What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

[Kamiccolo9]

*sigh and shrug* All I can say is welcome to Kanzenshuu where we tend to hate when the fans love and love what the fans hate. I think I'm gonna put that as my signature.

So Kanzenshuu members aren't fans?

[EXBadguy]

There's also absolutely nothing stopping anyone who doesn't like the newer stuff from going 'I think this is my stop' and get off of the franchise moving forward. The old stuff will always still be there to enjoy, just ignore the newer stuff if it's so 'terrible' and brings you such pain, rather than constantly looking at it and going 'THIS IS ALL WRONG, WRONG, WRONG'. It'd save everyone some headaches.

Try to say that on Youtube or Saiyan Island. You'll see many people putting fire on their pitchforks and tell Toriyama to retire. I'm not saying I'll do that, I have common sense.

So Kanzenshuu members aren't fans?

I never said that, but you get the point.

[dbzfan7]

The Toriyama glasses. If plenty of this stuff happened in GT, we'd harp the hell out of it. However since "The Toriyama" is head writer (Yes THE TORIYAMA OMG), then shit turns to gold. Minus being let go mostly cause it's a tiny incredibly short dumb story. So it's pushed aside no problem because it ain't a full manga or movie.

'Toriyama glasses' might be one thing, but you know, it wouldn't kill you or a good handful of others to show the man some respect either. You do realize he still made the stuff you actually do seem to still enjoy, right?

There's also absolutely nothing stopping anyone who doesn't like the newer stuff from going 'I think this is my stop' and get off of the franchise moving forward. The old stuff will always still be there to enjoy, just ignore the newer stuff if it's so 'terrible' and brings you such pain, rather than constantly looking at it and going 'THIS IS ALL WRONG, WRONG, WRONG'. It'd save everyone some headaches.

It pains me to see some of the defense. I have mad respect for the guy, but I also know he works best with a strict editor. Without one he gets carried away. I believe Toriyama is an awesome man who can make his ideas work, if he tried to think them through more. I believe some alterations can make his ideas work. It's just he doesn't really seem to give a shit about it. A writer with too much free reign isn't a good idea in it's entirety. I deeply love what he has given us from the manga (Mostly), and I don't go a day without thinking about it.

I'm the kind of person who's in the win win situation. I win no matter what. If Toriyama produces something awesome, I can praise and love the awesomeness he brings to Dragon Ball. If he fucks up, I get a laugh at the sheer stupid idea, and wonder how anyone thought it was a good idea. I chuckle at how little consideration there is. I get mad too, but I still get enjoyment out of good and bad. No offense but this comes off as "Stop complaining about problems, let us enjoy the lack of care and classic Toriyama tone." Know who else told me the same advice...the people who were really excited for Sonic Boom....guess how that turned out? I will always find something to love about the new stuff, but there's just so much wrong with it too. I can get a kick out of it, if I turn off my brain off completely and enjoy it as a completely mindless product, just like how some casual people label Dragon Ball as a whole.

[Alestat]

What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

Everything released after '96.

[Gyt Kaliba]

It pains me to see some of the defense. I have mad respect for the guy, but I also know he works best with a strict editor. Without one he gets carried away. I believe Toriyama is an awesome man who can make his ideas work, if he tried to think them through more. I believe some alterations can make his ideas work. It's just he doesn't really seem to give a shit about it. A writer with too much free reign isn't a good idea in it's entirety. I deeply love what he has given us from the manga (Mostly), and I don't go a day without thinking about it.

I'm the kind of person who's in the win win situation. I win no matter what. If Toriyama produces something awesome, I can praise and love the awesomeness he brings to Dragon Ball. If he fucks up, I get a laugh at the sheer stupid idea, and wonder how anyone thought it was a good idea. I chuckle at how little consideration there is. I get mad too, but I still get enjoyment out of good and bad. No offense but this comes off as "Stop complaining about problems, let us enjoy the lack of care and classic Toriyama tone." Know who else told me the same advice...the people who were really excited for Sonic Boom....guess how that turned out? I will always find something to love about the new stuff, but there's just so much wrong with it too. I can get a kick out of it, if I turn off my brain off completely and enjoy it as a completely mindless product, just like how some casual people label Dragon Ball as a whole.

