http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carole_Bos ... bliography
Looking at her published works it's easy to see why she'd be extremely offended by anything that looks even remotely like racism. And her body of works doesn't suggest that Japanese culture is something she's studied very much of.
Jesus, how long has it been since her article came out? 15 years huh?
"Yeah, Daizenshuu 7 and various later guides say that Popo and Karin are beings from the afterlife who were dispatched to Earth to help out the various Gods of Earth, from one generation of god to the next. "
Wish I could ask Toriyama for more specific details. I mean, like, did somebody in the Afterlife make Mr. Popo that way or are there a whole separate race of Mr. Popos all over the universe or something tasked with "helping out God" just like there are with Namekians? (who for some reason seem to be favored as being made gods- at least on earth)
Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
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Re: Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
Sean Schemmel is THE MAN! :)
Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"
Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"
Re: Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
Yeah, Mr. Popo isn't even a human being.rereboy wrote:In the case of Mr. Popo, I think people need to chill. He's not a representation of anything, and he has nothing to do (design or otherwise) with the actually black people that appear in the manga.Cure Dragon 255 wrote:If people stereotyped and mocked you, would you be so willing to be "Chilling"?
Over-sensitivity is a problem, just like lack of sensitivity is a problem.
Trans rights, now!
Re: Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
Since he's from the Afterlife (the good part of it) doesn't that essentially make him an angelic being?SonEric84 wrote:Yeah, Mr. Popo isn't even a human being.rereboy wrote:In the case of Mr. Popo, I think people need to chill. He's not a representation of anything, and he has nothing to do (design or otherwise) with the actually black people that appear in the manga.Cure Dragon 255 wrote:If people stereotyped and mocked you, would you be so willing to be "Chilling"?
Over-sensitivity is a problem, just like lack of sensitivity is a problem.
Sean Schemmel is THE MAN! :)
Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"
Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"
Re: Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
Or, she was actually offended by what she saw and her concerns are actually legit and worth listening to?GS7X7 wrote:Contrary to what Carole Weatherby might claim to drum up page views
I asked one of my Japanese friends about this once - he was born and raised here in Japan - and he told me that at the time he didn't think anything of it. Why? Because in Dragon Ball you have all these people with various skin colors - white, orange, green, purple, red, etc. - and as far as he was concerned "black" was just another color the artists had in their arsenal. So why not use it?GS7X7 wrote:What did the average Japanese tv-watcher and manga-reader think upon being introduced to Mr. Popo?
It doesn't matter what Rougela's based on. Yuki-onna, ganguro, Zwarte Piet, Yamauba...no matter what the people who created her were going for, the end result is "creature that looks like a racist caricature used to belittle and dehumanize people of color." No amount of explaining will change that.eledoremassis02 wrote:However, I have an issue with Jynx because there is a fair amount of evidence that she might be based on Yamauba and Gangoro.
Webmaster of Dogasu's Backpack. Last updated on June 9th, 2022
Re: Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
From what I had seen/ read, I do believe that Mr. Popo is a genie-like being. He also appears to be the assistant to both Kami-sama and Dende.
Always saw his colouring as a colour choice, not as an offensive stereotype.
Always saw his colouring as a colour choice, not as an offensive stereotype.
Re: Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
"Or, she was actually offended by what she saw and her concerns are actually legit and worth listening to?"
Actually I will agree with you that she was offended and I doubt she expected to become famous from the article. We all have complete hindsight about how famous the article became but, at the time she had no idea. She does seem like the type of person to be very extremely offended by stuff.
"It doesn't matter what Rougela's based on. Yuki-onna, ganguro, Zwarte Piet, Yamauba...no matter what the people who created her were going for, the end result is "creature that looks like a racist caricature used to belittle and dehumanize people of color." No amount of explaining will change that."
http://yuyuhakusho.wikia.com/wiki/Kazemaru
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
I gotta disagree with you there though. Westerners should take the time to understand foreign concepts and be informed rather than forcibly censoring/editing stuff we don't properly understand that looks like something we find offense by sheer coincidence. A better solution to Kazemaru would have been including a disclaimer at the beginning of the episode explaining what the symbol on his head meant and that it had nothing do with Nazism, and showing how it was different in design from Hitler's and not even a true Nazi swastika, which would have informed people and erased ammunition for people to be offended by. (I think his usage of the symbol was for "good luck" because he's obsessed with it?) The original symbol had existed for thousands of years and had holy connotations to many religions long before Hitler appropriated it for about two decades for his own agenda. Just removing it completely from YYH really did nothing but help to keep westerners ignorant of its real origins. The original swastika has been around since 10,000-3,000 B.C. and has nothing to do with racism, and Hitler's "version" of it is completely altered in design and symbolism. There is a difference between the original Asian swastika and the Nazi swastika, and it'd be nice if companies would try to educate people on the differences.
Of course, it's a lot easier to simply erase it and have zero discussion then it is to take the time to actually educate people on the issue. Same with Jynx. It was easier for her to have a kneejerk reaction about Jynx then to bother lifting a finger researching Japanese culture to try to understand Jynx's design, and it was easier for Nintendo just to bow down and censor it rather than trying to explain anything. I'd have a lot more respect for her if she's actually done the research for her article rather than blindly applying her logic and beliefs to the Japanese creators of Jynx while falsely accusing them of going out of their way to mock and insult black people. Has she ever apologized for that? No, I don't think so and I doubt she would ever would since it'd require her admitting to being wrong about something.
Carole Weatherby's ignorance of Japanese culture and her kneejerk reaction to go straight for her deck of race cards should NOT trump facts, nor should Jynx have been censored just to please her ignorant belief that Jynx had ANYTHING to do with black people at all! Her article was extremely sloppy in fact because she felt entitled to do zero research on the subject she pontificated upon. Much to her great pleasure, Nintendo folded like a house of (Pokemon) cards since they don't like controversy of any sort, and she was able to idiotically take great pleasure in "doing a great deed" by censoring something that had nothing to do with black people or racism.
Maybe for her next article she should write about how the character Kazemaru promotes Neo-Nazism and racism, while insisting that Hindu and Buddhist religions should outlaw the original swastika in Asia so she won't get offended if she ever bothers to travel abroad there to learn about their cultures. (The last part of which will never happen, of course.)
