Best Freeza dub voice?

[HybridSaiyan]

I dunno. To some degree I think it's accurate. I mean, voice acting in the first Resident Evil. At the end of the day, don't we all have to agree the acting and direction is piss-poor?

Doesn't matter at all if everybody you know of agrees that it wasn't good acting. If one guy comes along, sees it and honestly says it was good or good enough, there's literally no way, at all, to prove him wrong, to determine that he is wrong.

You can discuss it with him, say why you think it's bad, but if he still honestly still thinks it's good or good enough, you literally can't prove him wrong.

Why?

Because it's all based on opinion, not on actual quantifiable and measurable activity with exact effects and a determinable process, and the amount of people sharing an opinion on a movie won't change that.

All you can do is have another opinion and disagree with him and if you try to argue that is wrong without having no way to prove it, you are either trying to speak for him or deny that he can have an opinion.

Yeah, we are all entitled to our opinion at the end of the day.

[rereboy]

It's my opinion that you're wrong.

(Where do we go from here?)

The difference is between stating "you are (factually) wrong (even though there's no way to prove it or determine it)" and "I think that you are wrong".

If you say that, in your opinion, I'm incorrect regarding a certain issue, you are just disagreeing from my opinion with your own. There's zero problems with that.

(But of course, if you try to say that regarding something factual, it wouldn't be hard to actually determine who is right and who is incorrect because with factual things you can actually prove stuff. My point was regarding things that aren't actually factual because they are based on opinion).

[ABED]

But she doesn't have the charm that Barbara Goodson has. If anyone likes it, fine, but that doesn't make it good. I like Power Rangers, but it's not a well written or well acted show. It's just fun. I don't feel the same way about Young's Freeza which is probably inconsistent with my enjoyment of PR or Super Sentai, but so be it. One bugs me, the other one doesn't.

Oh, for sure. I'm trying to agree with you.

I'm saying that when a character who's supposed to be genuinely frightening sounds straight out of a campy, badly written show, then that's says a lot about their performance and appropriateness to the character.

Oh I got that. I can see why from my post you might think i was disagreeing, but I wasn't. Sorry if that didn't come through.

[ABED]

I know that there's a prevalent belief that it's a matter of opinion, but there's a limit to that. It may not be a hard science, but there are limits to that. If an actor isn't capable of sound real even in a heightened context I would say with absolute confidence that it's a bad performance. For instance, the acting on Power Rangers is awful. It's an enjoyable show, but the acting is subpar. Whether we have the ability to objectively quantify that is irrelevant, little of what they say or emote comes off as real. In real life, we see people be sad or happy, if the performances bear little resemblance to real life or sounds completely fake, it's a bad performance. I find it helpful to think of instance where someone acts other than in just the arts. For instance, if a conman was trying to convince a mark that they are who they say they are, they better be a good actor. If he or she doesn't sound real, it won't be a good, convincing performance.

You are literally saying that you know better than other people just how much their honest opinion can vary compared to your own. If they surpass the limit that you have deduced by yourself, then you know better than them what their honest opinion is and that they are "wrong", even though there is no way to determine that besides your own opinion.

It's the issue of how many hairs or how long constitute a beard. If it's two days growth, it's stubble, but at some point it's a beard. What that point is, who knows, but clearly there's a distinction between stubble and a beard.

[Lord Exor]

Barbara Goodson delivered an absolutely splendid performance as Mother Talzin on The Clone Wars, so at what point is it the fault of the actor rather than the director?

And as we should all be aware, dubbing comes with several limitations and impediments to stellar acting. Personally, I feel Dameon Clarke provides a far greater performance than Ayres given those significant restraints. And of course, his script certainly aids in accomplishing this.

(And we're not honestly comparing Linda to the original Resident Evil, are we? That's really reaching, and even then, Resident Evil itself is nowhere close to scraping the true bottom of the barrel. Take a look at Chaos Wars.)

[KaiserNeko]

Barbara Goodson delivered an absolutely splendid performance as Mother Talzin on The Clone Wars, so at what point is it the fault of the actor rather than the director?

It's not really about Barbara Goodson's ability, is it? It's about her performance, it's quality, and it's charm. Furthermore, how well it represented the character. Bandora and Rita Repulsa are ultimately two very different characters from each other with wildly different interpretations. If you take Rita Repulsa as her own character, she's an incredibly camp character who is aimed at American children. In terms of acting quality, she already had very little chance of ever sounding realistic due to the footage being used (live action is many, many times harder to make sound/look convincing) and the audience it was being aimed at, but the actual acting for Bandora itself was already incredibly over the top. So, yeah, Rita Repulsa's voice as a comparison to Freeza? That is utterly terrible. At no point should Freeza sound like an old woman, much less an old woman with that much camp. But honest to god, I can see the comparison, no problem.

And as we should all be aware, dubbing comes with several limitations and impediments to stellar acting. Personally, I feel Dameon Clarke provides a far greater performance than Ayres given those significant restraints. And of course, his script certainly aids in accomplishing this.

If that's honestly how you feel, fine. I disagree that Dameon Clarke's performance is that much better than Christopher Ayers, if at all, but if that's how you feel? Cool. He really kills the part, so much so that I prefer him to Wakamoto's performance in Kai. There's no conversation about Clarke's Cell in the fandom or among professionals, everyone feels like he did a bang-up job. I thought he was decent when he started in Z, was doing a great job the end of his run in Z, and then had it perfect in Kai. In comparison to Ayers, I think they both stand pretty well next to each other, but there's also the differences in their characters to account for. Freeza has much more complexity than Cell... at least, to me. Ayers captures them all perfectly, from his aristocratic air of arrogance and condescension, his childish petulance when he is denied what he wants, his megalomania, his simmering malice. He swings from haughty and composed in one moment, then screeching and terrifying in the next. That's Freeza.