See, now that's all fine then. I don't have a problem with any of that.

I would never claim that Toriyama is perfect - the series' "attempts" at romance, and it's general use of female character, are both pretty good showcases of him being far from that - but the man is still a literary genius who makes some of the most off-the-wall, insane, ideas work well for the universe he's cooked up. So while critiquing him is fine, a certain level of respect still is owed to him if one is a fan of his work, IMO. So maybe I've just been missing that element from your own posts, but in general it does seem like far too many people are just collectively dismissing anything and everything for...well, for nothing more than for the sake of hating things. It just seems like a poor use of everyone's time.

[dbzfan7]

It pains me to see some of the defense. I have mad respect for the guy, but I also know he works best with a strict editor. Without one he gets carried away. I believe Toriyama is an awesome man who can make his ideas work, if he tried to think them through more. I believe some alterations can make his ideas work. It's just he doesn't really seem to give a shit about it. A writer with too much free reign isn't a good idea in it's entirety. I deeply love what he has given us from the manga (Mostly), and I don't go a day without thinking about it.

I'm the kind of person who's in the win win situation. I win no matter what. If Toriyama produces something awesome, I can praise and love the awesomeness he brings to Dragon Ball. If he fucks up, I get a laugh at the sheer stupid idea, and wonder how anyone thought it was a good idea. I chuckle at how little consideration there is. I get mad too, but I still get enjoyment out of good and bad. No offense but this comes off as "Stop complaining about problems, let us enjoy the lack of care and classic Toriyama tone." Know who else told me the same advice...the people who were really excited for Sonic Boom....guess how that turned out? I will always find something to love about the new stuff, but there's just so much wrong with it too. I can get a kick out of it, if I turn off my brain off completely and enjoy it as a completely mindless product, just like how some casual people label Dragon Ball as a whole.

See, now that's all fine then. I don't have a problem with any of that.

I would never claim that Toriyama is perfect - the series' "attempts" at romance, and it's general use of female character, are both pretty good showcases of him being far from that - but the man is still a literary genius who makes some of the most off-the-wall, insane, ideas work well for the universe he's cooked up. So while critiquing him is fine, a certain level of respect still is owed to him if one is a fan of his work, IMO. So maybe I've just been missing that element from your own posts, but in general it does seem like far too many people are just collectively dismissing anything and everything for...well, for nothing more than for the sake of hating things. It just seems like a poor use of everyone's time.

I'm not someone who wants to trash all his ideas. I do amateur editor stuff myself. I try to make the authors ideas work as best as I can, or suggest they don't use it if I really can't find any way to. I think my problems can be fixed if some care were taken. I don't think the new ideas are completely dumb, just flawed and in need of a little more fleshing out.

Well my respect I guess comes from that I still think his ideas can work. I don't think they're all flat out stupid. The way they are presented to me I think are. I think he has awesome ideas (usually), but I think he needs to have someone help him care for them. Have someone there to say "Well you did establish this Mr. Toriyama sir." I think if we either add to or remove a little from some ideas (Depends on what the issue is), they can work. I don't want all the new ideas tossed aside. I want them fleshed out and not "Haha that's so funny...silly angels and Freeza."

I think a funny gag would be Freeza as a puffball escaping out of his reincarnation punishment. Since he's powerless though he can't actually do any harm, but just avoid losing his identity. Then once the movie starts they finally catch the fluff ball. The angels taunt him til his time comes, and then Freeza's soul is wished back. I think it'd be funny as Freeza is powerless, and looks like an adorable cloud. His voice coming out of that body would be funny in itself. No one would really need to be notified of this as any ogre thing can technically stop the powerless Freeza. Though this is just a quick idea I made, haven't ironed out my plot holes yet.

[Rocketman]

Do you remember how for the past two decades or so people have been mocking or complaining about GT's Goku (aka Godku aka Base Kid Goku) hogging all the screentime to the detriment of everybody else?

Well now bog is here, and apparently people love that exact same shit, so long as it's Toriyama's extrusion and not Toei's.

[Kamiccolo9]

So Kanzenshuu members aren't fans?

I never said that, but you get the point.

