#NewRules According to Modern Toriyama

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NeoKING
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#NewRules According to Modern Toriyama

Post by NeoKING » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:47 pm

I dunno about anyone else, but I think New Akira's awesome. He doesn't have to deal with deadlines or anything like that, so he's creativity is being fleshed out more than ever before. Sure, New Akira throws away his old ideas by having things like SSJ Vegeta "surpassing Goku" and SSJ God being the new thing, but his characters like Beerus and Whis are really well-developed. He also does a great job of expanding the DB universe which we've come to known for 10+ years now.

What do you guys think about New Akira?

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Re: #NewRules According to New Akira

Post by GeeRod » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:51 pm

I'm glad Toriyama is the one coming up with new stories and not TOEI because we all know what happen...
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Re: #NewRules According to New Akira

Post by Mystic Tien » Sun Apr 05, 2015 1:59 pm

NeoKING wrote:I dunno about anyone else, but I think New Akira's awesome. He doesn't have to deal with deadlines or anything like that, so he's creativity is being fleshed out more than ever before. Sure, New Akira throws away his old ideas by having things like SSJ Vegeta "surpassing Goku" and SSJ God being the new thing, but his characters like Beerus and Whis are really well-developed. He also does a great job of expanding the DB universe which we've come to known for 10+ years now.

What do you guys think about New Akira?
We basically know nothing about Whis, how is he well-developed? With Beerus I agree.

He didn't expand the universe in FnF at all. We know nothing about Frieza yet, we know nothing about Whis yet, and we know nothing about what the heck is Blue SSJ God, and while there are theories as for why it looks like it does now, nothing specific was explained in a movie besides "SSJ with SSJ God energy" or something in that line.
GeeRod wrote:I'm glad Toriyama is the one coming up with new stories and not TOEI because we all know what happen...
Dragon Ball Z. Wrath of The Dragon.
Marco Polo wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:Cool to see Gohan have a kill for once. He hasn't killed someone since Cell (or Broli if you want to count in General).
He almost got Videl killed in Battle of Gods tho.

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Re: #NewRules According to New Akira

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:00 pm

New Akira needs to stop writing the new movies with a two year release schedule as if it's a weekly manga, I mean Goku & Vegeta's glorified training segment getting a whole movie focused on it on top of the most half-assed villain resurrection I've seen in a while is a hhhhuuugggggeeeeee piss take. Either put out smaller length films more frequently or get your head out of your ass and make the current format movies be worth a damn (no, training and transformation getting ISN'T DEVELOPMENT! Its the standard for every relevant DB arc).

I don't care if this pisses people off because it's "NOT LIEK DUR CLASSICCZZ MAN GUH!" adapt to the format you're making material in or just do another manga.
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Re: #NewRules According to New Akira

Post by GeeRod » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:09 pm

Mystic Tien wrote: We basically know nothing about Whis, how is he well-developed? With Beerus I agree.

He didn't expand the universe in FnF at all. We know nothing about Freeza yet, we know nothing about Whis yet, and we know nothing about what the heck is Blue SSJ God, and while there are theories as for why it looks like it does now, nothing specific was explained in a movie besides "SSJ with SSJ God energy" or something in that line.
GeeRod wrote:I'm glad Toriyama is the one coming up with new stories and not TOEI because we all know what happen...
Mystic Tien wrote:Dragon Ball Z. Wrath of The Dragon.
Dragon Ball GT. Dragon Ball Z: Bio Broly. Dragon Ball Z: Broly Second Coming. Bardock OVA. Dragon Ball Z: Return of Cooler. You want more?
English is not my main language. Sorry if I make a mistake.

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Re: #NewRules According to New Akira

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:15 pm

I'm happy that Toriyama is back to the series since fans wanted him to return for years. I take 2008 Jump Special, BOG and ROF over most of the garbage that Toei did on their own without Toriyama's help. Toei can't get Dragon Ball right 90% of the time, it's rare when they do in my opinion.
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Re: #NewRules According to New Akira

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:29 pm

GeeRod wrote:
Mystic Tenshinhan wrote: We basically know nothing about Whis, how is he well-developed? With Beerus I agree.

