What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

[Matches Malone]

At least we have the Moro arc in the manga still going. (No clue if it's any good or not, I don't read the manga )

The arc is currently in its climax, so I expect it to end within the next 2-3 chapters. If the ending manages to stick the landing, it'll be by far the best thing to come out of this revival alongside the BOG movie.

[fadeddreams5]

Anyways, that entire Super Dragon Ball Heroes anime special was such a mess. It actually made me miss Super.

I think you're exaggerating, we can't compare the two... Also SDBH has better concepts than those used on Super for sure.

I was going to say Super had great concepts, but then I remembered god ki, gods of destruction, and different universes came from a DBZ movie. Well, I did really like the concept of an evil Supreme Kai and a tournament between different universes. Unfortunately, piss poor animation and repetitive writing killed the former, and horrible power scaling issues and an uninspired antagonist tarnished the latter.

SDBH is the equivalent of picking out from a hat an idea fans have had for years, and implementing it with little to no care. It's literally the sort of stories a kid creates in his head while playing with action figures or drawing-- all DB logic out the window. I wouldn't be surprised if they just improvise the scripts too.

[Jord]

Anyways, that entire Super Dragon Ball Heroes anime special was such a mess. It actually made me miss Super.

I think you're exaggerating, we can't compare the two... Also SDBH has better concepts than those used on Super for sure.

I was going to say Super had great concepts, but then I remembered god ki, gods of destruction, and different universes came from a DBZ movie. Well, I did really like the concept of an evil Supreme Kai and a tournament between different universes. Unfortunately, piss poor animation and repetitive writing killed the former, and horrible power scaling issues and an uninspired antagonist tarnished the latter.

SDBH is the equivalent of picking out from a hat an idea fans have had for years, and implementing it with little to no care. It's literally the sort of stories a kid creates in his head while playing with action figures or drawing-- all DB logic out the window. I wouldn't be surprised if they just improvise the scripts too.

I agree but SDBH at least gives us cool designs. Love SSJG Trunks' design, adult Gotenks and it's cool to finally see a SSJ4 Vegito.

[fadeddreams5]

One very big pet peeve of mine is the entire existence of Xeno Goku. Such a horrible concept. Why couldn't they just make him GT Goku so we could have a proper crossover?

[Shaddy]

A boring version of Goku who works for an agency that just sends him out to whichever villain is being marketed at the viewers is much easier to work with than a version of Goku who's part of a real story.

[Skar]

One very big pet peeve of mine is the entire existence of Xeno Goku. Such a horrible concept. Why couldn't they just make him GT Goku so we could have a proper crossover?

Huh all this time I thought Xeno Goku was just the GT Goku after joining those Time Patrollers. GT Goku was my favorite post-Buu saga version of Goku so I liked Xeno Goku.

[Demon Prince Piccolo]

Goten and Trunks never aging/having (currently as of Super, not talking about GT) any meaningful character arcs/growth takes the cake for me right now. Whether or not they were meant to be gag characters originally is irrelevant to me, because they have so much potential within the story.

[Matches Malone]

Whether or not they were meant to be gag characters originally is irrelevant to me, because they have so much potential within the story.

They were introduced with the intention of only being used once, as Toriyama already decided DB would end when he started the Buu arc. The problem is that with DB seemingly continuing indefinitely is that characters like them are left behind, as their role was written around one specific arc, in their case the Buu arc.

[Demon Prince Piccolo]

Whether or not they were meant to be gag characters originally is irrelevant to me, because they have so much potential within the story.

They were introduced with the intention of only being used once, as Toriyama already decided DB would end when he started the Buu arc. The problem is that with DB seemingly continuing indefinitely is that characters like them are left behind, as their role was written around one specific arc, in their case the Buu arc.

Yep, that has become blatantly obvious at this point. I look forward to that day Super moves past End of Z so that they will at least have to be aged up lol. But I won't hold my breath for now.

[Noah]

The difficulty in make Gohan character work in a way without appealing to nostalgia. We don't need adult Gohan to look like his Cell Games self because average fans think he should be like that forever. We want actual development for a character to feel more like himself and not another version of his mentors (Goku and Piccolo).

[fadeddreams5]

The difficulty in make Gohan character work in a way without appealing to nostalgia. We don't need adult Gohan to look like his Cell Games self because average fans think he should be like that forever. We want actual development for a character to feel more like himself and not another version of his mentors (Goku and Piccolo).

