#NewRules According to Modern Toriyama

[Kendamu]

New Akira needs to stop writing the new movies with a two year release schedule as if it's a weekly manga, I mean Goku & Vegeta's glorified training segment getting a whole movie focused on it on top of the most half-assed villain resurrection I've seen in a while is a hhhhuuugggggeeeeee piss take. Either put out smaller length films more frequently or get your head out of your ass and make the current format movies be worth a damn (no, training and transformation getting ISN'T DEVELOPMENT! Its the standard for every relevant DB arc).

I don't care if this pisses people off because it's "NOT LIEK DUR CLASSICCZZ MAN GUH!" adapt to the format you're making material in or just do another manga.

You're absolutely right. What he's writing is very much like what fans have come to expect from Dragonball. If you want something that's, instead, essentially not Dragonball then maybe you need to get that from somewhere else. I'm not saying, "Don't watch it," or whatever, but consider getting something that's not Dragonball from some other story in addition to enjoying Dragonball.

[Rocketman]

No, you see, the raw details are literally the only things that matter. Execution and presentation are absolute non-factors.

A bad idea executed well is still bad.

[dbzfan7]

New Akira needs to stop writing the new movies with a two year release schedule as if it's a weekly manga, I mean Goku & Vegeta's glorified training segment getting a whole movie focused on it on top of the most half-assed villain resurrection I've seen in a while is a hhhhuuugggggeeeeee piss take. Either put out smaller length films more frequently or get your head out of your ass and make the current format movies be worth a damn (no, training and transformation getting ISN'T DEVELOPMENT! Its the standard for every relevant DB arc).

I don't care if this pisses people off because it's "NOT LIEK DUR CLASSICCZZ MAN GUH!" adapt to the format you're making material in or just do another manga.

You're absolutely right. What he's writing is very much like what fans have come to expect from Dragonball. If you want something that's, instead, essentially not Dragonball then maybe you need to get that from somewhere else. I'm not saying, "Don't watch it," or whatever, but consider getting something that's not Dragonball from some other story in addition to enjoying Dragonball.

Mr. Toriyama is doing a pretty good job I'd say. Anything I want is honestly not that important to the grand scheme of things. Nothing I've ever suggested is really that important or direly needed. Still doesn't change for me that this current stuff feels a little like GT in execution

[Zephyr]

No, you see, the raw details are literally the only things that matter. Execution and presentation are absolute non-factors.

A bad idea executed well is still bad.

That doesn't change the fact that the details aren't everything.

[Faustus]

A bad idea executed well is still bad.

A film's "ideas" aren't meant to be evaluated in abstraction from their presentation.

[Kendamu]

A bad idea executed well is still bad.

A film's "ideas" aren't meant to be evaluated in abstraction from their presentation.

That won't stop people from doing so, though. What makes all the difference is what angle a person is coming from and what they intend to gain from such evaluation. I've evaluated my experience with seeing Resurrection F in the theater from the angles of "martial arts choreography," "fun factor," "humor," and "feels like Dragonball." Those were the most important things to me going in with "the feeling" and "fun" being the most important to me as I enjoyed it in the moment. With those things in mind, the movie was wonderful.

It's not the only way to evaluate a film, though. I feel like maybe my style of evaluation is not what other people active in these discussions are looking for. It is what it is. If you enjoy the act of not enjoying it, then enjoy.

[Faustus]

Obviously I agree that our standards for what ultimately makes for a good Dragon Ball film are hugely variable across the board. But what I'm more getting at is that a film is conceived with a certain intention; you don't get anything out of extracting and abstracting its content out of the audiovisual context in which it was meant to be appreciated and subjecting it to the strictest scrutiny as such, regardless of its execution. That's simply not how these details were intended to be taken. (Which is not, of course, to say that you can't articulate preliminary doubts and concerns over what little information you do have, but keep in mind that you haven't actually experienced any of it the way it was meant to be experienced.)

[Yournickk]

No. It 'smore like Shueisha can order Toriyama to do whatever they please whenever Toriyama is publishing his work in a property that Shueisha owns. Toriyama may be a legend but that won't stop him being told what to do, especially by a company as powerful as Shueisha.

Nothing stops AT from telling them "I refuse to work under these guidelines". Nothing stops him from creating his own website and publishing his new DB chapter on his own site. Many fan-manga artists have done it, why can't AT? It isn't the early 1990's anymore. If Shueisha won't let him do what he wants, he doesn't need to deal with them.
Is it about money? I'm pretty sure that AT didn't expect to make much, if any, money from DB Minus. It's something that he could have done for his loyal fans free of charge. It's just one chapter, not a new manga series.

[Dyno]

It shouldn't be just one chapter, that's the problem.

[Lord Beerus]

Nothing stops AT from telling them "I refuse to work under these guidelines". Nothing stops him from creating his own website and publishing his new DB chapter on his own site. Many fan-manga artists have done it, why can't AT? It isn't the early 1990's anymore. If Shueisha won't let him do what he wants, he doesn't need to deal with them.

