Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

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Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by shadd21 » Sat Jan 31, 2015 8:53 pm

In Battle of Gods when Goku suggested fusing with Vegeta to battle Beerus, was he referring to Gogeta or Vegito?

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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by MajinMan » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:00 pm

He was most likely referring to Gogeta because I don't think he would want to permanently fuse.
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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:07 pm

Both? Becoming Vegetto is the only fusing we know for certain he's done in the movie's continuity, but Gogeta is also the only non permanent method of merging for him.

Though, if it helps, Beerus was also described in promotional material as the "strongest in the history of Z" up till that point, which would include Vegetto and exclude the Whis reveal (as that was meant to be a surprise at the end of the film).
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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by Rukura » Sat Jan 31, 2015 9:22 pm

Wasn't that line along the lines of Beerus being strong than when they had fused? Because given that it goes by the manga's continuity, he would definitely be refering to Vegetto.
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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by hleV » Sat Jan 31, 2015 11:11 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Beerus was also described in promotional material as the "strongest in the history of Z" up till that point, which would include Vegetto and exclude the Whis reveal (as that was meant to be a surprise at the end of the film).
You cannot exclude a confirmed DB characer. If Beerus is strongest in Z (meaning he is in that history himself), then Beerus isn't (who's been revealed at the same time as Beerus and was as much in the history of Z as him), and that is not true.

Gohan was originally intended to be using SS and not his ultimate form, Gotenks never went SS3, so it appears like BOG follows a different kind of history of Z, where Vegetto never existed to begin with and Fat Boo was perhaps defeated by SS Gotenks or something. Or Goku and Vegeta's Metamorian fusion.

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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:05 am

hleV wrote:You cannot exclude a confirmed DB character. If Beerus is strongest in Z (meaning he is in that history himself), then Beerus isn't (who's been revealed at the same time as Beerus and was as much in the history of Z as him), and that is not true.
Sure you can. It's called marketing. Billing Beerus as the strongest being in the history of Z creates hype for the film, and the reveal with with Whis is supposed to leave you with an interesting surprise at the end after you become invested and are looking forward to what will come next. It would honestly be asinine to promote the film as " Hey, Goku fights the second strongest being in the universe. You won't see the actual strongest do anything but sit around and eat food the whole film though!" right off the bat.
hleV wrote:Gohan was originally intended to be using SS and not his ultimate form, Gotenks never went SS3, so it appears like BOG follows a different kind of history of Z, where Vegetto never existed to begin with and Fat Boo was perhaps defeated by SS Gotenks or something. Or Goku and Vegeta's Metamorian fusion.
While it doesn't have to be included in the manga's continuity, the film itself includes said continuity and continues right off from it. Outside of Toriyama's writing it as continuation of the manga as if it were still serialized, the Special Edition reaffirms this with the recap at the beginning too. Regardless of what was planned, we got drunk Ultimate Gohan, and Gotenks not using SS3 is evidence of nothing. The character is almost exclusively a gag in Toriyama based works, and he consistently fails to make smart decisions pretty much every time he is formed.

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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by hleV » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:46 am

TheDevilsCorpse wrote: Sure you can. It's called marketing. Billing Beerus as the strongest being in the history of Z creates hype for the film, and the reveal with with Whis is supposed to leave you with an interesting surprise at the end after you become invested and are looking forward to what will come next.
It directly contradicts the facts, thus is unreliable. Simple as that.

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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by EmmaWinters » Sun Feb 01, 2015 12:57 am

hleV wrote:
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Sure you can. It's called marketing. Billing Beerus as the strongest being in the history of Z creates hype for the film, and the reveal with with Whis is supposed to leave you with an interesting surprise at the end after you become invested and are looking forward to what will come next.
It directly contradicts the facts, thus is unreliable. Simple as that.
Are you claiming that Whis isn't stronger than Beerus?
Or is your problem simply with misleading promotional claims?

Either way, you're being too literal.
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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by hleV » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:04 am

I'm claiming that the statement that Beerus is the strongest in the history of Z is contradictory, thus absolutely unreliable.

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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:46 am

It sounds like that it could be both Vegito and Gogeta. Goku would have fused into Vegito knowing that they can use the Dragon Balls to defuse Vegito if Vegito won.
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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:50 am

hleV wrote:I'm claiming that the statement that Beerus is the strongest in the history of Z is contradictory, thus absolutely unreliable.
It was completely reliable when it was made, at which point it was serving its purpose of hyping up the film and keeping us in the dark on a big reveal. Even now, it is still a valid claim. You just need to amend it with any new information made public knowledge after it was made. That's the entire point of retroactive continuity (the infamous retcon), even for the promotional material.
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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by hleV » Sun Feb 01, 2015 1:58 am

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:
hleV wrote:I'm claiming that the statement that Beerus is the strongest in the history of Z is contradictory, thus absolutely unreliable.
It was completely reliable when it was made, at which point it was serving its purpose of hyping up the film and keeping us in the dark on a big reveal. Even now, it is still a valid claim. You just need to amend it with any new information made public knowledge after it was made. That's the entire point of retroactive continuity (the infamous retcon), even for the promotional material.
So either the one who stated this was lying, or was ignorant, either way the statement is unreliable. You introduce characters A and B. You state that A is stronger than anyone in something. Something that he belongs himself to, thus belongs the B character as well. B turns out to be stronger. The statement is contradictory and is invalid after serving its marketing purpose. Now go back to providing non-contradictory and thus reliable evidence.

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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:08 am

I give up. You're too wrapped up in the literal statements and/or just don't seem to understand how marketing for something like this works.
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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by hleV » Sun Feb 01, 2015 2:12 am

You're too willing to consider unreliable evidence as evidence. Understanding how marketing "for something like this" works has nothing to do with anything. The marketing has worked, but the statement is not reliable for an obvious reason: it's not true.

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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by Babbu » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:07 am

Gogeta. They know the fusion technique works.

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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by Birusu16 » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:44 am

The best bet would be to go with Vegito since he's the only canon fusion between Goku and Vegeta and the film follows the manga continuity, not the anime. Either way, it doesn't matter because as TheDevilsCorpse said, Beerus was already stated to be the strongest being in the history of Z and that includes Vegito. Not to mention all of the other subtle hints in the movie confirming it.

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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by Puto » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:49 am

hleV wrote:I'm claiming that the statement that Beerus is the strongest in the history of Z is contradictory, thus absolutely unreliable.
'The history of Z' would mean what came before ('history' is past, Battle of Gods wasn't out yet so Whis wasn't part of the 'history' yet). Beerus is stronger than everyone that came before him.
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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by The Tori-bot » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:54 am

hleV wrote:Gohan was originally intended to be using SS and not his ultimate form, Gotenks never went SS3, so it appears like BOG follows a different kind of history of Z, where Vegetto never existed to begin with and Fat Boo was perhaps defeated by SS Gotenks or something. Or Goku and Vegeta's Metamorian fusion.
We see Goku kill Buu with the Genki-Dama in the extended version, so no.
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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by UltimateHammerBro » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:09 am

I thought they were referring to Gogeta (or more specifically, the possibility of doing the Fusion Dance).
It doesn't matter if Goku and Vegeta had never become Gogeta before in the timeline: Goku knew the Fusion Dance and could teach it to Vegeta.
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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by Hugo Boss » Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:17 am

Goku said more or less that even if he merges with Vegeta they still can't beat Beerus. Either Super Vegetto or Super Gogeta could fit that remark.

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