Actually I will agree with you that she was offended and I doubt she expected to become famous from the article. We all have complete hindsight about how famous the article became but, at the time she had no idea. She does seem like the type of person to be very extremely offended by stuff.
"It doesn't matter what Rougela's based on. Yuki-onna, ganguro, Zwarte Piet, Yamauba...no matter what the people who created her were going for, the end result is "creature that looks like a racist caricature used to belittle and dehumanize people of color." No amount of explaining will change that."
http://yuyuhakusho.wikia.com/wiki/Kazemaru
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
I gotta disagree with you there though. Westerners should take the time to understand foreign concepts and be informed rather than forcibly censoring/editing stuff we don't properly understand that looks like something we find offense by sheer coincidence. A better solution to Kazemaru would have been including a disclaimer at the beginning of the episode explaining what the symbol on his head meant and that it had nothing do with Nazism, and showing how it was different in design from Hitler's and not even a true Nazi swastika, which would have informed people and erased ammunition for people to be offended by. (I think his usage of the symbol was for "good luck" because he's obsessed with it?) The original symbol had existed for thousands of years and had holy connotations to many religions long before Hitler appropriated it for about two decades for his own agenda. Just removing it completely from YYH really did nothing but help to keep westerners ignorant of its real origins. The original swastika has been around since 10,000-3,000 B.C. and has nothing to do with racism, and Hitler's "version" of it is completely altered in design and symbolism. There is a difference between the original Asian swastika and the Nazi swastika, and it'd be nice if companies would try to educate people on the differences.
Of course, it's a lot easier to simply erase it and have zero discussion then it is to take the time to actually educate people on the issue. Same with Jynx. It was easier for her to have a kneejerk reaction about Jynx then to bother lifting a finger researching Japanese culture to try to understand Jynx's design, and it was easier for Nintendo just to bow down and censor it rather than trying to explain anything. I'd have a lot more respect for her if she's actually done the research for her article rather than blindly applying her logic and beliefs to the Japanese creators of Jynx while falsely accusing them of going out of their way to mock and insult black people. Has she ever apologized for that? No, I don't think so and I doubt she would ever would since it'd require her admitting to being wrong about something.
Carole Weatherby's ignorance of Japanese culture and her kneejerk reaction to go straight for her deck of race cards should NOT trump facts, nor should Jynx have been censored just to please her ignorant belief that Jynx had ANYTHING to do with black people at all! Her article was extremely sloppy in fact because she felt entitled to do zero research on the subject she pontificated upon. Much to her great pleasure, Nintendo folded like a house of (Pokemon) cards since they don't like controversy of any sort, and she was able to idiotically take great pleasure in "doing a great deed" by censoring something that had nothing to do with black people or racism.
Maybe for her next article she should write about how the character Kazemaru promotes Neo-Nazism and racism, while insisting that Hindu and Buddhist religions should outlaw the original swastika in Asia so she won't get offended if she ever bothers to travel abroad there to learn about their cultures. (The last part of which will never happen, of course.)
Sean Schemmel is THE MAN! :)
Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"
Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"
Re: Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
She's also a black woman who grew up in the South in the 1950s. I think she's absolutely entitled to feel the way she does.GS7X7 wrote:She does seem like the type of person to be very extremely offended by stuff.
And Japanese manga artists / video game programmers should take the time to understand that blackface is frowned upon abroad. It goes both ways.GS7X7 wrote:Westerners should take the time to understand foreign concepts
I don't think Rougela's design had any malice behind it. Mr. Popo, I'm not as sure...Toriyama doesn't exactly have the best track record with this sort of thing. Either way, when someone points out that your character design makes people uncomfortable, it's only natural to want to change it to make your franchise more inclusive. With Rougela it's changing her skin color, both in Japan and abroad. With Mr. Popo, it's changing the lips and / or skin color. I see it more as "Oh, I can see why you feel that way, we didn't think of that when we made him / her" than a desire to completely shut down discussion and keep everyone ignorant.
Webmaster of Dogasu's Backpack. Last updated on June 9th, 2022
Re: Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
"With Mr. Popo, it's changing the lips and / or skin color. I see it more as "Oh, I can see why you feel that way, we didn't think of that when we made him / her" than a desire to completely shut down discussion and keep everyone ignorant."
I gotta disagree because Nintendo made zero attempt to clarify Jynx's origins after her article- they pretty much just said nothing and quietly dyed Jynx's skin in order to please her and anyone that agreed with her.
As for her, I know she's had a tough life but she only glanced at Jynx from her perspective. Japan never had Jim Crow or the KKK and they've never passed laws specifically aimed against repressing blacks specifically. Japan's foreign population is only about 1.5%- of that, blacks in Japan constituting a much smaller number- probably not even .15%, regardless of Azrael being the most famous gaijin in Japan. Jynx's origins are based on a Japanese myth which predates any African man or woman setting foot on American soil by over 1,000 years. If she had researched it thoroughly then I think she would have been much more understanding towards Jynx and wouldn't have been so offended because she would have realized that Jynx wasn't created to insult and demean black people. But because her article didn't research Japanese culture at all, that's why she she took on such a hostile and condescending stance towards Nintendo and made so many accusations of them being deliberately racist.
I gotta disagree because Nintendo made zero attempt to clarify Jynx's origins after her article- they pretty much just said nothing and quietly dyed Jynx's skin in order to please her and anyone that agreed with her.
As for her, I know she's had a tough life but she only glanced at Jynx from her perspective. Japan never had Jim Crow or the KKK and they've never passed laws specifically aimed against repressing blacks specifically. Japan's foreign population is only about 1.5%- of that, blacks in Japan constituting a much smaller number- probably not even .15%, regardless of Azrael being the most famous gaijin in Japan. Jynx's origins are based on a Japanese myth which predates any African man or woman setting foot on American soil by over 1,000 years. If she had researched it thoroughly then I think she would have been much more understanding towards Jynx and wouldn't have been so offended because she would have realized that Jynx wasn't created to insult and demean black people. But because her article didn't research Japanese culture at all, that's why she she took on such a hostile and condescending stance towards Nintendo and made so many accusations of them being deliberately racist.
