Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Step 1:
-Use a time machine and kidnap Kid Gohan after he beat Cell.
Step 2:
- Bring him to Elder Kai so he can have his powers unlocked.
Step 3:
- Gather the dragon balls, and wish that he never grows up.
Step 4:
- Use the 2nd wish to transport modern Gohan and Videl into the sun.
Everyone wins.
But then we have an out of character pussy who wouldn't jump in to save his friends. Just sit there and watch them die even though no other Gohan would just sit back and take that shit.
I think he learned his lesson after watching his father die, seeing Cell kill trunks, having his arm broken, and nearly causing Armageddon. I...think.
Though...maybe that's why he stopped fighting. Repressed all of that, went to therapy, and spent the next 7 years in his happy place...
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
dbzfan7 wrote:I get a laugh at the sheer stupid idea, and wonder how anyone thought it was a good idea.
If you think what Toriyama has been doing is stupid then you should read what some fans wanted/want from him.
That'd be delving into the Broly's, shipping, and fetish territory...no thanks.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
BlazingFiddlesticks wrote:If your going to have a story where Goku solves everything, Battle of Gods had the far more entertaining idea for the interlude. This isn't deifying Toriyama, he crashed his own film hype train with Revival of F, this Toriyama actually coming up a better approach to utilizing characters that will ultimately get smashed than the mindless, dragging unfun filler-fighting that makes up so much of GT. Some of which does feature Goku.
Everybody getting chumped effortlessly and ~only ~*Goku*~ can save us~ is terrible and boring no matter how sparkly the paint job is.
And for all the praise I've heaped on Toriyama for ignoring or subverting movie tropes, consciously or not, he never addresses the root of the problem.
JulieYBM wrote:
Pannaliciour wrote:Reading all the comments and interviews, my conclusion is: nobody knows what the hell is going on.
Everybody getting chumped effortlessly and ~only ~*Goku*~ can save us~ is terrible and boring no matter how sparkly the paint job is.
You might as well complain that Superman always saves the day in his stories.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
EXBadguy wrote:I'm serious. All he did was just stand in space only to get disintergrated by a meteor, so he didn't really fight Freeza. He's playable in almost every game too, just like Broly, yet Broly gets all the shit.
What does that have to do with anything? You seem to imply that the problem some people (including myself) have with Broly is the amount of fans he has or his availability as a playable character. I'd say some of the main reasons are the character itself (or lack thereof) and the incessant 'Mary Sue' treatment.
EXBadguy wrote:I'm serious. All he did was just stand in space only to get disintergrated by a meteor, so he didn't really fight Freeza. He's playable in almost every game too, just like Broly, yet Broly gets all the shit.
What does that have to do with anything? You seem to imply that the problem some people (including myself) have with Broly is the amount of fans he has or his availability as a playable character.
And that's what I'm talking about. You can hate the character all you want, but to bash the character cuz he's in almost every game when another movie/special character is doing the same? Come on. Sometimes I think Broly get too overbashed here honestly. Just don't watch his movies nor don't play as him, it's not that hard.
Akira Toriyama wrote:If anyone. ANYONE AT TOEI! Makes a movie about old and weak major villains returning, or making recolored versions of Super Saiyan, I'ma come to yo company and evict you from doing Dragon Ball ever again! Only I do those things, because people love me, and they despise you....derp!
Marco Polo wrote:Goku Black is a fan of DBZ who hates Super and has taken the form of a younger Goku (thinner shape, softer hair) to avenge the original series by destroying the new.
ABED wrote:You might as well complain that Superman always saves the day in his stories.
There's a difference between "saves the day" and "is the only one who can do anything".
Also Goku DOESN'T always save the day in the original story.
Also I don't recall Justice League having Flash/Lantern/WonderWoman/Batman get beat up every episode until Superman floated down to save them.