Linda Young, on the other hand, presents a far less complex character. Her tone is often very samey, the actual range of her emotions is limited, and she never sounds legitimately intimidating. Partially because she doesn't have the energy, partially because she sounds like an old woman trying to act masculine. Because she is an old woman trying to act masculine. There is no honest debate here. She was was imitating Pauline Newstone's voice, which sounded even more like an old woman, she was/is an old woman, and it's a very similar voice she uses to voice other old women. Freeza is not some raspy lizardman. You want that, look to Dameon Clarke's Cell. Freeza is also not completely androgynous. His entire character is modeled in a certain manner that Linda Young never, ever comes close to fully realizing, because she just doesn't have the range for it. She has to constantly keep that over the top, unrealistic, utterly comical voice. She voice acts with broad strokes, slow delivery, and cheesy line reads that are meant to capture the idea of intimidation or anger but sound completely shallow. This shows especially in her laughter. It's the worst, most fake, forced laughter the dub ever presented.

A comparison:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7fASqHz_eE
The difference is night and day, and there's a huge level of complexity to Ayers that is completely lacking in Young's perforamance.

Ayers pulls back, grows softer and melodic when he's being cheeky and condescending, but often follows up with a firmer, more intense delivery to drive the point home. The way he delivers the line,

"I make it at least faintly interesting for myself."

It's dismissive, it's intentionally goading, with a natural and haughty confidence that is leagues more seedy and vile than Young's over the top villain portrayal. And in this scene, after Freeza has struck Nail in the stomach and tossed down his hand, the tone they use is very different. One is over the top, raspy, and unnatrual, coupled with a grating, completely forced laugh, while the other is a legitimately patronizing tone, supported be a cruel yet subtly flamboyant aristocratic air that Ayers voice naturally delivers.

(And we're not honestly comparing Linda to the original Resident Evil, are we? That's really reaching, and even then, Resident Evil itself is nowhere close to scraping the true bottom of the barrel. Take a look at Chaos Wars.)

It's called using extreme examples to help make a point. We can all agree it's acting is bad, so it's being used as an objective example.

What you might consider bad acting is all your own, but in a conversation about what is good or bad, you're going to have people agreeing or disagreeing. If someone told you that the acting in Resident Evil was good, what would you tell them? Would you tell them, "No, it was bad!" Would you follow up with examples? Or would you say, "Well, if that's how you honestly feel. I disagree, but that's okay." Because I flat out said Freeza's acting was bad, and your response to me was to argue that it was not. Which is interesting, because at that point it makes it seem like you can objectively say what is good or bad acting. Personally, I'd say the only people legitimately qualified to do so are professional voice actors or those who have studied the field to a great extent... if they were actually, legitimately qualified, and if you could even say that acting can be objectively good or bad. Then again... Chaos Wars. Resident Evil. We know terrible acting exists.

[Lord Exor]

Not once did I ever mention my stance had any degree of objective veracity.

Linda Young, on the other hand, presents a far less complex character. Her tone is often very samey, the actual range of her emotions is limited, and she never sounds legitimately intimidating. Partially because she doesn't have the energy, partially because she sounds like an old woman trying to act masculine. Because she is an old woman trying to act masculine. There is no honest debate here. She was was imitating Pauline Newstone's voice, which sounded even more like an old woman, she was/is an old woman, and it's a very similar voice she uses to voice other old women. Freeza is not some raspy lizardman. You want that, look to Dameon Clarke's Cell. Freeza is also not completely androgynous. His entire character is modeled in a certain manner that Linda Young never, ever comes close to fully realizing, because she just doesn't have the range for it. She has to constantly keep that over the top, unrealistic, utterly comical voice. She voice acts with broad strokes, slow delivery, and cheesy line reads that are meant to capture the idea of intimidation or anger but sound completely shallow. This shows especially in her laughter. It's the worst, most fake, forced laughter the dub ever presented.

Her range of emotions suffices for the part she's playing; very rarely do I get the impression that her delivery is wooden or lacking in feeling enough to sell the role she's tasked with--and she's certainly far better than Barbara Goodson in Power Rangers. What's interesting to me is that more than half of your examination is couched on suitability to the character, which in this case is entirely immaterial. Frieza in the FUNimation dub is an androgynous raspy lizard man that cracks mordant quips over the suffering he causes, so it's irrelevant to start pontificating over what Frieza should or shouldn't be.

She wasn't an old woman circa 1999, unless you count being middle-aged to be elderly.

And while you laud the niceties of Ayres' performance--which I won't dispute, they are certainly present--I wouldn't call a propensity for awkward speed reading superlative acting in any way, particularly when juxtaposed with the more deliberate delivery you cited as being characteristic of Linda. As an English speaker, hearing Linda talk (EDIT: Darn, they removed the clip. Suffice it to say, when Frieza says "Now, it's time to pull back the curtain and let the third and final act begin.") sounds far more intuitive than Ayres' rush to fit as many words as possible into the short time span allowed by the mouth flapping. Is that Ayres' fault? No, and do I take umbrage with his florid speeches? Not intrinsically, but in this context I do. That sort of thing would only work well when prepared for a production native to the English language; it sounds rather grating when applied to the dub of a foreign production.

And unfortunately with dub work, there's always some degree of exaggeration in the acting--it's endemic to the business. Not even Ayres has the same conversational fluidity that comes with actors performing for a Western cartoon.

I never did say Linda was a better actor than Ayres, but for the role--as adapted by FUNimation--she was given, she does a fine job, and is hardly even close to the worst performances I've ever heard.