Sean Schemmel is THE MAN! :)
Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"
Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"
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Cure Dragon 255
- Born 'n Bred Here
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Re: Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
So now she is based on Japanese myth instead of the whole Ganguro thing? I love you Mr Great Saiyaman but you seem to be awfully too defensive of an offensive joke. Toriyama may have not intended to offend yes, but Mr Popo is still a racist caricature. It doesnt really matter that he wasnt intended to be human, its still a caricature and still wrong.
Spoiler:
Re: Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
I haven't changed course on Jynx. On the first page of the topic I said, "She/It? was a combination of a Japanese folk demon (Yamauba) and a parody of the "Ganguro girl" craze." I didn't bring up ganguro again in every single post mentioning Jynx but that doesn't mean I stopped thinking ganguro still applied to the character creation.
Anyway, I'll just sum up my views-
1. Mr. Popo was based on an offensive caricature, sambo, but not created with deliberate malice. That said, what to do about him? I'm against censoring him but it's not too big a deal if there's an uncut version. Him being blue in Nicktoons is kinda dumb (he was a black dude on Cartoon Network for almost a decade and it was never that big a deal to anyone until 4Kids got their hands on it) but it doesn't effect the dvd's. The Viz manga is a different story- they censor COUNTLESS things in various mangas- like violence, profanity, revealing outfits in One Piece. They also add in Americanized jokes in places like Naruto (3 stooges joke early on). They've been censoring DB manga for nearly a decade since they started changing Android 16's attack name. I don't mind them censoring their manga as long as they offer an uncut version, but Viz simply censors numerous little things without bothering to tell anyone.
The problem is, Viz manga gives you ZERO reason to buy their products instead of going with pirate online versions. I'd rather own an authentic manga than some computer scans, but I'm not going to shell out for a censored manga designed not to be remotely offensive to anyone. Both One Piece and FMA have featured censorship of crucifixes. The main character in FMA proudly and defiantly declares his atheism and hatred for religion early on- what was Viz expecting when they decided to license it?!
http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Hell%27s_Flash
When I say I want an uncensored version none of this is to say I think "sambo is awesome" or "chibi Goku's penis is awesome" or anything like that- just that I feel original works should be left alone. I'm an adult and can make up my own mind about what to support (ie, I don't really like Tokyo Tribes) without Viz editing every last thing that might offend any group.
2. Jynx is a different story since it wasn't based on anything having to do with sambo or anything racist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8X3l_Tt8VE
Yes, Popo wasn't created with malice but sambo is offensive so I guess I can't fuss too much if they want to offer a censored/uncensored product of him. Maybe I've softened a bit on Popo censorship over the course of the topic, I dunno. But since Jynx wasn't created based on anything offensive I'm totally against Jynx being censored 100%. I don't think a coincidental similarity (like with the dude in YYH or that Buddhist symbol on a Pokemon card) should be grounds for censorship, but rather an opportunity for a teaching moment.
Whew. Anyway, that's the last I'm going to say on this topic, that's my two cents.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYb8auYPflM
Correction, I thought it was Nicktoons cause of this video.)
Anyway, I'll just sum up my views-
1. Mr. Popo was based on an offensive caricature, sambo, but not created with deliberate malice. That said, what to do about him? I'm against censoring him but it's not too big a deal if there's an uncut version. Him being blue in Nicktoons is kinda dumb (he was a black dude on Cartoon Network for almost a decade and it was never that big a deal to anyone until 4Kids got their hands on it) but it doesn't effect the dvd's. The Viz manga is a different story- they censor COUNTLESS things in various mangas- like violence, profanity, revealing outfits in One Piece. They also add in Americanized jokes in places like Naruto (3 stooges joke early on). They've been censoring DB manga for nearly a decade since they started changing Android 16's attack name. I don't mind them censoring their manga as long as they offer an uncut version, but Viz simply censors numerous little things without bothering to tell anyone.
The problem is, Viz manga gives you ZERO reason to buy their products instead of going with pirate online versions. I'd rather own an authentic manga than some computer scans, but I'm not going to shell out for a censored manga designed not to be remotely offensive to anyone. Both One Piece and FMA have featured censorship of crucifixes. The main character in FMA proudly and defiantly declares his atheism and hatred for religion early on- what was Viz expecting when they decided to license it?!
http://dragonball.wikia.com/wiki/Hell%27s_Flash
When I say I want an uncensored version none of this is to say I think "sambo is awesome" or "chibi Goku's penis is awesome" or anything like that- just that I feel original works should be left alone. I'm an adult and can make up my own mind about what to support (ie, I don't really like Tokyo Tribes) without Viz editing every last thing that might offend any group.
2. Jynx is a different story since it wasn't based on anything having to do with sambo or anything racist.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8X3l_Tt8VE
Yes, Popo wasn't created with malice but sambo is offensive so I guess I can't fuss too much if they want to offer a censored/uncensored product of him. Maybe I've softened a bit on Popo censorship over the course of the topic, I dunno. But since Jynx wasn't created based on anything offensive I'm totally against Jynx being censored 100%. I don't think a coincidental similarity (like with the dude in YYH or that Buddhist symbol on a Pokemon card) should be grounds for censorship, but rather an opportunity for a teaching moment.
Whew. Anyway, that's the last I'm going to say on this topic, that's my two cents.
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LYb8auYPflM
Correction, I thought it was Nicktoons cause of this video.)
Last edited by GS7X7 on Fri Feb 13, 2015 10:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sean Schemmel is THE MAN! :)
Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"
Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"
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Cure Dragon 255
- Born 'n Bred Here
- Posts: 5123
- Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 5:23 pm
Re: Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
He wasnt blue in Nicktoons what are you talking about? I'm sorry to say but I'm losing respect for you Mr Great Saiyaman. I hate censorship, and it isnt even the right response to racist caricatures. They should have uncut avalaible to those who want it. But you are way too defensive over a caricature and that's just not okay.