He didn't expand the universe in FnF at all. We know nothing about Freeza yet, we know nothing about Whis yet, and we know nothing about what the heck is Blue SSJ God, and while there are theories as for why it looks like it does now, nothing specific was explained in a movie besides "SSJ with SSJ God energy" or something in that line.
GeeRod wrote:I'm glad Toriyama is the one coming up with new stories and not TOEI because we all know what happen...
Mystic Tenshinhan wrote:Dragon Ball Z. Wrath of The Dragon.
Dragon Ball GT. Dragon Ball Z: Bio Broly. Dragon Ball Z: Broly Second Coming. Bardock OVA. Dragon Ball Z: Return of Cooler. You want more?
The Buu Saga is worse than all of these combined. While GT and the movies are completely harmless in the grand scheme of things (especially since there's more good Toei films than bad ones). The Buu Saga, however, pretty much exemplifies everything that went wrong with DB and then some. Horribly uninteresting new villains, new characters being either boring as f*ck like the new Kais or being annoying to the point of wanting to bash your face in like Goten & Trunks AKA the Spawnlings. The whole arc blows its load when Vegeta blows himself up and never, not once, even reaches a tenth of that moments excitement afterward with constant one-upping happening just to drag the bloody thing out to the point where Toriyama himself got sick of it and drawing any action manga EVER again. Don't even get me started on DB-.

Really if anyone had any common sense they'd either force Toriyama to adapt to modern storytelling or just get someone new to do it. American Comics have done just fine with their long running heroes getting fresh blood into the creative process and since Toriyama is gonna inevitably die or permanently retire one day, better to just get it done sooner rather than later.
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Re: #NewRules According to New Akira

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:45 pm

Personally, I love the fact that Toriyama is just contributing to franchise again. Some of it has been great (Jaco, BOG, Beerus, Whis, SSJ God), decent (Resurrection F, Golden Freeza) and pretty forgettable (Dragon Ball Minus, Gine). But just the fact that the creator of Dragon Ball is taking the helm of the franchise, after so many years absent from Dragon Ball... it's pretty surreal. Especially consider he turned down a truck load of money from Bandai to create a new series a few years back.

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Re: #NewRules According to New Akira

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:52 pm

I think we should stop addressing the man as if we were on a first name basis with him.
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Re: #NewRules According to New Akira

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Apr 05, 2015 2:56 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:I think we should stop addressing the man as if we were on a first name basis with him.
This. We are not close friends with Toriyama and shouldn't acting as if we are.

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Re: #NewRules According to New Akira

Post by Mystic Tien » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:04 pm

GeeRod wrote:
Mystic Tenshinhan wrote: We basically know nothing about Whis, how is he well-developed? With Beerus I agree.

He didn't expand the universe in FnF at all. We know nothing about Freeza yet, we know nothing about Whis yet, and we know nothing about what the heck is Blue SSJ God, and while there are theories as for why it looks like it does now, nothing specific was explained in a movie besides "SSJ with SSJ God energy" or something in that line.
GeeRod wrote:I'm glad Toriyama is the one coming up with new stories and not TOEI because we all know what happen...
Mystic Tenshinhan wrote:Dragon Ball Z. Wrath of The Dragon.
Dragon Ball GT. Dragon Ball Z: Bio Broly. Dragon Ball Z: Broly Second Coming. Bardock OVA. Dragon Ball Z: Return of Cooler. You want more?
I liked all of them, so I don't mind.

On another hand... Dragon Ball Minus...
Marco Polo wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:Cool to see Gohan have a kill for once. He hasn't killed someone since Cell (or Broli if you want to count in General).
He almost got Videl killed in Battle of Gods tho.