Super has been doing stuff like this for a while too. Instead of subtle references to the past, they straight up reuse ideas (e.g. Vegeta's Final Flash against Magetta and Final Explosion against Toppo). Final Gohan is the laziest new transformation, both in execution and appearance, yet.

[fadeddreams5]

I feel it's an appropriate time to revive this thread.

[MasenkoHA]

I feel it's an appropriate time to revive this thread.

It's still Dragon Ball Super Dee Duper Yu-gi-oh Heroes

[Grimlock]

It still is Dragon Ball Super. I really can't fathom how they brought such a beloved, popular and renowned series back, for a total of one hundred and thirty one episodes, going from 2015 to 2018, and the "best" they could do with it was mostly retellings and tournaments, with overall poor management. Also, it was set it in a time period which, logically and to be expected, is where we should've been able to see characters transitioning from Majin Buu saga to the way they are in the 28th tournament, the end of the series. Yet, some characters remained the exact same throughout of it, while others regressed. At a moment some characters gained new designs, but these new designs were quickly abandoned in favor of their old ones. Other characters would not grow up at all, creating a lot of problems and inconsistencies due to it.

But hey, it did its job. It pleased both the elitist ones who find enjoyment in seeing a group of people having their "expectations subverted since 1984", and the general masses who just enjoy the fight scenes (somehow I feel this sentence is contradictory. Hm, I wonder why... ). So all's well that ends well.

* Kal-El-Karrot Potter - A long time ago, there existed a saiyan named Bardock. He was a ruthless warrior, and indifferent father, who obeyed all commands of mass genocide until, one day, he encountered extraterrestrial beings who cursed him with the power of foresight reminded him of love for the family. which included visions of the imminent deaths of him and his loved ones moment he missed the birth of his son. Plagued with fear unknown feeling, he tries to warn save--wait a minute, wrong story. Let me start again: A long time ago, there was a saiyan named Bardock. He was a loving father who killed aliens--but only evil looking ones! Bardock wishes to a dragon for his sons to grow up well, which ended up placing plot armor on them. Him, and his caring wife one day decide to transport their son, Kakarrot, to Earth because they want a better life for him. They embrace as they ponder over the future of their planet. Awww. :'D

Needed an update with the latest development.

[ABED]

But hey, it did its job. It pleased both the elitist ones who find enjoyment in seeing a group of people having their "expectations subverted since 1984"

What is this referring to?

[sunsetshimmer]

It still is Dragon Ball Super.

This.

I mean we only got trailer of Daima, we don't know if it's good or not. Basing on trailer and initial synopsis i can only say it already sounds more interesting to me than anything under "Dragon Ball Super" title except maybe Super Hero which could be even released as DBZ movie if it wasn't for few scenes of training at Beerus place. And that says a lot.

[TheMikado]

But hey, it did its job. It pleased both the elitist ones who find enjoyment in seeing a group of people having their "expectations subverted since 1984"

What is this referring to?

Anyone who still holds on to “canon” as some measure of quality.

[ABED]

But hey, it did its job. It pleased both the elitist ones who find enjoyment in seeing a group of people having their "expectations subverted since 1984"

What is this referring to?

Anyone who still holds on to “canon” as some measure of quality.

I'm still not getting it. how does the issue of canon have to do with expectations being subverted since 1984?

[TheMikado]

What is this referring to?

Anyone who still holds on to “canon” as some measure of quality.

I'm still not getting it. how does the issue of canon have to do with expectations being subverted since 1984?

Because it goes along with the creation myth of Toriyama’s boundless genius. Essential if it’s from Toriyama it’s a master stroke of artistry even when the workmanship or quality of the story or premise is lacking.

The lack of quality of the story, premise, or execution is then explained away by purists as “subverting expectations” who typically also exalt “canon” material as direct works from Toriyama.

To frame this more succinctly there is a faction of the fandom which truly believes:
Toriyama = Good content.
Non-Toriyama = bad content

Any attempts to apply a critical eye to Toriyama’s work are explained away by being beyond our ability to understand his creative genius or blamed on creative adjacent individuals such as the Dragon Room.

I also want to make it clear, Toriyama is good but not infallible. My opinion is that he did his absolute best work through strict editors and left as an unchecked creative… I personally do not enjoy his creative output.

[Luso Saiyan]

To frame this more succinctly there is a faction of the fandom which truly believes:
Toriyama = Good content.
Non-Toriyama = bad content

I fail to see how this is a problem. All things being equal, deferring to the creator is the least worrisome standard anyone can have as far as fiction goes.