Did Gohan really get the shaft?

[jcogginsa]

I see the opinion that Gohan was generally screwed over by Toriyama a lot. However, i don't quite agree.

Look at Gohan at the end of the series. What does he have? A beautiful, loving wife. A happy, loving daughter. A good relationship with his family. A job he likes. Essentially, he's got it made. He gets basically everything he ever wanted out of life.

Sure, he's not the strongest character in the series nor the one who ultimately saves the day, but he's never really cared about being either.

He seems to have gotten the overall happiest ending of all the characters

[Kamiccolo9]

I see the opinion that Gohan was generally screwed over by Toriyama a lot. However, i don't quite agree.

Look at Gohan at the end of the series. What does he have? A beautiful, loving wife. A happy, loving daughter. A good relationship with his family. A job he likes. Essentially, he's got it made. He gets basically everything he ever wanted out of life.

Sure, he's not the strongest character in the series nor the one who ultimately saves the day, but he's never really cared about being either.

He seems to have gotten the overall happiest ending of all the characters

Agreed.

Honestly, Gohan had everything he wanted at the beginning of the Buu Arc. If his story had ended there, I would have been fine with it. But Toriyama insisted on building him up again, and going nowhere with it.

[Lord Beerus]

I see the opinion that Gohan was generally screwed over by Toriyama a lot. However, i don't quite agree.

Look at Gohan at the end of the series. What does he have? A beautiful, loving wife. A happy, loving daughter. A good relationship with his family. A job he likes. Essentially, he's got it made. He gets basically everything he ever wanted out of life.

Sure, he's not the strongest character in the series nor the one who ultimately saves the day, but he's never really cared about being either.

He seems to have gotten the overall happiest ending of all the characters

You much answered your own question. I never felt Gohan got the shaft in any degree. He was the strongest character on several occasions, saved the universe, defeated a main villain and as you already said, ended up with a beautiful wife, a lovely daughter, a strong relationship with friends and family and became a freaking scholar, living essentially the life of millionaire.

And he still remained extremely relevant as far the story went. By the he was no longer relevant to the story, there's were literally one major battle and then Dragon Ball ended.

He hit the jackpot as far as I'm concerned.

[mikey4111]

I think he should of beat Super Buu and have the saga end there. The build up of him training with the Z-sword and then unlocking his ultimate power was such a waste.

[Lord Beerus]

I think he should of beat Super Buu and have the saga end there. The build up of him training with the Z-sword and then unlocking his ultimate power was such a waste.

Hell, if anything Goku should have beaten Majin Boo. Thus making SSJ3 much less redundant then it later turned out to be. I mean technically Gohan already has his ultimate power unlocked prior to the Old Kai ritual... twice.

[sbk]

Yes, his whole character development was completely derailed in the Buu arc. The shafting wasn't as bad compared to the new movies though.

I don't think him being a student/scholar/parent means he has to be so useless and irrelevant. Many people here seem to think being a scholar/parent and being relevant in mutually exclusive for some reason

In Dragon Ball Online he researches ki, which is actually a cool idea. Have him train his ki to find out and learn more about ki! The scholar aspect of him could actually be made into an asset to his battle skills, rather than a detriment.

Instead his powers are stripped and he's basically the new Yamcha, and he's only here to power up Goku. If that's not getting screwed over I don't know what is. It'd be better if Toriyama/Toei just didn't include him at all in the new stories tbh

[sayian_nation_]

In my opinion he didn't get the shaft. In fact, I like how they made it known that he was the strongest but took him down the family guy route. If he was the strongest think about how predictable DBZ would be. There'd be nothing to worry about, Gohan has this in the bag.

[dbzfan7]

Yes, his whole character development was completely derailed in the Buu arc. The shafting wasn't as bad compared to the new movies though.

I don't think him being a student/scholar/parent means he has to be so useless and irrelevant. Many people here seem to think being a scholar/parent and being relevant in mutually exclusive for some reason

In Dragon Ball Online he researches ki, which is actually a cool idea. Have him train his ki to find out and learn more about ki! The scholar aspect of him could actually be made into an asset to his battle skills, rather than a detriment.

Instead his powers are stripped and he's basically the new Yamcha, and he's only here to power up Goku. If that's not getting screwed over I don't know what is. It'd be better if Toriyama/Toei just didn't include him at all in the new stories tbh

This entirely.

