Toriyama's changed thoughts on the anime.

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OWmyDragonBallz
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Toriyama's changed thoughts on the anime.

Post by OWmyDragonBallz » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:22 pm

So first, Toriyama was pleased with how the anime turned out during it's original run. Now he is saying :
There’s how, basically, Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn’t fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys. So once Dragon Ball got animated, at any rate, I’ve always been dissatisfied with the “righteous hero”-type portrayal they gave him. I guess I couldn’t quite get them to grasp the elements of “poison” that slip in and out of sight among the shadows.

Why is it that he now thinks this? I thought the English dub changed his character. The Japanese original kept his character as an obsessive fighter, but he somehow thinks not.

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Re: Toriyama's changed thoughts on the anime.

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:28 pm

The anime mostly kept it intact because a lot of it is just adapting the source material. He can be a bit off character in the "too heroic" direction in the series' original filler as well as the films though (most specifically during Z in things written by Takao Koyama). That's why there was a lot of discussion over Battle of Gods about how the film really have him feel like "Toriyama's Goku".

Do notice though, that this wasn't an recent thought. That interview was from 1996.
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Re: Toriyama's changed thoughts on the anime.

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:08 pm

For what it's worth, we also don't know if Toriyama's specifically referring to "the movies" or "the TV series" or "both the TV series and the movies" in that statement.

The rank of Goku changes truly does go: manga -> TV series -> movies... so it's possible he's referring to any step along that spectrum.
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Re: Toriyama's changed thoughts on the anime.

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Tue Mar 31, 2015 11:13 pm

I definitely think it's aimed more toward the movies.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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Re: Toriyama's changed thoughts on the anime.

Post by DragonBalllKaiHD » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:32 am

I thought the anime staff did darn well with adapting the source material when it comes to Son Gokû. He wasn't too far off with Toriyama's work. And Toriyama has been pretty consistent with Goku's character. Gokû didn't come to save the Planet Namek, but came to fight against Freeza because he's one strong little dude. He's training all the time because he wants to become stronger and stronger, and when the strong enemy appears, he doesn't care about the advice of wise ones, and rushes to the scene and checks out his power. But he also doesn't let baddies harm the people and his friends. Gokû never changes even in Battle of Gods. It's the films and GT that put him in the spotlight.
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Re: Toriyama's changed thoughts on the anime.

Post by Chuquita » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:38 am

I third the "he's probably aiming this at the movies". Koyama's Gokû is very distinctively different from Toriyama's.
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Re: Toriyama's changed thoughts on the anime.

Post by Hellspawn28 » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:49 am

Where can I find this info on Toriyama saying this?
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Re: Toriyama's changed thoughts on the anime.

Post by Dayspring » Wed Apr 01, 2015 1:27 am

VegettoEX wrote:For what it's worth, we also don't know if Toriyama's specifically referring to "the movies" or "the TV series" or "both the TV series and the movies" in that statement.

The rank of Goku changes truly does go: manga -> TV series -> movies... so it's possible he's referring to any step along that spectrum.
That's a good point. The movies and filler eps kept portraying him as a borderline superhero instead of the optimistic jock we're introduced to in the manga.
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Re: Toriyama's changed thoughts on the anime.

Post by shinmaru » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:22 am

I don't see Goku as a hero type in Z maybe he talking about what Toei did with GT Goku. Just wondering, how did it go with Chris Sabat and the Audio you gave him OWmyDragonBallz/AnimeMaakuo? :wink:

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Re: Toriyama's changed thoughts on the anime.

Post by Mystic Tien » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:37 am

DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:But he also doesn't let baddies harm the people and his friends. Gokû never changes even in Battle of Gods. It's the films and GT that put him in the spotlight.
Piccolo wrote:Hey! I thought you weren't here when Vegeta went off like that. You arrived long before that, using your Instantaneous Movement ,to see how things played out, didn't you?"
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Oolong wrote:Is that true, you jerk?! While everyone else was getting beat up?!
Goku wrote:Sorry! Sorry! I was watching the enemy's movement ,trying to put together a strategy, but well, I didn't come up with anything.
Goku wrote: I wanted to get you to say "I give up." I give up. I give up! Beers-sama, you sure are strong. There ain't no way I could stand up to you. You're the strongest in the universe, all right.
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Re: Toriyama's changed thoughts on the anime.

Post by JamesOwnz » Wed Apr 01, 2015 10:51 am

Do you think Toriyama has seen the "Ally to good!" part?

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Re: Toriyama's changed thoughts on the anime.

Post by GokuRules987 » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:02 am

I prefer Goku to have more of a heroic side than somebody that just loves mindless fighting. Sorta like superman who goes around and helps everyday people instead of training.
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Re: Toriyama's changed thoughts on the anime.

