Best Freeza dub voice?

[Singh is King]

I have to say that the Kai dub in generally is not flawless in terms of voice acting (nor am I accusing anyone of making said claim, but I don't think people who prefer any of the Z voices have "nostalgia goggles" on- I see this term thrown around far too much in general and not here, which is why I bring it up-- I find this a cheap way to get out of actually addressing people's points-- KaiserNeko obviously didn't do this alone and actually used fair logic to justify his points, but just saying I really dislike when people use that term in general).

Now Linda Young, while severely miscast as Frieza IMHO, at least put out a better performance as Frieza than Sean does as King Kai or Chris does as Recoome currently. By no means am I saying that's exactly anything to be proud of, but I can kind of see why some like that creepier aspect of her take more: I myself definitely prefer Ayres as to me he embodies Frieza in English with his mannerisms, elegant yet regal way of being a smug prick, as well as sounding very refined like Nakao, but it's just a matter of opinion in the end.

Now the script writing, however, I don't think any of us can deny is leagues better than it ever was in the Z dub (personally).

[gohann]

The script writing was really what screwed Linda Young over at her best. Chris Ayres isn't having to say things like "Alright, big guy, whatever turns you on", no one would sound good saying that.

[ABED]

The script writing was really what screwed Linda Young over at her best. Chris Ayres isn't having to say things like "Alright, big guy, whatever turns you on", no one would sound good saying that.

But he could lessen the damage. Young's performance can't be saved at all. She's not a very good actress and not suited for Freeza in the least. Her Genkai is probably her best performance and even that was a weak performance.

Now Linda Young, while severely miscast as Freeza IMHO, at least put out a better performance as Freeza than Sean does as King Kai or Chris does as Recoome currently

Reacoom is in far fewer episodes, and Freeza is a big bad, not a supporting character.

[Singh is King]

Reacoom is in far fewer episodes, and Freeza is a big bad, not a supporting character.

I agree with that, don't get me wrong, but I'm just saying she at least wasn't the worst.

[ABED]

Reacoom is in far fewer episodes, and Freeza is a big bad, not a supporting character.

I agree with that, don't get me wrong, but I'm just saying she at least wasn't the worst.

I'll still take the worst voice over FAR fewer episodes than a terrible voice over a significant stretch of episodes in a far more prominent role.

[Singh is King]

Reacoom is in far fewer episodes, and Freeza is a big bad, not a supporting character.

I agree with that, don't get me wrong, but I'm just saying she at least wasn't the worst.

I'll still take the worst voice over FAR fewer episodes than a terrible voice over a significant stretch of episodes in a far more prominent role.

Same here, but just saying, it's technically not the worst.

Also we have King Kai who shows up more often than Recoome does over the course of the Series at times and he sounds worse than Linda's Frieza did so there's that as well.

The script writing was really what screwed Linda Young over at her best. Chris Ayres isn't having to say things like "Alright, big guy, whatever turns you on", no one would sound good saying that.

Let's not forget:

"Giddy up, ride 'em cowboy, yee-haw buckaroo"
"A backscratcher...I'm good, HOW do I come up with these things"
"Little old me?"
"Pop goes the weasel!"

In general the Z dub's script writing was atrocious early on, like:

"Mondo cool"
"That happy healer"
"Alright, baldy, tear a strip out of me because otherwise we're doomed."
"Done like dinner!"
"Helping people can be fun, too!"
"All alone, doomed without any mascara on!"

What I'm getting at is that pretty much anyone will sound worse with bad dialogue/script writing given to them.

[ABED]

Also we have King Kai who shows up more often than Recoome does over the course of the Series at times and he sounds worse than Linda's Freeza did so there's that as well

That's debatable.

[Singh is King]

Also we have King Kai who shows up more often than Recoome does over the course of the Series at times and he sounds worse than Linda's Freeza did so there's that as well

That's debatable.

Agreed there.