Also, if she REALLY studied Japan's history like you suggest I doubt she'd change her mind, in fact, she'd be even more horrified and appalled and NOT because "She's easily offended".I wonder if YOU did any research on Japan's relations yourself.
Also, if she REALLY studied Japan's history like you suggest I doubt she'd change her mind, in fact, she'd be even more horrified and appalled and NOT because "She's easily offended".I wonder if YOU did any research on Japan's relations yourself.
Spoiler:
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EmmaWinters
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Re: Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
He was blue when Kai aired on Toonzai, not Nicktoons.Cure Dragon 255 wrote:He wasnt blue in Nicktoons what are you talking about? I'm sorry to say but I'm losing respect for you Mr Great Saiyaman.
He prefers that the character be portrayed accurately; he isn't being defensive.Cure Dragon 255 wrote:But you are way too defensive over a caricature and that's just not okay.
Disagreeing with a company's decision to censor Popo's character is his right.
Why does every mention of Popo devolve into TFS quotes and arguments over his offensiveness?
「恨むんならてめえの運命を恨むんだな··· このオレのように···」
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Cure Dragon 255
- Born 'n Bred Here
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- Joined: Thu May 03, 2012 5:23 pm
Re: Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
No, he literally is saying that black people should not be offended over Mr Popo. I was willing to drop the issue when it was agreed that censorship was wrong but he keeps on saying Mr Popo is okay and that black people shouldnt get so offended.
Spoiler:
Re: Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
That's not what I'm saying.
"When I say I want an uncensored version none of this is to say I think "sambo is awesome" or "chibi Goku's penis is awesome" or anything like that- just that I feel original works should be left alone. I'm an adult and can make up my own mind about what to support (ie, I don't really like Tokyo Tribes) without Viz editing every last thing that might offend any group.
2. Jynx is a different story since it wasn't based on anything having to do with sambo or anything racist.
Yes, Popo wasn't created with malice but sambo is offensive so I guess I can't fuss too much if they want to offer a censored/uncensored product of him. Maybe I've softened a bit on Popo censorship over the course of the topic, I dunno. But since Jynx wasn't created based on anything offensive I'm totally against Jynx being censored 100%."
I'm not really angry at Carole for fussing about Popo but for making up a bunch of false reasons behind Jynx's creation and then insisting that the character was created to be insulting and demeaning towards blacks.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2000/0504/p9s1.html
"Two such characters appear in "Pokmon" and "Dragonball Z," wildly popular cartoons and digital games from Nintendo and Sony, respectively."
It's not a one-time typo but done repeatedly! She didn't even bother learning how to spell the word "Pokemon" correctly before writing that article, illustrating her complete lack of research into Jynx.
I never said "no black people should be offended about Popo" but I am defending Jynx though.
"Why does every mention of Popo devolve into TFS quotes and arguments over his offensiveness?"
Because although everybody loves Toriyama and Dragon Ball, Mr. Popo did have a bad design off the old sambo stereotype. Even if Toriyama didn't make it to offend anyone (most people in Japan aren't even aware that sambo is offensive) the fact still remains that Mr. Popo's there with his outdated sambo design, and that's always going to be an uncomfortable subject. He's not someone that can be brushed aside like a minor character in a handful of Bugs Bunny or Tom and Jerry cartoons, he's a major character in hundreds of episodes in the most popular anime on the planet, (unless Naruto/One Piece/Pokemon surpassed it at this point) so he's always going to be there and that's always going to cause controversy.
This topic's not unique. People are always uncomfortable when the subject of race or racism comes up, even Chris Psaros got called a racist by several people based on remarks he made kinda/sorta defending Mr. Popo ages ago. (about 15 or so to be exact- he made them around the time Carole's article first became famous) Fifteen years from now there'll probably be another topic about Mr. Popo just like this one. The main psychological reason people defend Popo is because they love Toriyama and Dragon Ball and don't want to associate their memories of it with anything unpleasant and thus feel very protective of it so they want to find some way to justify Popo, not because they're racists or in love with sambo anything.
Mr. Popo was designed with naivete, not malice, and that's about the best that can be said about the design. If Toriyama had known that sambo was really offensive to a lot of people than I don't think he ever would have used that design. I think Japan wised up on sambo not being cool when it comes to manga/anime- Naruto has a whole ninja village of black dudes and there's not one sambo design anywhere in there. Even the (godawful, absolutely horrible, mindnumbingly stupid) Tokyo Tribes doesn't employ any sambo, so much as a flurry of lefthanded "tributes" to gangster rap.
Look, I'm personally against censoring him and censorship in general but that doesn't mean I love sambo designs or hate black people or anything and I never said I don't think anyone should be offended by his design. That's all I gotta say.
"When I say I want an uncensored version none of this is to say I think "sambo is awesome" or "chibi Goku's penis is awesome" or anything like that- just that I feel original works should be left alone. I'm an adult and can make up my own mind about what to support (ie, I don't really like Tokyo Tribes) without Viz editing every last thing that might offend any group.
2. Jynx is a different story since it wasn't based on anything having to do with sambo or anything racist.
Yes, Popo wasn't created with malice but sambo is offensive so I guess I can't fuss too much if they want to offer a censored/uncensored product of him. Maybe I've softened a bit on Popo censorship over the course of the topic, I dunno. But since Jynx wasn't created based on anything offensive I'm totally against Jynx being censored 100%."
I'm not really angry at Carole for fussing about Popo but for making up a bunch of false reasons behind Jynx's creation and then insisting that the character was created to be insulting and demeaning towards blacks.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2000/0504/p9s1.html
"Two such characters appear in "Pokmon" and "Dragonball Z," wildly popular cartoons and digital games from Nintendo and Sony, respectively."
It's not a one-time typo but done repeatedly! She didn't even bother learning how to spell the word "Pokemon" correctly before writing that article, illustrating her complete lack of research into Jynx.
I never said "no black people should be offended about Popo" but I am defending Jynx though.
"Why does every mention of Popo devolve into TFS quotes and arguments over his offensiveness?"
