Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Sun Feb 01, 2015 9:54 am

Since he didn't specify, I would assume he's referring to both forms of fusion.

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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by JamesOwnz » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:00 am

Obviously Vegito.

Gogeta isn't canon

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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by Blade » Sun Feb 01, 2015 11:08 am

JamesOwnz wrote:Obviously Vegito.

Gogeta isn't canon
Given the lack of earrings to facilitate Vegetto, one can only assume he was referring to the Metamorize method. Whilst Gogeta may not have ever been depicted in Toriyama's own work, there's no saying that he wouldn't if Goku and Vegeta were to fuse via that method.
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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:34 pm

If he was referring to Fusion only, he would have said something like "Fusion probably wouldn't be enough, but we could try using the Potara!". So, he is referring to both.
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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by Low Tone G » Sun Feb 01, 2015 4:26 pm

Blade wrote:
JamesOwnz wrote:Obviously Vegito.

Gogeta isn't canon
Given the lack of earrings to facilitate Vegetto, one can only assume he was referring to the Metamorize method. Whilst Gogeta may not have ever been depicted in Toriyama's own work, there's no saying that he wouldn't if Goku and Vegeta were to fuse via that method.

As I mentioned many times, they didn't lack the potara earrings. The last pair still exists in the ear of Kibito Kai, only two pairs were used in the Buu saga, and 3 pairs used to be there! I'd go with Vegetto to be the one who Goku was talking about....
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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by JamesOwnz » Sun Feb 01, 2015 5:10 pm

Blade wrote:
JamesOwnz wrote:Obviously Vegito.

Gogeta isn't canon
Given the lack of earrings to facilitate Vegetto, one can only assume he was referring to the Metamorize method. Whilst Gogeta may not have ever been depicted in Toriyama's own work, there's no saying that he wouldn't if Goku and Vegeta were to fuse via that method.
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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by Friezacooler » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:25 pm

He is referring to both since both are fusions. Funny how in BOG vegeta rage boost implies he surpassed Gogeta, SSj Gotenks and Mystic Gohan lol.

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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Feb 01, 2015 6:32 pm

Goku was probably referring both using the Fusions Dance and the Potara earrings.

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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by Herms » Sun Feb 01, 2015 7:42 pm

The word Goku uses is 合体/gattai, which is a general term that could refer to either the Fusion dance or the Potara. In Japanese they use the actual English word "Fusion" (フュージョン) as the proper name for the Planet Metamor dance-style fusion (which obviously doesn't work so well as a proper name when you translate the whole thing into English, hence people having to coin "Fusion dance" to distinguish it from the other forms), so if Goku had used that, it would be a pretty open and shut case that he was thinking specifically about that one type of fusion and not any other. But he doesn't, so...probably he's thinking about fusion in general, meaning both Potara and capital-F Fusion. Certainly, if the great minds behind this movie intended Goku's monologue to indicate that one method of fusing would be no use against Beerus, while another would totally do the trick, they probably would have had Goku say something a little more specific than just "shit, even if I fused with Vegeta I couldn't win!"

Some people have said that Goku can't be talking about the Potara fusion since he doesn't have any Potara earrings on hand. Putting aside the possibility that he could go get some from Kaioshin, it doesn't really follow that if he can't use Potara fusion, he must not be thinking about Potara fusion. Back in the Boo arc, the Fusion dance is introduced when Goku goes "damn it, if Gohan or Vegeta had survived I could have fused with them", and later on during the final battle with Pure Boo, Goku complains about how he could have taken out Boo in an instant with the Potara, and regrets how he insisted on fighting without them. Goku may not be the brightest crayon, but he is capable of abstract thought. He can go "if this method were available, would it beat this guy?", even if the method in question isn't actually available.
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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by Babbu » Sun Feb 08, 2015 6:46 pm

JamesOwnz wrote:Obviously Vegito.

Gogeta isn't canon
But Gotenks is. Which means the fusion dance is canon. Which means it is something Goku and Vegeta can do together.

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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by GokuRules987 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:09 am

I don't think Gogeta is even possible, because they both have different heights, it could cause some kind of dis balance. The potara earrings on the other hand can be fused with literally anything, like when Goku was planning on using Mr.Satan too fuse with him. Of course if they had fused with potara earrings they would have most likely won if vegito went ssj2 or 3 but then they would have probably needed either shenron or majin buu help in order too unfuse them together again.
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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Tue Feb 10, 2015 1:25 am

Toriyama originally intended to have Goku and Vegeta use the dance form of fusion, but invented the Potara so that he could do something different from DBZ Movie 12 (which he was aware of prior to Vegetto's debut). So their height difference isn't big enough that Toriyama finds it to be a problem for the technique.
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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:26 am

Vegeto because Gogeta never existed in the canon/manga continuity.
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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 3:39 am

Not sure how the Japanese dub says it but in the English dub Goku says "The only way I know how to get stronger would be to fuse with Vegeta again".

Since he said again and the only time he fused with Vegeta in the manga continuity was Vegetto, I would assume that means he was referring to Vegetto and not Gogeta.
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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:09 am

Folks, please be sure to at least read some of the other post contributions before making your own.

Things like "I don't know what was said in Japanese, but..." and "Something-something-something CANON..." have already been fully addressed.
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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by Tzigi » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:51 am

I don't see any problem with the idea that they could've practiced the Fusion dance off-screen - it's not like there's no precedent for such last-minute reveals in DB (e.g. Gotenks achieving SSJ3). But on the other hand getting new Potara isn't that difficult - just think of Gohan's arrival in Kaioshinkai. His Potara appears out of thin air with his clothes when Kibito uses his Clothes Beam:
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So if Beerus could wait for the Super Saiyan God ritual to take place, he could very well wait for Kibitoshin to arrive and conjure new Potara for Goku and Vegeta.

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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by UpFromTheSkies » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:54 am

It's irrelevant that Gogeta isn't canon. Even if Goku and Vegeta had never fused at all, Goku's comment would still make sense because he's aware of fusion and how much power increase it provides.

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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Tue Feb 10, 2015 9:24 am

Tzigi wrote:But on the other hand getting new Potara isn't that difficult - just think of Gohan's arrival in Kaioshinkai. His Potara appears out of thin air with his clothes when Kibito uses his Clothes Beam
I don't think Kibito made real Potara for Gohan, they should be normal earings that look like the Potara (like Zarbon's). How would Kibito create real Potara when he doesn't even know they exist?
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Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by Tzigi » Tue Feb 10, 2015 10:22 am

DBZGTKOSDH wrote:
Tzigi wrote:But on the other hand getting new Potara isn't that difficult - just think of Gohan's arrival in Kaioshinkai. His Potara appears out of thin air with his clothes when Kibito uses his Clothes Beam
I don't think Kibito made real Potara for Gohan, they should be normal earings that look like the Potara (like Zarbon's). How would Kibito create real Potara when he doesn't even know they exist?
Now that's multiplying entities (and - in my opinion - without necessity): why should we assume that Kibito creates a standard Kaioshinkai-dwellers uniform but instead of Potara he creates "Potara-look-a-likes"? Still, you're entitled to your opinion but there's no way either of us can prove theirs.

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Re: Was Goku talking about Vegito or Gogeta in BOG?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Tue Feb 10, 2015 12:02 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote:Vegeto because Gogeta never existed in the canon/manga continuity.
Vegeta knows the fusion dance though. He was watching Goku and the others in the after life. Gogeta could exist in the manga continuity. Toriyama's Gogeta would have been more similar how SSj4 Gogeta was then the super serious Gogeta that we got in Fusion Reborn.
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