You put a distinct separation between Kanzenshuu members and "the fans." So, are we not fans? As you are a Kanzenshuu member, does that mean you are not a fan?

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Do you remember how for the past two decades or so people have been mocking or complaining about GT's Goku (aka Godku aka Base Kid Goku) hogging all the screentime to the detriment of everybody else?

Well now bog is here, and apparently people love that exact same shit, so long as it's Toriyama's extrusion and not Toei's.

On the basest level, yes, Goku gets the power-up and resolves the conflict while other characters get smacked. It also used the other characters in such a way that waiting for Goku to get back was honest to Pete not at the forefront of your mind. GT does not even pretend its succeeds in doing tha

So Kanzenshuu members aren't fans?

I never said that, but you get the point.

You put a distinct separation between Kanzenshuu members and "the fans." So, are we not fans? As you are a Kanzenshuu member, does that mean you are not a fan?

Kanzenshuu draws a different breed of fan than the stock perception of Dragon Ball fans in other parts of the internet, for the obvious reasons of language preferences, background knowledge, perception of the series, and so on, and no one for good or ill would deny it. It was a joke to that end.

[EXBadguy]

So Kanzenshuu members aren't fans?

I never said that, but you get the point.

You put a distinct separation between Kanzenshuu members and "the fans." So, are we not fans? As you are a Kanzenshuu member, does that mean you are not a fan?

*sigh* You know I don't mean that. I guess that's my fault for not being specific.

[Kamiccolo9]

Kanzenshuu draws a different breed of fan than the stock perception of Dragon Ball fans in other parts of the internet, for the obvious reasons of language preferences, background knowledge, perception of the series, and so on, and no one for good or ill would deny it. It was a joke to that end.

I realize that.

I also think that no one here will deny that it's better to type what we mean.

[Rocketman]

It also used the other characters in such a way that waiting for Goku to get back was honest to Pete not at the forefront of your mind. GT does not even pretend

such diffrence

[SSJ God Gogeta]

God, I love that scene.

[fadeddreams5]

Step 1:
-Use a time machine and kidnap Kid Gohan after he beat Cell.

Step 2:
- Bring him to Elder Kai so he can have his powers unlocked.

Step 3:
- Gather the dragon balls, and wish that he never grows up.

Step 4:
- Use the 2nd wish to transport modern Gohan and Videl into the sun.

Everyone wins.

[Kakarot9001]

Where do I SIGH?

Finally a topic that I can express all my hatred about "modern" DBZ

Son Goku and his Friends return: It was a lame special, I hate how Goku and Vegeta are using their pre-Android Saga outfits, the story was lame too... Remaining Freeza's soldiers? Come on, also for Vegeta brother looking as Gohan, damn... I saw Tarble design in the manga adaptation and for me was perfect! In the manga he really show some resemblance with his brother I don't know why they didn't used that design... Another reason to put that special down. Tarble the "good Saiyan fellow" was something weird to accept. But the special had its good points like Krillian and Yamcha being useful and etc. even though in general was a silly story.

I would comment about Super Saiyan Bardock Special but it was so wrong in so many ways that I find difficult to express here all the flaws that this special had

DB Minus: I don't know what this DB Minus is but it seems stuffed with flaws and inconsistencies. (Just based on opinions that I heard, I never read this "DB Minus" thing) For me what I really consider is Bardock TV Special if it is canon or not I don't care, this TV Special along with Trunks History were one of the best things they ever made about Dragon Ball

Battle Of Gods: My, my... I don't know even how begin with this... I respect who loved BoG but I just can't understand (my opinion though)
The excessive overpower of characters like Beerus and Whis overthrowing Vegetto (Something that I still have my doubts, is really Beerus or Whis stronger than a fully powered Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto, for real? Man... Is there a word beyond overpower? I would use that word right now)

Vegeta's dance... So out of his character, characters like Gohan, Gotenks treated like shit by the overwhelming Beerus... Vegeta suddenly never discovered "hidden powers" by rage since Cell killed Trunks and nothing has happened.