Because although everybody loves Toriyama and Dragon Ball, Mr. Popo did have a bad design off the old sambo stereotype. Even if Toriyama didn't make it to offend anyone (most people in Japan aren't even aware that sambo is offensive) the fact still remains that Mr. Popo's there with his outdated sambo design, and that's always going to be an uncomfortable subject. He's not someone that can be brushed aside like a minor character in a handful of Bugs Bunny or Tom and Jerry cartoons, he's a major character in hundreds of episodes in the most popular anime on the planet, (unless Naruto/One Piece/Pokemon surpassed it at this point) so he's always going to be there and that's always going to cause controversy.
This topic's not unique. People are always uncomfortable when the subject of race or racism comes up, even Chris Psaros got called a racist by several people based on remarks he made kinda/sorta defending Mr. Popo ages ago. (about 15 or so to be exact- he made them around the time Carole's article first became famous) Fifteen years from now there'll probably be another topic about Mr. Popo just like this one. The main psychological reason people defend Popo is because they love Toriyama and Dragon Ball and don't want to associate their memories of it with anything unpleasant and thus feel very protective of it so they want to find some way to justify Popo, not because they're racists or in love with sambo anything.
Mr. Popo was designed with naivete, not malice, and that's about the best that can be said about the design. If Toriyama had known that sambo was really offensive to a lot of people than I don't think he ever would have used that design. I think Japan wised up on sambo not being cool when it comes to manga/anime- Naruto has a whole ninja village of black dudes and there's not one sambo design anywhere in there. Even the (godawful, absolutely horrible, mindnumbingly stupid) Tokyo Tribes doesn't employ any sambo, so much as a flurry of lefthanded "tributes" to gangster rap.
Look, I'm personally against censoring him and censorship in general but that doesn't mean I love sambo designs or hate black people or anything and I never said I don't think anyone should be offended by his design. That's all I gotta say.
Sean Schemmel is THE MAN! :)
Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"
Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"
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Herms
- Kanzenshuu Admin Emeritus
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Re: Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
Just to repeat myself a bit, there's this fan idea floating around that Popo is some sort of genie, but (near as I can tell) it's not actually based on anything besides the fact that Popo kind of looks like a genie. Which I guess isn't totally illogical or anything, but at the same time, Chiaotzu looks exactly like a Chinese vampire and it's not anything more than a random joke on Toriyama's part. He's not actually an undead creature, at least not any more so than Yamcha or anyone else repeatedly brought back to life with the dragon balls. In the same way, the fact that Popo wears generic Arabic clothing and cruises around on a flying carpet is most likely Toriyama relying on stock imagery (with some rather unfortunate racial connotations). Popo's probably not actually supposed to be a literal genie; he's never referred to as such in the series itself or any guides or whatnot. Unless by "genie" we just mean a supernatural creature with magical abilities, in which case he fits the bill (but then, so does Piccolo). But if we're using "genie" to mean anything particularly specific, then there's no real evidence Popo is one. Mostly because there's practically zero information on Popo's nature or background, apart from the whole "guy from the afterlife sent to assist God of Earth" thing from the guides.Dolciano wrote:From what I had seen/ read, I do believe that Mr. Popo is a genie-like being.
Kanzenshuu: Is that place still around?
Sometimes, I tweet things
We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.
Sometimes, I tweet things
We might, if they screamed all the time, for no good reason.
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EmmaWinters
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Re: Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
I see this mentioned semi-frequently. Are the quotes for Popo and Karin available anywhere?Herms wrote:...Daizenshuu 7 and various later guides say that Popo and Karin are beings from the afterlife who were dispatched to Earth to help out the various Gods of Earth, from one generation of god to the next.
I'd love to have then on hand the next time I need to answer this question.
I checked Kanzenshuu's translation section, but only saw Toriyama's messages & an interview.
「恨むんならてめえの運命を恨むんだな··· このオレのように···」
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Daimo-Rukiri
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Re: Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
Well minus the pecking order, it's something we'll never know as either Toriyama just forgot or he had no reasoning behind POPO to start with.
Steam: Rukiri89 | uPlay: Rukiri89 | Origin: XxRukiriXx | Xbox LIVE: XxRUKIRIxX89 | PSN: Ericks1989 | Nintendo Network ID: Rukiri
Dragon Ball Hero's Spirit development blog - An Action-RPG coming soon to monitor near you!
https://dragonball-hs.tumblr.com/
Dragon Ball Hero's Spirit development blog - An Action-RPG coming soon to monitor near you!
https://dragonball-hs.tumblr.com/
Re: Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
I'm not sure why that should all be on her, though. "She should have done research until she's no longer offended by a cartoon character in blackface" sound like victim-blaming to me.GS7X7 wrote:But because her article didn't research Japanese culture at all
And, again, where was this so-called research when the Japanese designers made up the characters? Why are they absolved of any and all responsibility?
While I don't agree with all of the specifics of Ms. Weatherford's article - including the idea that these characters were purposefully created to demean black people - I think the overall sentiment of "holy shit why are there blackface characters in cartoons airing in the 21st century" is spot-on. If she hadn't spoken out about it then somebody else would have.
You're also assuming, by the way, that Rougela is definitely based on Yamauba when that's never officially been stated by anyone involved with the franchise. Anyone who says "Jynx isn't based on racist stereotypes, it's based on ___!" is just making educated guesses.
Unintentional racism is still racism.Even if Toriyama didn't make it to offend anyone
Plus, Toriyama doesn't exactly have the best track record. The very first chapter of Dr. Slump features a duo of racist charicatures that ended up getting censored in the Viz release.
Spoiler:
At best we can say Mr. Toriyama is incredibly ignorant. At best.
Webmaster of Dogasu's Backpack. Last updated on June 9th, 2022
Re: Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8X3l_Tt8VE
Did you watch the Game Theory video on Jynx, specifically the part where there's a consistent focus on Jynx dancing? There's your evidence. Look I get it, you said it wasn't based on Yamauba years ago and don't want to admit you were wrong, it's a pride thing and I've been there and everyone's been there before at some point in their life. People make mistakes and don't want to admit they made em but, nobody bats 100%. It's no big deal man.
"And, again, where was this so-called research when the Japanese designers made up the characters? Why are they absolved of any and all responsibility?"