When I say he got shafted, I don't mean Goku or Vegeta getting stronger than him. That is not a problem since it happens a lot. The problem is the build up went buttfuck no where in the Boo arc. You could literally as some people said, cut it to SSJ3 Goku killing Fat Boo. Or you could just have had Gohan die, and have Goku and Vegeta come in right after Gotenks. Ultimate Gohan as much as I like him, was pretty much made into padding. Speaking of which Gotenks was also shafted too. His build up went no where. At least for Piccolo we knew he had to fall, or else Cell would never reach Perfect Form. He was doomed to fail or we'd never see the power Cell talked about.

With his powers being stripped from him and handed off to Goku & Vegeta, I can soon label Gohan as the Tails of this series. Another character who had his abilities stripped from him too.

[fadeddreams5]

Yeah, he got the shaft. But this isn't anything new. Toriyama seems to hate the character he himself created after the Cell saga. It's common; you try to further develop or create a new character that sounds great on paper, but doesn't quite live up to your own expectations, so you quietly give him the shaft.

I hate the him being a family man / studious argument for several reasons:
1. Let's start with the end of the Cell saga. Goku died. That Goku. The one everyone expects to protect the Earth when things go haywire. At this point in the story, Gohan sees himself gifted with a power so great, he could single-handedly protect everyone from any harm, ever. However, he stops training altogether. You can make many arguments as to why he stopped: peaceful times, Chi Chi nagging, his dislike of fighting, and blah blah blah. The problem is that this doesn't make a good character. Almost no one prefers the Gohan he became to the one from the Cell saga.

This should have been a period of self-preservation, combined with a strong desire to be a protector after the Earth lost its greatest hero. He could have been studious without neglecting his training, especially after his little brother was born, which should have reminded him of his role as the older brother and the fact that there is no father in the household. What sets Gohan apart from Goku is that he's a tad more serious during dire times. Yeah, he doesn't enjoy fighting, but he sure as hell hates seeing others harmed, and he loves life. He could have been developed into a great main protagonist. Instead, we get a pansy that's quickly stripped of his stardom in favor of Goku and Vegeta. That said, despite the negative change Gohan went through, he still had a kickass moment when he acquired his mystic power-up. He was finally back in the spotlight and ready to beat the main villain... only he doesn't.

2. Now we fast forward after the Buu saga. After Gohan redeemed himself, he went back down to being a shitty character. He's no longer the strongest unfused character, he may not have his mystic powers anymore, he looks like an uncool dork, his hidden powers are no longer unique to him (e.g. Vegeta's rage boost), and his roles have gotten smaller. So again, I'm hearing that it's because he's a family man. Why should this matter? There could be scenarios where he keeps his powers, and even becomes stronger, without training. That, or he can still train and do all the things he does anyways. At this point in the story, he would definitely not serve as a good main protagonist, but that's no excuse for taking his powers away from him and making him fodder on par with the human characters. Okay, he has a family, so why not let that be his motivation to train?

[TJVY]

I think that if Gohan had never gotten his Mystic form there wouldn't be many people thinking he had gotten the shaft. I wish Elder Kai gave it someone else rather than him, Toriyama doesn't really seem to care much for his character anymore - which is understandable though.

What more could you do with someone like Gohan by this point, but then again, I suppose the same could be said for any other character...

[dbzfan7]

I think that if Gohan had never gotten his Mystic form there wouldn't be many people thinking he had gotten the shaft. I wish Elder Kai gave it someone else rather than him, Toriyama doesn't really seem to care much for his character anymore - which is understandable though.

What more could you do with someone like Gohan by this point, but then again, I suppose the same could be said for any other character...

Well first of all Toriyama should have focused on Goku's afterlife time more than Gohan if he'd go this route. That way people would still think he got shafted, but then we'd know Gohan beating Cell was a one time shine thing. Instead they focused on Gohan and the next gen for some time, with Goku not quite taking back the main spot. Goku finally became the main character and focus once he was brought back to life.

Exactly. Really any character can be brought up, or put down. Even Goku isn't this as there's been plenty of times where the focus isn't on him in Z. Everything depends on what the writer wants. Krillin could become special, Piccolo could be a huge power house or become a saviour on namek, it all depends on if the creator cares about the character or not.