[Lord Exor]

And do you think Freeza cares one iota about the importance of Krillin to Goku? An off-color, completely irreverent quip like that only punctuates how apathetic Freeza is to Goku's plight. Actually, apathetic wouldn't be the proper adjective here; I think purposefully brutal would be more apt. He doesn't care who Krillin is or how the man was an "important fixture of Son Goku's formative years." Krillin is nothing but that "little bald guy" to him, and he knows it will deeply hurt Goku. He just murdered your best friend, and now he's making fun of him. How would that make you feel?

You're struggling to process the pertinence of it because you're clearly quite obstinate in your views. Each of my examples drew upon instances where the initial ideation behind the development of a concept was discarded or amended over time for a variety of reasons, and it worked on a variety of levels. You're arguing for conservatism for conservatism's sake; if you have a deeper rationale I'm very open to hear it, but from what I can gather, it seems that you personally enjoy that take, and therefore use its status as the originator to validate your own belief. Also, please don't throw an indignant tantrum, for I wish to interact with you amicably. This is a simple debate, and it would be a shame if elevated emotions interfered with peaceful discourse. The ardent repetition of your personal antipathy to a variety of ideas isn't conducive to the healthy expression of thought.

Far more enjoyable to you. Again, you are dressing your own opinion as fact.

I want to address that last bit: Of course I'm presenting personal opinion as fact from time to time. Otherwise I'd spend half of this conversation saying "In my opinion." or "To me." I'm also relying on the opinions of the people dubbing Kai (who all have expressed feelings of delight and positivity over this new dub compared to their older efforts, including Christopher Sabat, who's been working on the series since Funimation started their own in house dub) and the general consensus of the forum at large. not to mention, it's undeniable that the acting is miles ahead of what it used to be, as is the script. Nobody can deny that, and those who do (in my opinion) are stuck with their nostalgia goggles or lack an idea of quality.

As for your first point, I don't care about Freeza's attitude over Kuririn. That's not my problem with that line at all; the original and Kai both showed an utter lack of concern over Goku or Krillin. My problem is that the line is utterly corny, and utterly mishandles the tone of the scene. "Pop goes the weasel"? What, is Freeza 10 years old? Is that the best he's got in his arsenal? The line in Kai and the original has him targeting his son next, which is infinitely more intimidating and pertinent than some cliche, corny, culturally relevant nursery rhyme.

You can go ahead and deconstruct my attitude about all of this, accuse me of tantrums, criticize the manner of which I approach your point of view. But you're not doing much to refute my points, nor are you making me want to converse with you any more. I'm being frank with you: I do not care about certain aspects you referred to, as they ultimately do not impact my personal view on how the character should be handled. I don't care about localization, nor do I believe that fans should dictate the development of a character. Localization should never alter the spirit and core concept of a character, and fans don't have the right.

Well, I didn't want it to come to this, but your appeal to a majority--what is actually a vocal minority existing on this forum and a few others--is a fallacy. And once more, you're flippantly dismissing my purview without offering any real justification beyond a fallacy and your refusal to even debate properly. In that case, yes, I don't want to converse with you further. There's no point having a conversation with someone pugnaciously stuck in their own ways. I at least conceded that Ayres is respectable.

The script writing was really what screwed Linda Young over at her best. Chris Ayres isn't having to say things like "Alright, big guy, whatever turns you on", no one would sound good saying that.

And to be fair, I would much rather hear that line coming from Linda than Chris.

[ABED]

Well, I didn't want it to come to this, but your appeal to a majority--what is actually a vocal minority existing on this forum and a few others--is a fallacy. And once more, you're flippantly dismissing my purview without offering any real justification beyond a fallacy and your refusal to even debate properly. In that case, yes, I don't want to converse with you further. There's no point having a conversation with someone pugnaciously stuck in their own ways. I at least conceded that Ayres is respectable.

While I might agree that we're in a minority, the reasons for that aren't necessarily for the right reasons. I'm absolutely positive Ayres would be remembered as fondly by the majority of dub fans had he been there from the beginning. And what in his argument makes you think he didn't debate properly. He gave ample reasons why he held his views, including going back to the source material, i.e. the manga. And how is KaiserNeko anymore stuck in his ways than you are in your's? Is your sole reason for believeing that because you acknowledge Ayres is a good actor. It's very possible Kasier doesn't believe Young was a good actress or fit for the part no matter how much you point and counter point.