"http://yuyuhakusho.wikia.com/wiki/Kazemaru
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
I gotta disagree with you there though. Westerners should take the time to understand foreign concepts and be informed rather than forcibly censoring/editing stuff we don't properly understand that looks like something we find offense by sheer coincidence. A better solution to Kazemaru would have been including a disclaimer at the beginning of the episode explaining what the symbol on his head meant and that it had nothing do with Nazism, and showing how it was different in design from Hitler's and not even a true Nazi swastika, which would have informed people and erased ammunition for people to be offended by. (I think his usage of the symbol was for "good luck" because he's obsessed with it?) The original symbol had existed for thousands of years and had holy connotations to many religions long before Hitler appropriated it for about two decades for his own agenda. Just removing it completely from YYH really did nothing but help to keep westerners ignorant of its real origins. The original swastika has been around since 10,000-3,000 B.C. and has nothing to do with racism, and Hitler's "version" of it is completely altered in design and symbolism. There is a difference between the original Asian swastika and the Nazi swastika, and it'd be nice if companies would try to educate people on the differences.
Of course, it's a lot easier to simply erase it and have zero discussion then it is to take the time to actually educate people on the issue."
Jynx was based mainly on a Japanese myth with probably some then-contemporary ganguro thrown in there. Just because it coincidentally resembles something offensive doesn't mean it should be censored, nor should Buddhists holy symbols be censored either- in my opinion. In your opinion it should be, along with every last Buddhist swastika in every last manga and anime. Naruto, One Piece, anything with the symbol needs to get rid of it to avoid offending the confused Carole Weatherbys of the world who get on their high horses and attack the product without bothering to try to understand it.
To me, if people are offended? Well, then just explain it to them with some kind of disclaimer. Educate them on the Buddhist good luck symbol and explain it has millenial-long history that predates Hitler appropriating it. Ichigo Kurosaki isn't swinging around a "Nazi sword" when he goes bankai, it's a symbols with a much greater meaning. It'd be great if people could understand the difference between an actual Nazi swastika and the Buddhist swastika, but just censoring Buddhist swastikas nonstop will ensure that most people never learn the difference.
Did you watch the Game Theory video on Jynx, specifically the part where there's a consistent focus on Jynx dancing? There's your evidence. Look I get it, you said it wasn't based on Yamauba years ago and don't want to admit you were wrong, it's a pride thing and I've been there and everyone's been there before at some point in their life. People make mistakes and don't want to admit they made em but, nobody bats 100%. It's no big deal man.
"And, again, where was this so-called research when the Japanese designers made up the characters? Why are they absolved of any and all responsibility?"
"http://yuyuhakusho.wikia.com/wiki/Kazemaru
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swastika
I gotta disagree with you there though. Westerners should take the time to understand foreign concepts and be informed rather than forcibly censoring/editing stuff we don't properly understand that looks like something we find offense by sheer coincidence. A better solution to Kazemaru would have been including a disclaimer at the beginning of the episode explaining what the symbol on his head meant and that it had nothing do with Nazism, and showing how it was different in design from Hitler's and not even a true Nazi swastika, which would have informed people and erased ammunition for people to be offended by. (I think his usage of the symbol was for "good luck" because he's obsessed with it?) The original symbol had existed for thousands of years and had holy connotations to many religions long before Hitler appropriated it for about two decades for his own agenda. Just removing it completely from YYH really did nothing but help to keep westerners ignorant of its real origins. The original swastika has been around since 10,000-3,000 B.C. and has nothing to do with racism, and Hitler's "version" of it is completely altered in design and symbolism. There is a difference between the original Asian swastika and the Nazi swastika, and it'd be nice if companies would try to educate people on the differences.
Of course, it's a lot easier to simply erase it and have zero discussion then it is to take the time to actually educate people on the issue."
Jynx was based mainly on a Japanese myth with probably some then-contemporary ganguro thrown in there. Just because it coincidentally resembles something offensive doesn't mean it should be censored, nor should Buddhists holy symbols be censored either- in my opinion. In your opinion it should be, along with every last Buddhist swastika in every last manga and anime. Naruto, One Piece, anything with the symbol needs to get rid of it to avoid offending the confused Carole Weatherbys of the world who get on their high horses and attack the product without bothering to try to understand it.
To me, if people are offended? Well, then just explain it to them with some kind of disclaimer. Educate them on the Buddhist good luck symbol and explain it has millenial-long history that predates Hitler appropriating it. Ichigo Kurosaki isn't swinging around a "Nazi sword" when he goes bankai, it's a symbols with a much greater meaning. It'd be great if people could understand the difference between an actual Nazi swastika and the Buddhist swastika, but just censoring Buddhist swastikas nonstop will ensure that most people never learn the difference.
Sean Schemmel is THE MAN! :)
Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"
Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"
Re: Who (or what) is Mr. Popo?
And for old time's sake-
http://animecauldron.com/dbzuncensored/ ... index.html
(note- Psaros is referencing the time is site was "hacked" by Payne, a guy who ran a comedy site with a Mr. Popo alterego that made South Park-style jokes)
Psaros- "My friends, I have escaped. Or to put it more accurately, I have been rescued.
If you have been visiting the message boards that I frequent since last weekend, or if you came to this site anytime between Monday evening and the time of this update, you will know that both I and my site have most recently been in the clutches of the diabolical Mr. Popo. Visitors to Mike Payne's Mr. Popo's Palace will know that the ebony devil (click and scroll down) periodically attacks the dear man and does terrible things to him and his site. I never thought it could happen to me, but Popo's most recent rampage was on a much wider scale than usual.
I spent days locked in a room, in a cage of Popo's design, being whipped, beaten and verbally abused. But then... just as Popo was preparing himself for another round that surely would have finished me off... I perceived a soft, golden light which slowly intensified until it filled the room with a majestic brilliance. I looked toward the doorway and beheld a being of light and love: Michael Payne had come to rescue me.
I have no memory of what happened next. I only recall awakening in my bed with a feeling of bliss. In my mind I heard Payne's voice gently reassuring me that Popo had been vanquished, and that I would be safe. Thank God that it's over.