[TJVY]

I think that if Gohan had never gotten his Mystic form there wouldn't be many people thinking he had gotten the shaft. I wish Elder Kai gave it someone else rather than him, Toriyama doesn't really seem to care much for his character anymore - which is understandable though.

What more could you do with someone like Gohan by this point, but then again, I suppose the same could be said for any other character...

Well first of all Toriyama should have focused on Goku's afterlife time more than Gohan if he'd go this route. That way people would still think he got shafted, but then we'd know Gohan beating Cell was a one time shine thing. Instead they focused on Gohan and the next gen for some time, with Goku not quite taking back the main spot. Goku finally became the main character and focus once he was brought back to life.

Exactly. Really any character can be brought up, or put down. Even Goku isn't this as there's been plenty of times where the focus isn't on him in Z. Everything depends on what the writer wants. Krillin could become special, Piccolo could be a huge power house or become a saviour on namek, it all depends on if the creator cares about the character or not.

Yeah I was going to mention that in my first post too, very good points. I dunno, everything after the Cell arc to me just feels all over the place, the God arc on the other hand seems to be going in a cohesive direction though.

[dbzfan7]

I think that if Gohan had never gotten his Mystic form there wouldn't be many people thinking he had gotten the shaft. I wish Elder Kai gave it someone else rather than him, Toriyama doesn't really seem to care much for his character anymore - which is understandable though.

What more could you do with someone like Gohan by this point, but then again, I suppose the same could be said for any other character...

Well first of all Toriyama should have focused on Goku's afterlife time more than Gohan if he'd go this route. That way people would still think he got shafted, but then we'd know Gohan beating Cell was a one time shine thing. Instead they focused on Gohan and the next gen for some time, with Goku not quite taking back the main spot. Goku finally became the main character and focus once he was brought back to life.

Exactly. Really any character can be brought up, or put down. Even Goku isn't this as there's been plenty of times where the focus isn't on him in Z. Everything depends on what the writer wants. Krillin could become special, Piccolo could be a huge power house or become a saviour on namek, it all depends on if the creator cares about the character or not.

Yeah I was going to mention that in my first post too, very good points. I dunno, everything after the Cell arc to me just feels all over the place, the God arc on the other hand seems to be going in a cohesive direction though.

I agree the Boo arc is all over the place. As much as on a story front I'm not impressed by the god stuff (I still enjoy it), it is far easier to follow and doesn't get confusing structure wise.

[TJVY]

I agree the Boo arc is all over the place. As much as on a story front I'm not impressed by the god stuff (I still enjoy it), it is far easier to follow and doesn't get confusing structure wise.

Yeah, like the God arc isn't that impressive so far story wise, we've been introduced to another new power-up and brought back an old villain so far. God only knows what the third film is going to bring to the table (Assuming that there is one), but like you said, it's enjoyable and much more linear.

Hopefully this more streamlined way of story-telling will avoid giving characters 'the shaft'.

[jcogginsa]

On the bright side, the new characters are interesting

[dbzfan7]

I agree the Boo arc is all over the place. As much as on a story front I'm not impressed by the god stuff (I still enjoy it), it is far easier to follow and doesn't get confusing structure wise.

Yeah, like the God arc isn't that impressive so far story wise, we've been introduced to another new power-up and brought back an old villain so far. God only knows what the third film is going to bring to the table (Assuming that there is one), but like you said, it's enjoyable and much more linear.

Hopefully this more streamlined way of story-telling will avoid giving characters 'the shaft'.

I agree. I enjoy Beerus and Whis. I enjoy the new films to an extent. I had a good time watching it the first time, and in theaters. Details may piss me off, but they don't ruin the movie for me. They just annoy me. I believe the new structure while simple, at least doesn't jump all over the place.

On the bright side, the new characters are interesting

Well except for Tagoma possibly.

[bleed0range]

Yeah, he got the shaft. But this isn't anything new. Toriyama seems to hate the character he himself created after the Cell saga. It's common; you try to further develop or create a new character that sounds great on paper, but doesn't quite live up to your own expectations, so you quietly give him the shaft.