[KaiserNeko]

Well, I didn't want it to come to this, but your appeal to a majority--what is actually a vocal minority existing on this forum and a few others--is a fallacy. And once more, you're flippantly dismissing my purview without offering any real justification beyond a fallacy and your refusal to even debate properly. In that case, yes, I don't want to converse with you further. There's no point having a conversation with someone pugnaciously stuck in their own ways. I at least conceded that Ayres is respectable.

Maybe you just want to have a conversation that I never had any interest in having. My entire point of view was on the proper localization of the character and why Linda Young was an unfaithful attempt at doing so, and how that is (TO ME) absolutely a negative in terms of dubbing the character. I never wanted to debate the benefits of localization, fans having a say in the development of a series/localization of a product/etc. I never even actually appealed to majority; I in fact openly stated that I was empathizing with the folks in this forum and in the official studio dubbing the series. Out of anything, that second part an appeal to authority. Which is still a fallacy, but I'd rather side with the professionals over most of the people who support Linda Young as Freeza.

Whilst I have at least openly and politely responded to most of your points, I've not gone out of my way to try and deconstruct the conversation and pull the rug out from under you to try and belittle your point of view. I've only made it openly obvious what conversation I wanted to have at large. I've already talked at length about the necessities in adaptation, the dangers of localization, and here? I already gave my opinion on how Freeza should be handled, and made my initial rebuttal to your original point of view that unfairly criticized those who took issue with Linda Young's Freeza as a double standard compared to Sean Schemmel as Goku.

[Cure Dragon 255]

And do you think Freeza cares one iota about the importance of Krillin to Goku? An off-color, completely irreverent quip like that only punctuates how apathetic Freeza is to Goku's plight. Actually, apathetic wouldn't be the proper adjective here; I think purposefully brutal would be more apt. He doesn't care who Krillin is or how the man was an "important fixture of Son Goku's formative years." Krillin is nothing but that "little bald guy" to him, and he knows it will deeply hurt Goku. He just murdered your best friend, and now he's making fun of him. How would that make you feel?

You're struggling to process the pertinence of it because you're clearly quite obstinate in your views. Each of my examples drew upon instances where the initial ideation behind the development of a concept was discarded or amended over time for a variety of reasons, and it worked on a variety of levels. You're arguing for conservatism for conservatism's sake; if you have a deeper rationale I'm very open to hear it, but from what I can gather, it seems that you personally enjoy that take, and therefore use its status as the originator to validate your own belief. Also, please don't throw an indignant tantrum, for I wish to interact with you amicably. This is a simple debate, and it would be a shame if elevated emotions interfered with peaceful discourse. The ardent repetition of your personal antipathy to a variety of ideas isn't conducive to the healthy expression of thought.

Far more enjoyable to you. Again, you are dressing your own opinion as fact.

I want to address that last bit: Of course I'm presenting personal opinion as fact from time to time. Otherwise I'd spend half of this conversation saying "In my opinion." or "To me." I'm also relying on the opinions of the people dubbing Kai (who all have expressed feelings of delight and positivity over this new dub compared to their older efforts, including Christopher Sabat, who's been working on the series since Funimation started their own in house dub) and the general consensus of the forum at large. not to mention, it's undeniable that the acting is miles ahead of what it used to be, as is the script. Nobody can deny that, and those who do (in my opinion) are stuck with their nostalgia goggles or lack an idea of quality.

As for your first point, I don't care about Freeza's attitude over Kuririn. That's not my problem with that line at all; the original and Kai both showed an utter lack of concern over Goku or Krillin. My problem is that the line is utterly corny, and utterly mishandles the tone of the scene. "Pop goes the weasel"? What, is Freeza 10 years old? Is that the best he's got in his arsenal? The line in Kai and the original has him targeting his son next, which is infinitely more intimidating and pertinent than some cliche, corny, culturally relevant nursery rhyme.