Anyway, I found Popo's first (and only) update rather interesting. Apparently, many of you did too. After escaping from the Evil One, I wandered around and lurked at various message boards and newsgroups to see what people were saying about "the incident." Some believed that my site had been hacked. Others felt that it was a joke concocted by Payne and I. Still others were convinced that this was old Chris' way of saying goodbye once and for all (I would NEVER leave like that). But the real topic of discussion was the article itself. This is actually something that the lovely Michelle sent to me about a year ago, which Popo was resourceful enough to find in the horrifying pit of vastness that is my "to do" archive and (finally) post on the site. It is a very interesting little piece of journalism.
I want to talk about it.
I remember one Sunday evening I was watching DBZ on the International Channel with a friend of mine who doesn't follow the series. At one point, Mr. Popo appeared in his Mr. Popo clothes, with his wide googly unblinking Mr. Popo eyes, his fat red Mr. Popo lips and speaking in his buffoonish Mr. Popo voice. My friend almost immediately began to chuckle. He then shook his head and said "oh my god..." in a resigned tone. I just smiled and said "I know dude... it's... pretty blatant." Nothing more needed to be said, and we both knew exactly what the other was talking about. After all, I had pretty much the exact same reaction the first time I saw Mr. Popo.
This may come as a surprise, but I didn't find the article nearly as outrageous as many of you did. Perhaps it's because I live in an ultra politically correct town, and am attending the very university that is the source of that political correctness, in which I have been reading similarly-themed articles for years. I'm used to this sort of thinking, and it has been presented to me so many times, in so many different ways, that I have grown to better understand and appreciate it.
I personally see Mr. Popo as a walking stereotype, one who directly recalls the outlandish negative caricatures of black people that were so prevalent before the civil rights movements of the 1960's. Not just in appearance, but in character, role, and voice (particularly in the Japanese version). So in that sense, I agree with Ms. Weatherford. However, I don't share her disdain for the character on the grounds that he is a stereotype, nor do I necessarily agree with the idea that such representations are "harmful."
I actually think they're funny.
At this point, I have to admit that I'm an extremely un-politically correct person. It doesn't come through on this site because I consider this a public space, and here I behave pretty much the way I do in any other public space. I rarely even swear on the site. But the sorts of things I say and joke about when I'm with my friends would greatly offend many people, and I don't like to do that. My sense of humor is very, very naughty. I've told and laughed at many an "ethnic joke" in my day, and casually tossed around a few racial slurs every now and then. The bottom line, though, is that I am only kidding, and I only do this sort of thing around people who understand and accept that without having to be told that I'm only kidding. In my heart of hearts, I'm not a hatemonger, a bigot, or a racist by any stretch of the imagination.
There are a great number of people who can't or won't joke about race, or handicaps, or homosexuality, or any number of other topics that are "culturally sensitive." These people often go to great lengths to speak out against the politically incorrect. The irony, of course, is that political incorrectness is funny exactly because people take such offense to it. It is taboo, and therefore irresistible to those of us who enjoy being rebellious.
Basically, my view is that any kind of political incorrectness is only meaningful based on the context and the spirit behind it. Yes, there is real hate out there, and humor can just as easily be used in a hateful context. And sometimes the line between innocent joking and actual bigotry can be quite blurred. But if I call somebody gay on a message board, does that automatically mean that I'm a homophobe? Of course not. I call my gay stebrother a limp-wristed fag on a regular basis, and I love the guy. He'll then make some comment about my poor vision, we'll both laugh, and everything is fine. In fact, I feel the most comfortable around people who I can joke around with like that.
So this brings us back to Akira Toriyama and Mr. Popo. Some of you reacted VERY defensively to the article, in many cases even arguing against the notion that Popo is a black caricature at all. For me, that's not even up for debate. Again, just about everyone I know (including myself) saw it right away. If you didn't, I suggest that you take a look at the cartoon images of blacks that were once popular in many parts of the world (do a little research, it should be easy to find at least a few examples). You will be hard pressed to convince yourself that Popo's design was not at least somewhat influenced by these representations.
So what WAS the spirit behind the creation of this character? I don't think anybody really knows the answer to that. If we could somehow know for sure that Popo was indeed meant to be a hateful mockery, based on real prejudice, then clearly we'd view it in a decidedly negative light. However, I sincerely doubt that this was Toriyama's intention, knowing what I do about him. Especially given how gentle and likeable the character is, and the ways in which he directly defies other key components of the black stereotype. Ultimately, we don't really know what Toriyama was thinking. This puts the burden of interpretation on each of us as individuals. So while I disagree with Ms. Weatherford's stance, I can still understand, and even sympathize, with it. "
http://animecauldron.com/dbzuncensored/ ... odbye.html
Psaros- "I do wish, however, that visitors would come straight to me with their concerns rather than discussing them amongst themselves on message boards, but I suppose I can understand why they wouldn't. The fact is (unlike a lot of people on this Earth), I really DO care what others think of me. I consider feedback, criticism and outside opinions extremely valuable, even if they may be harsh sometimes. In fairness to myself, a lot of what I've been doing lately has been totally misunderstood (such as my update about Mr. Popo and other racial stereotyping, which a lot of people took the wrong way), but how can I correct misunderstandings if I don't know they exist? "
I think Planet Namek is down in the archives but, I remember a few old topics with people getting angry at Psaros for what he said while calling him a racist.
http://animecauldron.com/dbzuncensored/ ... index.html
(note- Psaros is referencing the time is site was "hacked" by Payne, a guy who ran a comedy site with a Mr. Popo alterego that made South Park-style jokes)
Psaros- "My friends, I have escaped. Or to put it more accurately, I have been rescued.
If you have been visiting the message boards that I frequent since last weekend, or if you came to this site anytime between Monday evening and the time of this update, you will know that both I and my site have most recently been in the clutches of the diabolical Mr. Popo. Visitors to Mike Payne's Mr. Popo's Palace will know that the ebony devil (click and scroll down) periodically attacks the dear man and does terrible things to him and his site. I never thought it could happen to me, but Popo's most recent rampage was on a much wider scale than usual.