I hate the him being a family man / studious argument for several reasons:
1. Let's start with the end of the Cell saga. Goku died. That Goku. The one everyone expects to protect the Earth when things go haywire. At this point in the story, Gohan sees himself gifted with a power so great, he could single-handedly protect everyone from any harm, ever. However, he stops training altogether. You can make many arguments as to why he stopped: peaceful times, Chi Chi nagging, his dislike of fighting, and blah blah blah. The problem is that this doesn't make a good character. Almost no one prefers the Gohan he became to the one from the Cell saga.

This should have been a period of self-preservation, combined with a strong desire to be a protector after the Earth lost its greatest hero. He could have been studious without neglecting his training, especially after his little brother was born, which should have reminded him of his role as the older brother and the fact that there is no father in the household. What sets Gohan apart from Goku is that he's a tad more serious during dire times. Yeah, he doesn't enjoy fighting, but he sure as hell hates seeing others harmed, and he loves life. He could have been developed into a great main protagonist. Instead, we get a pansy that's quickly stripped of his stardom in favor of Goku and Vegeta. That said, despite the negative change Gohan went through, he still had a kickass moment when he acquired his mystic power-up. He was finally back in the spotlight and ready to beat the main villain... only he doesn't.

2. Now we fast forward after the Buu saga. After Gohan redeemed himself, he went back down to being a shitty character. He's no longer the strongest unfused character, he may not have his mystic powers anymore, he looks like an uncool dork, his hidden powers are no longer unique to him (e.g. Vegeta's rage boost), and his roles have gotten smaller. So again, I'm hearing that it's because he's a family man. Why should this matter? There could be scenarios where he keeps his powers, and even becomes stronger, without training. That, or he can still train and do all the things he does anyways. At this point in the story, he would definitely not serve as a good main protagonist, but that's no excuse for taking his powers away from him and making him fodder on par with the human characters. Okay, he has a family, so why not let that be his motivation to train?

It's easy to become weak during peaceful times, especially when you're already as strong as Gohan was and you don't particularly love fighting. Goku and Vegeta thrive on training and so it isn't a chore to do so. Gohan doesn't, he always trained because he grew up around constant threats. He HAD to. Gohan also was a kid and wanted to be like Piccolo and Goku. So he was trying to be just like them at the same time he was doing what it took to stop real threats.

After that Gohan likely trained, but never as hard and never as seriously. There just were no threats. He probably underestimated the possibility of anyone being a match for him again. When he got the power-up through Mystic, sure he was stronger then Buu... but he didn't outsmart him.

At the end of the day it shows that whether you like it or not... Goku is still the genius fighter who makes training and fighting his life. Gohan just isn't his father no matter how much he'd like to be. It's unlikely Goku would have wound up in the same position as Gohan if he had fought buu at that time. I think it makes sense, Gohan is willing to do what it takes to defeat an evil threat but he has never been the most tactical fighter. Not even in his younger years. He usually only beat or inflicted damage on enemies by overpowering them. Gohan didn't even see his opening with the one-handed kamehameha until Goku spelled it out for him "NOWWWWW!!!" Goku was the one who hand-held him to becoming a SSJ2. He used his intellect with fighting to get him there since he himself didn't possess the strength at that time. Gohan couldn't have done that alone.

[fadeddreams5]

It's easy to become weak during peaceful times, especially when you're already as strong as Gohan was and you don't particularly love fighting. Goku and Vegeta thrive on training and so it isn't a chore to do so. Gohan doesn't, he always trained because he grew up around constant threats. He HAD to. Gohan also was a kid and wanted to be like Piccolo and Goku. So he was trying to be just like them at the same time he was doing what it took to stop real threats.

After that Gohan likely trained, but never as hard and never as seriously. There just were no threats. He probably underestimated the possibility of anyone being a match for him again. When he got the power-up through Mystic, sure he was stronger then Buu... but he didn't outsmart him.

At the end of the day it shows that whether you like it or not... Goku is still the genius fighter who makes training and fighting his life. Gohan just isn't his father no matter how much he'd like to be. It's unlikely Goku would have wound up in the same position as Gohan if he had fought buu at that time. I think it makes sense, Gohan is willing to do what it takes to defeat an evil threat but he has never been the most tactical fighter. Not even in his younger years. He usually only beat or inflicted damage on enemies by overpowering them. Gohan didn't even see his opening with the one-handed kamehameha until Goku spelled it out for him "NOWWWWW!!!" Goku was the one who hand-held him to becoming a SSJ2. He used his intellect with fighting to get him there since he himself didn't possess the strength at that time. Gohan couldn't have done that alone.