You can go ahead and deconstruct my attitude about all of this, accuse me of tantrums, criticize the manner of which I approach your point of view. But you're not doing much to refute my points, nor are you making me want to converse with you any more. I'm being frank with you: I do not care about certain aspects you referred to, as they ultimately do not impact my personal view on how the character should be handled. I don't care about localization, nor do I believe that fans should dictate the development of a character. Localization should never alter the spirit and core concept of a character, and fans don't have the right.

Well, I didn't want it to come to this, but your appeal to a majority--what is actually a vocal minority existing on this forum and a few others--is a fallacy. And once more, you're flippantly dismissing my purview without offering any real justification beyond a fallacy and your refusal to even debate properly. In that case, yes, I don't want to converse with you further. There's no point having a conversation with someone pugnaciously stuck in their own ways. I at least conceded that Ayres is respectable.

The script writing was really what screwed Linda Young over at her best. Chris Ayres isn't having to say things like "Alright, big guy, whatever turns you on", no one would sound good saying that.

And to be fair, I would much rather hear that line coming from Linda than Chris.

Ok, now I just have to intervene.

Do you know that the USA was along with a handful(like 3 or 4) of other English territories the only ones that altered Freeza like that? That every other dub kept him male and close to the original? That in Japan as many as 20 million watched the anime and even more bought the manga? I do understand that you love Linda and that its not a sin to prefer her over anyone else, you almost had me with your other arguments. But the whole "It was most popular here and we loved it best" thing is frankly silly and I cant take anyone who thinks like that seriously.

[Lord Exor]

An appeal to "authority" is no less a fallacy. Moreover, an unwillingness to discuss the finer details of a particular counterpoint is failing to debate properly, as you're making it limpidly clear there are certain things you refuse to discuss.

What we have here is a conservative viewpoint, but one that at the onset stubbornly refused to grant legitimacy to the opposition. Had you simply constructed your posts differently, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation, but the fact of the matter is that you were quite confrontational. I respect that you feel Linda is not appropriate to what you believe Frieza should be, and I'm happy for you that Ayres comports with your vision.

I've had people controvert similar points with me elsewhere and within different communities; some as absurd as debating whether or not Darth Sidious should be seen dual-wielding lightsabers and performing acrobatics, simply because his original representation may have indicated otherwise; others over the semantics of "Robotnik" versus "Eggman." Each time this idea of faithfulness arises, I default to the pragmatic belief that if a change disregarding a source can benefit a product, I am in full support. I can tell you that my preference for Linda Young is entirely separate from any nostalgia I may feel toward the original dub. For instance, I grew up with Dale Kelly as Captain Ginyu, but I prefer Brice Armstrong; I was introduced to Star Wars through the Original Trilogy at age five, but I favor the alterations Lucas made over the years with subsequent releases, and even adore the Prequel Trilogy; I discovered Transformers through Generation 2 (re-aired Generation 1 episodes), and yet my favorite iteration of the property is Beast Machines.

As for my point referencing the USA's consumption of Dragon Ball Z, I never once stated that it entitled us to do with it as we saw fit, merely that it was acceptable for us to have done so.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I do not like Ayres either. Dont assume things like that. I'm from Latin America. I do not support either English version and I quite do want to discuss with you with actual arguments and without anger.

Actually, while our version is PRETTY damn serious, the actor for Freeza (Gerardo Reyero) says to Krillin "Stay Put! Cant you see I'm going to kill you" in a pretty funny way just as he kills him. It adds to the charm of the dub I'm most familiar with. I would not change it.

I did not appeal to majority until you did. You said and I quote:

I'm fairly certain that DBZ as a property was far more popular overseas than in its native Japan, which isn't to say that it isn't also popular in Japan, but that our demographic should have a major influence on the direction of the franchise.