I think people are under the impression that it's more of an ensemble than it truly is. Goku is more or less the guy that saves the day in DB. 9 times out of 10, he's the hero that saves the day. DB isn't the justice league, it's not a team of characters that are heroes with their own books. That's a superhero group, DB is more akin to Batman, Superman, or Spider-Man. Each of those has a cast of characters that surround the main hero.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
ABED wrote:I think people are under the impression that it's more of an ensemble than it truly is. Goku is more or less the guy that saves the day in DB. 9 times out of 10, he's the hero that saves the day.
He saves the day (in the ~only one who can do it~ sense) once in DBZ, when he fights Freeza on Namek. For the entire rest of it, it's an ensemble cast.
I'd say this thread is shaping up to be a top contender.
Favorite Movies: Alien, Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back, The Thing, Evil Dead, The Land Before Time
Favorite Shows: Cardcaptor Sakura, Doctor Who, Wallace and Gromit, Wakfu, Yu Yu Hakusho
Favorite Manga: Fullmetal Alchemist, Hunter x Hunter, Dragon Ball
Augenis wrote:The power level view into the series has trained a significant portion of the fan base into real life stereotypical members of the Freeza empire, where each and every individual is reduced to a floating number above their heads and any sudden changes to said number are met with shock and confusion.
Not surprised despite being a non canon character he's certainly one of the most popular characters from the series and arguably the most popular villain.
He's far more interesting than Bardock that's for sure.
Speaking of Broly, I bought this Broly figuarts toy for 50 bucks months ago. I stopped collecting toys years ago, but the minute I saw this beauty, I knew he was the one. I knew... the price of this baby would spike in less than a year. And by god I was right. Now costs nearly 100 bucks, and will continue increasing for years to come.
<333 Broly.
"Dragon Ball once became a thing of the past to me, but after that, I got angry about the live action movie, re-wrote an entire movie script, and now I'm complaining about the quality of the new TV anime. It seems Dragon Ball has grown on me so much that I can't leave it alone." - Akira Toriyama on Dragon Ball Super
Marco Polo wrote:The fanbase that can't appreciate a simple cartoon.
jjgp1112 wrote:The lamest thing is the fanbase boo-hooing about anything that contradicts the headcanons they thought were set in stone for 15 years.
Gonna have to go with this.
Also really not digging the current artstyle, whether we're talking about the anime's or Toriyama's.
Edit: Also really not liking the disgusting lack of Hironobu Kageyama's vocals in theme songs.
As for the whole "but if GT did what Toriyama's doing you'd all balk at it" argument, GT's problems aren't contained to the inconsistencies of the story that it created, or that Goku had the spotlight. There was much more wrong with it than that, and we've had dozens upon dozens of threads about that stuff. One very stark contrast between BoG and GT is that GT wasn't filled with Toriyama-written character interactions throughout, which is immensely what contributed to what I personally liked about the new film. GT hardly makes up for its ills.
Last edited by Zephyr on Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Rocketman wrote:Brolymania has cooled down recently, but it was completely absurd for a while - he even got jammed into a game about the Saiyan Arc.
Attack Of The Saiyans right? I found that so ridiculous, man... Even Dr. Whello or Tullece would be a better choice
even though I like Broly all that hype on him makes me feel kinda sick
And let's not forget that he was in both Attack of the Saiyans and Ultimate Butoden. The two games branded as Dragon Ball Kai. Kai! The manga cut of the anime. (or so it was marketted as, despite recent events in the Boo arc)
Unlike Bardock, I don't remember seeing Broli a single time in any of the 42 manga volumes.
ABED wrote:I think people are under the impression that it's more of an ensemble than it truly is. Goku is more or less the guy that saves the day in DB. 9 times out of 10, he's the hero that saves the day.
<br abp="945"><br abp="946">He saves the day (in the ~only one who can do it~ sense) once in DBZ, when he fights Freeza on Namek. For the entire rest of it, it's an ensemble cast.
Completely disregarding DB and implying that it's a different series. Ensemble isn't inherently better. For the bulk of the series, Goku is the main hero. The Buu arc has a slightly more ensemble approach, though it's not necessarily the better for it, and much of that feels like Toriyama simply couldn't decide who should be the main hero.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