Post by The Monkey King » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:16 am

DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:Gokû didn't come to save the Planet Namek, but came to fight against Freeza because he's one strong little dude.
But Goku did give his most heroic speech on Namek where he claimed he was fighting for its people and the planet's future.
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Re: Toriyama's changed thoughts on the anime.

Post by Doctor. » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:21 am

The Monkey King wrote:
DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:Gokû didn't come to save the Planet Namek, but came to fight against Freeza because he's one strong little dude.
But Goku did give his most heroic speech on Namek where he claimed he was fighting for its people and the planet's future.
He just said he was taking revenge on Freeza for everything he did to the Saiyans and Nameks. He fights for himself first, saving the planet comes as a consequence of that usually.

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Re: Toriyama's changed thoughts on the anime.

Post by djkalteraphine » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:35 am

Yeah, I'm not seeing this 'distinction' Toriyama or most the people in this thread are referring to. Unless it's something utterly lost in translation in the Viz version of the manga, I don't really understand what the anime or movies do that isn't an established character trait he's already shown in the source material. Obviously other writers are going to do something different than Toriyama, since they aren't him. And I don't understand this weird obsession most people on this site have with considering Goku a, what, anti-hero? I don't get it. Like, I get the dub took him in a really boring direction, but that doesn't mean being "the hero guy" is a bad thing.

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Re: Toriyama's changed thoughts on the anime.

Post by The Monkey King » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:38 am

Doctor. wrote:
The Monkey King wrote:
DragonBalllKaiHD wrote:Gokû didn't come to save the Planet Namek, but came to fight against Freeza because he's one strong little dude.
But Goku did give his most heroic speech on Namek where he claimed he was fighting for its people and the planet's future.
He just said he was taking revenge on Freeza for everything he did to the Saiyans and Nameks. He fights for himself first, saving the planet comes as a consequence of that usually.
Yeah I was referring to the scene where Goku uses kaio-ken X20, I just read the manga version and he makes no such heroic speech, he only does so in the anime. My bad.
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Re: Toriyama's changed thoughts on the anime.

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:43 am

GokuRules987 wrote:I prefer Goku to have more of a heroic side than somebody that just loves mindless fighting. Sorta like superman who goes around and helps everyday people instead of training.
What? The Saiyan's are not like Kryptonians were they had a morality compass. They were just a race of blood thristy, battle loving, space pirates. Goku love of his family and friends and want to protect the Earth will always overlap with his love for challenges and fighting, and that's one of the unique feature of Dragon Ball and always make the interactions between the cast a lot more colourful and full of depth. And besides, why should Goku be like Superman? Part of the reason why fans love Goku and why he stands out so much more is because of his personality being so much more alien and wildcard-ish and so far apart from what Superman stands for.

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Re: Toriyama's changed thoughts on the anime.

Post by GoldLiger » Wed Apr 01, 2015 11:49 am

Lord Beerus wrote:
GokuRules987 wrote:I prefer Goku to have more of a heroic side than somebody that just loves mindless fighting. Sorta like superman who goes around and helps everyday people instead of training.
What? The Saiyan's are not like Kryptonians were they had a morality compass. They were just a race of blood thristy, battle loving, space pirates. Goku love of his family and friends and want to protect the Earth will always overlap with his love for challenges and fighting, and that's one of the unique feature of Dragon Ball and always make the interactions between the cast a lot more colourful and full of depth. And besides, why should Goku be like Superman? Part of the reason why fans love Goku and why he stands out so much more is because of his personality being so much more alien and wildcard-ish and so far apart from what Superman stands for.
Toriyama made Goku's origins match Superman's origin by 95% in DB- chapter.
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Re: Toriyama's changed thoughts on the anime.

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Apr 01, 2015 12:02 pm

GoldLiger wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
GokuRules987 wrote:I prefer Goku to have more of a heroic side than somebody that just loves mindless fighting. Sorta like superman who goes around and helps everyday people instead of training.
What? The Saiyan's are not like Kryptonians were they had a morality compass. They were just a race of blood thristy, battle loving, space pirates. Goku love of his family and friends and want to protect the Earth will always overlap with his love for challenges and fighting, and that's one of the unique feature of Dragon Ball and always make the interactions between the cast a lot more colourful and full of depth. And besides, why should Goku be like Superman? Part of the reason why fans love Goku and why he stands out so much more is because of his personality being so much more alien and wildcard-ish and so far apart from what Superman stands for.
Toriyama made Goku's origins match Superman's origin by 95% in DB- chapter.
Goku's origins were already 95% similar to Superman before Dragon Ball Minus even existed. And Superman origins are a ripoff of Moses.

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