Well, many of these western dubs are carbon copies of the Japanese version. I do have a reason for faithfulness to the original. If you feel you want to make an foreign cartoons a certain way, why not just make your own cartoon instead? AThe original as flawed as it may be still has a certain artistic vision. Any cartoon has an artistic vision. Japanese Fans didnt like Gag DUb Beast Wars. You are right, Japanese dont treat our shows with baby gloves.

Again, I do not resent you. Your arguments, sans that one about it being more popular overseas and that Japan should pander to this section, are extremely solid and compelling. I dont like pandering, either Japan or Western fans. The show should follow its artistic vision without pandering to a section of the fanbase.


I do want to show you I'm willing to accept certain changes in dubs.

There's this show called Futari Wa Pretty Cure. It got dubbed recently. The voices are pretty solid but quite different. One Character in particular Hannah(Honoka in the original) had a EXTREMELY cute (Sickeningly moe like) like voice. This kind of voices are pretty hard to pull off in english so they just casted a soft spoken voice for the character but who was able to portray her quite well otherwise, which is a valid choice. This same characters is friends with one of the villains who is played by a woman in the original but its a guy in the dub. Again, they went for the voice that was able to pull of his scenes. He at one point goes into a selfish rant which feels manchild-ish with his male voice, but adds a lot to the scene because it shows how alien he is as he isnt human but an extension of the main villain the Dark King (Who was The Evil King in Japanese,I definitely feel the dub more here).

I think dubs should try to be different from the original japanese, because fans of the japanese are already familiar with the original japanese production, Ideally it should introduce people who are unfamiliar with the japanese production . But I think its extremely arrogant to do what Funimation did and alter it that much. Sure, Fans of the Japanese can be extremely arrogant as well too but at least they are just bickering on a forum. Funimation took an artistic vision and warped it to their liking. You can love the results and even like them better than the Japanese but its still extremely arrogant to actually alter stuff and think you know better than the people who worked on the original. I

Again, you arent arrogant, its Funimation.

[GS7X7]

"But he could lessen the damage."

TBH, Freeza's homoerotic dialogue would probably sound MUCH worse with a more masculine voice than with the creepy alien-like voice Linda used.

It's kind odd they insisted on giving Freeza a gay vibe, kinda reminds me of the general complaint in this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XdmJXHJLZ6M

[Lord Exor]

Those lines are ambiguous enough to not immediately evoke homoeroticism, and "alright big guy, whatever turns you on" is supposed to be a sarcastic comment disparaging Goku's hubris.

Nevertheless, quotes such as "... this way I won't break my nails, alright?" most assuredly intend on confusing Frieza's gender identity.

[theoriginalbilis]

I'm not saying that an accurate script wouldn't have helped Young's performance as Freeza, but her voice and dialogue always came off as "80's-Saturday-morning-cartoon-villain" to me. I never really found Freeza intimidating or threatening until I saw the Japanese version years later. That performance might work for one of Cobra's flunkies, maybe.

Nakao and Ayres totally sell Freeza for me, my least favorite Dragon Ball villain afterwards became my favorite villain in all of anime, maybe even my favorite fictional villain ever. Their renditions of Freeza come off a much more sinister to me.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Those lines are ambiguous enough to not immediately evoke homoeroticism, and "alright big guy, whatever turns you on" is supposed to be a sarcastic comment disparaging Goku's hubris.

Nevertheless, quotes such as "... this way I won't break my nails, alright?" most assuredly intend on confusing Freeza's gender identity.

I would love to see you comment on my post. Your point of view is interesting to say the least. I really like talking to people with different opinions than me if they are polite and all. I'm sorry if this post has a "RESPOND TO MY POST DAMMIT" subtext LOL.

[Lord Exor]

I think you have a slew of excellent points. It may have been presumptuous of them to alter the dialogue in such a way as to shift the character's personality--if even slightly--but I don't consider the simple choice of casting a woman in the role of Frieza to be one of those transgressions.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Wow. I actually got you to understand me. Wow.

I'm glad you found my points reasonable enough. I actually was looking forward to a long chat LOL. I'm pretty glad it wasnt necesary though. LOL.