Everything you wrote makes sense in an in-universe context. I understand why the character became the way he did, as was written by Toriyama. But wouldn't you have liked Gohan to train, even if it's not his hobby like Goku? To develop more as a fighter in his own right after the absence of his father? For there NOT to be peaceful times for 7 whole years? That large time skip is part of the problem, really; he was never developed any further after the Cell games, and we just kind of had to accept that he slacked off for many years and became the way he did. =P

[NitroEX]

All the things you listed are pretty superficial though, at least to the audience. Toriyama hardly developed the relationship with VIdel, she just kind of landed in his lap. All the important moments between them happened off screen so it's hard to truly care about that or see it as a triumph for Gohan when (to us) he never worked for it (Toriyama couldn't even let him kill Spopovich for crying out loud and that guy nearly killed her!).
Maybe it would be a more satisfying conclusion if Gohan had been infatuated with Videl from the beginning and had been the one chasing her instead of actively avoiding her in the beginning. If they had more screen time to connect it would be meaningful but the way Toriyama did it just fails miserably on all levels.

It's the same thing with Pan and his work that he apparently "always wanted". We barely saw him interact with Pan or even hint at wanting to be a father so giving him a kid means very little to me. When he was a child he didn't exactly love being forced to work and study so why should I suddenly like that he's a bookworm? I remember reading some Dragonball online lore about Gohan writing books about Ki control, that sounded pretty interesting but none of that is in the main story so, again, I don't care.

Gohan not being the hero isn't even that big of a deal (though it does kind of defeat the purpose of the Cell arc ending) the problem is he literally did nothing but fail throughout the Buu arc. Toriyama couldn't even give him one victory or moment of retribution throughout the whole thing. It was a total waste of a character that we have been invested in since the Saiyan arc. We watched him grow up only to see him become a poor man's Goku when really he should have stepped out of his father's shadow. I'm convinced that the only people who are satisfied with Gohan's conclusion are the people who never liked him to begin with.

Everything post Z including GT & the new films are just salt in the wound for the character.

[dbzfan7]

All the things you listed are pretty superficial though, at least to the audience. Toriyama hardly developed the relationship with VIdel, she just kind of landed in his lap. All the important moments between them happened off screen so it's hard to truly care about that or see it as a triumph for Gohan when (to us) he never worked for it (Toriyama couldn't even let him kill Spopovich for crying out loud and that guy nearly killed her!).
Maybe it would be a more satisfying conclusion if Gohan had been infatuated with Videl from the beginning and had been the one chasing her instead of actively avoiding her in the beginning. If they had more screen time to connect it would be meaningful but the way Toriyama did it just fails miserably on all levels.

It's the same thing with Pan and his work that he apparently "always wanted". We barely saw him interact with Pan or even hint at wanting to be a father so giving him a kid means very little to me. When he was a child he didn't exactly love being forced to work and study so why should I suddenly like that he's a bookworm? I remember reading some Dragonball online lore about Gohan writing books about Ki control, that sounded pretty interesting but none of that is in the main story so, again, I don't care.

Gohan not being the hero isn't even that big of a deal (though it does kind of defeat the purpose of the Cell arc ending) the problem is he literally did nothing but fail throughout the Buu arc. Toriyama couldn't even give him one victory or moment of retribution throughout the whole thing. It was a total waste of a character that we have been invested in since the Saiyan arc. We watched him grow up only to see him become a poor man's Goku when really he should have stepped out of his father's shadow. I'm convinced that the only people who are satisfied with Gohan's conclusion are the people who never liked him to begin with.

Everything post Z including GT & the new films are just salt in the wound for the character.

Bravo sir. This is beautiful. I feel no matter what angle I look at, there is no care for Gohan. As a scholar, as a fighter, as a father, as a boyfriend, as a superhero, as a husband, etc. There is no care to really do anything with him in really any angle. He might be something, but we won't get any further than that. Maybe Toriyama might one say say he becomes a scientist or peace keeper, but if that were the case it's doubtful that'd be developed in anyway. Just a factoid.