Super Saiyan God: I don't really complain about SSJG, I just don't liked the design and the way that Goku loses this form and absorb that power to keep fighting with Beerus. Super Saiyan 4 for the win, best design and you all can complain but for me SSJ4 is stronger than SSJG (my opinion)

Ressurection of Freeza: I don't why Beerus made such a mystery about the other universes God Of Destruction although in this movie they had the "marvellous" idea to bring back Freeza! Just why? Don't seems like a bad fanfic or something else? I just can see like that.

I don't complain about Freeza's private Hell all that angels and stuff but I do complain about he still in his Mecha state just to contradict the anime and etc.

Also Freeza realizing that he is indeed a "prodigy" that only needs to train 4 months to go Untrained SSJ Goku peak to Full Powered SSJ3 peak? WTF?

I think that Toriyama need really to take a rest of the series, he lost the touch, he keeps forgetting important stuff, it is done from him. It's funny how people hate GT because its not a original work by Toriyama himself but all those "modern" stuff proves that if GT was his work it could be on the same level or even worse as it was.

The Animation: I like the animation but as someone has said before I hate the fact that TOEI just don't care about doing something really impressive with the animation and often uses the chepeast methods.

[jjgp1112]

The lamest thing is the fanbase boo-hooing about anything that contradicts the headcanons they thought were set in stone for 15 years.

[Ex-Dubbie369]

I'm pretty cool with most of what's come out in this "modern" era of DB productions. I liked the Jump Special, ignored Episode of Bardock, dug Battle of Gods, and LOVED Jaco.

So I guess my main issue is with DB-. I don't really have much to say about it that Gaffer Tape didn't say in a much more eloquent and organized way than I could ever manage. However, I do think that Toriyama should maybe try to steer clear of characters that he didn't create (in terms of story, I know he had input on the design). Although, even DB- has an aspect I like, Gine! I'm happy she exists. Sure, she's not entirely necessary, but its nice to know who Goku's mom is anyway.

The thing I am most disappointed with, however, is how, with BoG, Jaco, DB-, and now Revival of F, the "canon" arguments are getting more obnoxious. And to some degree, I see a small amount of disdain even, for the anime version of the franchise, which surprises me. I do think there are people in the fandom that are giving some things a pass because they're made by Toriyama, that they otherwise would have torn apart. While I'm not in the camp that thinks he's lost his touch or has turned into a George Lucas-styled revisionist with his own franchise, I also don't find him infallible or incapable of telling a bad story every so often.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

It also used the other characters in such a way that waiting for Goku to get back was honest to Pete not at the forefront of your mind. GT does not even pretend

*Examples*

such diffrence

I really don't see where your going with this. Goku ultimately solves everything in both cases, I agreed. If your going to have a story where Goku solves everything, Battle of Gods had the far more entertaining idea for the interlude. This isn't deifying Toriyama, he crashed his own film hype train with Revival of F, this Toriyama actually coming up a better approach to utilizing characters that will ultimately get smashed than the mindless, dragging unfun filler-fighting that makes up so much of GT. Some of which does feature Goku.

The lamest thing is the fanbase boo-hooing about anything that contradicts the headcanons they thought were set in stone for 15 years.

Which is what you get when you wake up a dog that's been sleeping for close to twenty years. It's certainly messier now.

[dbzfan7]

Step 1:
-Use a time machine and kidnap Kid Gohan after he beat Cell.

Step 2:
- Bring him to Elder Kai so he can have his powers unlocked.

Step 3:
- Gather the dragon balls, and wish that he never grows up.

Step 4:
- Use the 2nd wish to transport modern Gohan and Videl into the sun.

Everyone wins.

But then we have an out of character pussy who wouldn't jump in to save his friends. Just sit there and watch them die even though no other Gohan would just sit back and take that shit.

[Rocketman]

If your going to have a story where Goku solves everything, Battle of Gods had the far more entertaining idea for the interlude. This isn't deifying Toriyama, he crashed his own film hype train with Revival of F, this Toriyama actually coming up a better approach to utilizing characters that will ultimately get smashed than the mindless, dragging unfun filler-fighting that makes up so much of GT. Some of which does feature Goku.

Everybody getting chumped effortlessly and ~only ~*Goku*~ can save us~ is terrible and boring no matter how sparkly the paint job is.