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Re: #NewRules According to New Akira

Post by Doctor. » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:12 pm

Hit or miss for me. Battle of Gods was great, Jaco was good. Minus and RF are another story, though. He isn't any more inconsistent now than he was back when Dragon Ball was in serialization.

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Re: #NewRules According to New Akira

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:14 pm

Mystic Tien wrote:
GeeRod wrote:
Mystic Tenshinhan wrote: We basically know nothing about Whis, how is he well-developed? With Beerus I agree.

He didn't expand the universe in FnF at all. We know nothing about Freeza yet, we know nothing about Whis yet, and we know nothing about what the heck is Blue SSJ God, and while there are theories as for why it looks like it does now, nothing specific was explained in a movie besides "SSJ with SSJ God energy" or something in that line.
GeeRod wrote:I'm glad Toriyama is the one coming up with new stories and not TOEI because we all know what happen...
Mystic Tenshinhan wrote:Dragon Ball Z. Wrath of The Dragon.
Dragon Ball GT. Dragon Ball Z: Bio Broly. Dragon Ball Z: Broly Second Coming. Bardock OVA. Dragon Ball Z: Return of Cooler. You want more?
I liked all of them, so I don't mind.

On another hand... Dragon Ball Minus...
Comparing a one shot fifteen page chapter to a 50+ episode series and 30-50 minute animated features is a bit unfair in my opinion. But Dragon Ball minus was pretty underwhelming and could have been much more than it was.

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Re: #NewRules According to New Akira

Post by ekrolo2 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:20 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:Comparing a one shot fifteen page chapter to a 50+ episode series and 30-50 minute animated features is a bit unfair in my opinion. But Dragon Ball minus was pretty underwhelming and could have been much more than it was.
See I don't get this, if he really wanted more time to tell his story then couldn't he have gotten more space to tell it? As far as I know no one forced him to make it just over a dozen pages long, it seemed to be of his own volition.
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Re: #NewRules According to New Akira

Post by Mystic Tien » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:22 pm

Lord Beerus wrote: Comparing a one shot twenty page chapter to a 50+ episode series, and 30-50 minute animated features is a bit unfair in my opinion. But Dragon Ball minus was pretty underwhelming and could have been much more than it was.
I didn't compare it. It is just that DBM made a mess out of the timeline/story, and it is very hard to deduce now what exactly happened and how. GT and any of the movies never actually did (or even tried) to do anything of this sort. I don't even hate/dislike DBM. It is just that I don't see a point in it. Like for what reason was it created? It doesn't add anything new to storyline, all it does - introduces a mother of Goku... Who basically says a few words, and that's all. On the other hand it completely alters everything what we learned from DBZ/Bardock: Father of Goku for no specific reason. So, what I ask is why it was even created? Toriyama could just draw a picture of Gine, like he did with SSJ4 design for example (after witnessing Nakatsuru Katsuyoshi's design of it, used in GT) or like he came up with Broly design... Heck, he could put her in a flashback in FnF! It would make sense for her to be there, while the whole movie is (supposed to be) dedicated to Frieza. Instead we got a little chapter, which isn't consistent with any form of media, even with manga, and doesn't actually bring anything new.
ekrolo2 wrote:
See I don't get this, if he really wanted more time to tell his story then couldn't he have gotten more space to tell it? As far as I know no one forced him to make it just over a dozen pages long, it seemed to be of his own volition.
Exactly! Moreover what stopped him from putting a flashback with Gine in FnF? It would make sense for her to be here.
Marco Polo wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:Cool to see Gohan have a kill for once. He hasn't killed someone since Cell (or Broli if you want to count in General).
He almost got Videl killed in Battle of Gods tho.