I spent days locked in a room, in a cage of Popo's design, being whipped, beaten and verbally abused. But then... just as Popo was preparing himself for another round that surely would have finished me off... I perceived a soft, golden light which slowly intensified until it filled the room with a majestic brilliance. I looked toward the doorway and beheld a being of light and love: Michael Payne had come to rescue me.
I have no memory of what happened next. I only recall awakening in my bed with a feeling of bliss. In my mind I heard Payne's voice gently reassuring me that Popo had been vanquished, and that I would be safe. Thank God that it's over.
Anyway, I found Popo's first (and only) update rather interesting. Apparently, many of you did too. After escaping from the Evil One, I wandered around and lurked at various message boards and newsgroups to see what people were saying about "the incident." Some believed that my site had been hacked. Others felt that it was a joke concocted by Payne and I. Still others were convinced that this was old Chris' way of saying goodbye once and for all (I would NEVER leave like that). But the real topic of discussion was the article itself. This is actually something that the lovely Michelle sent to me about a year ago, which Popo was resourceful enough to find in the horrifying pit of vastness that is my "to do" archive and (finally) post on the site. It is a very interesting little piece of journalism.
I want to talk about it.
I remember one Sunday evening I was watching DBZ on the International Channel with a friend of mine who doesn't follow the series. At one point, Mr. Popo appeared in his Mr. Popo clothes, with his wide googly unblinking Mr. Popo eyes, his fat red Mr. Popo lips and speaking in his buffoonish Mr. Popo voice. My friend almost immediately began to chuckle. He then shook his head and said "oh my god..." in a resigned tone. I just smiled and said "I know dude... it's... pretty blatant." Nothing more needed to be said, and we both knew exactly what the other was talking about. After all, I had pretty much the exact same reaction the first time I saw Mr. Popo.
This may come as a surprise, but I didn't find the article nearly as outrageous as many of you did. Perhaps it's because I live in an ultra politically correct town, and am attending the very university that is the source of that political correctness, in which I have been reading similarly-themed articles for years. I'm used to this sort of thinking, and it has been presented to me so many times, in so many different ways, that I have grown to better understand and appreciate it.
I personally see Mr. Popo as a walking stereotype, one who directly recalls the outlandish negative caricatures of black people that were so prevalent before the civil rights movements of the 1960's. Not just in appearance, but in character, role, and voice (particularly in the Japanese version). So in that sense, I agree with Ms. Weatherford. However, I don't share her disdain for the character on the grounds that he is a stereotype, nor do I necessarily agree with the idea that such representations are "harmful."
I actually think they're funny.
At this point, I have to admit that I'm an extremely un-politically correct person. It doesn't come through on this site because I consider this a public space, and here I behave pretty much the way I do in any other public space. I rarely even swear on the site. But the sorts of things I say and joke about when I'm with my friends would greatly offend many people, and I don't like to do that. My sense of humor is very, very naughty. I've told and laughed at many an "ethnic joke" in my day, and casually tossed around a few racial slurs every now and then. The bottom line, though, is that I am only kidding, and I only do this sort of thing around people who understand and accept that without having to be told that I'm only kidding. In my heart of hearts, I'm not a hatemonger, a bigot, or a racist by any stretch of the imagination.
There are a great number of people who can't or won't joke about race, or handicaps, or homosexuality, or any number of other topics that are "culturally sensitive." These people often go to great lengths to speak out against the politically incorrect. The irony, of course, is that political incorrectness is funny exactly because people take such offense to it. It is taboo, and therefore irresistible to those of us who enjoy being rebellious.
Basically, my view is that any kind of political incorrectness is only meaningful based on the context and the spirit behind it. Yes, there is real hate out there, and humor can just as easily be used in a hateful context. And sometimes the line between innocent joking and actual bigotry can be quite blurred. But if I call somebody gay on a message board, does that automatically mean that I'm a homophobe? Of course not. I call my gay stebrother a limp-wristed fag on a regular basis, and I love the guy. He'll then make some comment about my poor vision, we'll both laugh, and everything is fine. In fact, I feel the most comfortable around people who I can joke around with like that.
So this brings us back to Akira Toriyama and Mr. Popo. Some of you reacted VERY defensively to the article, in many cases even arguing against the notion that Popo is a black caricature at all. For me, that's not even up for debate. Again, just about everyone I know (including myself) saw it right away. If you didn't, I suggest that you take a look at the cartoon images of blacks that were once popular in many parts of the world (do a little research, it should be easy to find at least a few examples). You will be hard pressed to convince yourself that Popo's design was not at least somewhat influenced by these representations.
So what WAS the spirit behind the creation of this character? I don't think anybody really knows the answer to that. If we could somehow know for sure that Popo was indeed meant to be a hateful mockery, based on real prejudice, then clearly we'd view it in a decidedly negative light. However, I sincerely doubt that this was Toriyama's intention, knowing what I do about him. Especially given how gentle and likeable the character is, and the ways in which he directly defies other key components of the black stereotype. Ultimately, we don't really know what Toriyama was thinking. This puts the burden of interpretation on each of us as individuals. So while I disagree with Ms. Weatherford's stance, I can still understand, and even sympathize, with it. "
http://animecauldron.com/dbzuncensored/ ... odbye.html
Psaros- "I do wish, however, that visitors would come straight to me with their concerns rather than discussing them amongst themselves on message boards, but I suppose I can understand why they wouldn't. The fact is (unlike a lot of people on this Earth), I really DO care what others think of me. I consider feedback, criticism and outside opinions extremely valuable, even if they may be harsh sometimes. In fairness to myself, a lot of what I've been doing lately has been totally misunderstood (such as my update about Mr. Popo and other racial stereotyping, which a lot of people took the wrong way), but how can I correct misunderstandings if I don't know they exist? "
I think Planet Namek is down in the archives but, I remember a few old topics with people getting angry at Psaros for what he said while calling him a racist.
Sean Schemmel is THE MAN! :)
Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"
Me- "Also, before anyone mentions it, Schemmel's interview was from nearly 15 years ago. He paid a brief visit to Kanzenshuu's forums a few years back and earned legendary respect that cancels out anything he said from that long ago. :D"