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Re: #NewRules According to New Akira

Post by TheDevilsCorpse » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:24 pm

If he REALLY wanted to make it longer, they probably would have let him. Realistically though, Shueisha likely had an ideal number of pages for the volume so that they would only have to spend so much on the printing and what they would have to charge for the releases, and he was asked to fit the extra chapter within that space.
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Re: #NewRules According to New Akira

Post by Faustus » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:27 pm

Mystic Tien wrote:On another hand... Dragon Ball Minus...
People tend to forget that Minus chapter came at the tail-end of the 10-chapter-long Jaco, which was overall quite well-received. Why are people treating a single chapter as though it were a stand-alone product, of equal weight with everything else?

Since I haven't seen and therefore can't yet pronounce a verdict on F, I'd say my feeling is that Toriyama has done overwhelmingly more good than bad. Even if F turns out to be mediocre, taking Battle of Gods and Jaco in consideration, Toriyama can still boast a 50+% success rate with new material.
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Re: #NewRules According to New Akira

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:29 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:If he REALLY wanted to make it longer, they probably would have let him. Realistically though, Shueisha likely had an ideal number of pages for the volume so that they would only have to spend so much on the printing and what they would have to charge for the releases, and he was asked to fit the extra chapter within that space.
Do you think if Shueisha were more lenient, they would have given Toriyama more page to work with? Because I think a good story could have been told if Dragon Ball Minus got at least 25 pages.

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Re: #NewRules According to New Akira

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:30 pm

NeoKING wrote:I dunno about anyone else, but I think New Akira's awesome. He doesn't have to deal with deadlines or anything like that, so he's creativity is being fleshed out more than ever before. Sure, New Akira throws away his old ideas by having things like SSJ Vegeta "surpassing Goku" and SSJ God being the new thing, but his characters like Beerus and Whis are really well-developed. He also does a great job of expanding the DB universe which we've come to known for 10+ years now.

What do you guys think about New Akira?
I think I miss the old Toriyama.

Thus far, we have:
- Tarble, Vegeta's wimpy brother who's married to a chibi alien thing (I know Toriyama did not make him, but he was still referenced in BoG).
- Rage Boosts are now a thing, so Gohan's hidden power was never exclusive.
- SSJs becoming stronger than SSJ3s by getting angry.
- No more SSJ2s and SSJ3s.
- Gohan lost his mystic state, and is now a PoS character. This is one of the reasons people hated GT too, so... go figure.
- Lame new transformations. One achieved through friendship that makes the user look weaker, and another that replaces an iconic transformation and also makes it look weaker and uglier.
- Power inconsistencies, such as Piccolo being on par with a mook, Master Roshi holding his own against Frieza's men, and Gohan being one-shotted by first form Frieza.
- Villains with pitiful BP being able to catch up to gods in 4 months of off-screen training.
- A complete lack of any sense of threat due to two sets of dragon balls and a character who's not only the strongest in the universe, but can also reverse time.
- Terrible backstories that contradict decent ones that had already been established.
- One movie that is not really any better than a lot of what Toei gave us in the past, and another that seems to follow the exact same formula as those Toei movies people seem to hate on.
- Art nowhere near as good as the stuff he used to make when he was active.

Only good things that have come out of "New Akira" have been Jaco (sans Minus) and Beerus. "New Akira" is honestly not any better or worse than Toei, imo, but I miss Serious Ball Z (e.g. Bardock special, History of Trunks, Wrath of the Dragon, Cell Saga, etc) and I doubt we're ever getting that again with modern day Toriyama.
Last edited by fadeddreams5 on Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: #NewRules According to New Akira

Post by Baggie_Saiyan » Sun Apr 05, 2015 3:36 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
TheDevilsCorpse wrote:If he REALLY wanted to make it longer, they probably would have let him. Realistically though, Shueisha likely had an ideal number of pages for the volume so that they would only have to spend so much on the printing and what they would have to charge for the releases, and he was asked to fit the extra chapter within that space.
Do you think if Shueisha were more lenient, they would have given Toriyama more page to work with? Because I think a good story could have been told if Dragon Ball Minus got at least 25 pages.
Agree'd. DB- was too short to be anything, I think Toriyama should have just made a gag scene with Beerus and Whis.

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