That's certainly a great way to burn bridges with a very established publisher that was responsible for Dragon Balls initial success. Dragon Ball is not some run of the mil fan-manga that can afford to lose the backing of a publisher like Shueisha.

Is it about money? I'm pretty sure that AT didn't expect to make much, if any, money from DB Minus. It's something that he could have done for his loyal fans free of charge. It's just one chapter, not a new manga series.

Why is everybody treating Dragon Ball Minus as a stand alone product? It's just one bloody 15 page chapter, that was thrown in as a bonus chapter of the Jaco The Galactic Patrolman volume. That's it.

[Yournickk]

Nothing stops AT from telling them "I refuse to work under these guidelines". Nothing stops him from creating his own website and publishing his new DB chapter on his own site. Many fan-manga artists have done it, why can't AT? It isn't the early 1990's anymore. If Shueisha won't let him do what he wants, he doesn't need to deal with them.

That's certainly a great way to burn bridges with a very established publisher that was responsible for Dragon Balls initial success. Dragon Ball is not some run of the mil fan-manga that can afford to lose the backing of a publisher like Shueisha.

The DB manga ended in 1995, it's over. Toriyama is just doing it for the fans at this point. And let's face it, Toriyama has seniority at this point. Nobody has the right to tell him how to write/draw his story. If he wanted to make DB Minus a 30+ page chapter, he could have.

[fexus]

No, you see, the raw details are literally the only things that matter. Execution and presentation are absolute non-factors.

A bad idea executed well is still bad.

A bad idea executed well could be decent. A good idea executed bad would be bad.

[Lord Beerus]

Nothing stops AT from telling them "I refuse to work under these guidelines". Nothing stops him from creating his own website and publishing his new DB chapter on his own site. Many fan-manga artists have done it, why can't AT? It isn't the early 1990's anymore. If Shueisha won't let him do what he wants, he doesn't need to deal with them.

That's certainly a great way to burn bridges with a very established publisher that was responsible for Dragon Balls initial success. Dragon Ball is not some run of the mil fan-manga that can afford to lose the backing of a publisher like Shueisha.

The DB manga ended in 1995, it's over. Toriyama is just doing it for the fans at this point. And let's face it, Toriyama has seniority at this point. Nobody has the right to tell him how to write/draw his story. If he wanted to make DB Minus a 30+ page chapter, he could have.

He could have, but wasn't give the authority to do so. End of story. If Shueisha tells Toriyama he has "X" amount of pages to use to produce one chapter, Toriyama just works with it. That's always been the case with every work he's done post Dragon Ball.

[Zenkai]

I don't find anything about these fights exciting at all.

You've seen the new movie fights? Cool, where at? I guess you were at either the Japanese screening or the Hollywood premiere.

No, you see, the raw details are literally the only things that matter. Execution and presentation are absolute non-factors.

"These fights are terrible!"

*has never seen them*

Seems legit......

[VegettoEX]

Nothing stops him from creating his own website and publishing his new DB chapter on his own site.

Akira Toriyama does not own Dragon Ball. Shueisha does.

He can't just do whatever he wants. Fans can do whatever they want because they don't actually have anything to do with the corporate structure and marketing machine and have absolutely zero influence or meaning to the larger world. They are insignificant. They are inconsequential. They are nothing.

The instant Toriyama creates something on his own, publishes it on his own without any involvement from Shueisha, is the very instant that the Japanese manga industry suddenly collapses, lawsuits are filed, and pigs fly.

[Mewzard]

Nothing stops him from creating his own website and publishing his new DB chapter on his own site.

Akira Toriyama does not own Dragon Ball. Shueisha does.

He can't just do whatever he wants. Fans can do whatever they want because they don't actually have anything to do with the corporate structure and marketing machine and have absolutely zero influence or meaning to the larger world. They are insignificant. They are inconsequential. They are nothing.

The instant Toriyama creates something on his own, publishes it on his own without any involvement from Shueisha, is the very instant that the Japanese manga industry suddenly collapses, lawsuits are filed, and pigs fly.

Toriyama doesn't own Dragon Ball? Why doesn't he? Both Tesuo Hara/Buronson and Masami Kurumada took their big 80s Jump manga from around DB's time (Fist of the North Star and Saint Seiya) away from Shueisha and continued them with other companies not affiliated with Shueisha. I doubt Shueisha would let them do that if they owned those series. Did they just buy the rights?

Hmm...now I'm really confused.

[VegettoEX]

I don't know the details behind those two series, so I can't make any educated comparisons.

That being said, yes, of course there's always the chance for someone to buy out a license. That... likely wouldn't be the case with Dragon Ball. Both Fist of the North Star and Saint Seiya do well, and the latter does pretty well internationally (at least specifically in South America), but for an absolute gigantic institution like Dragon Ball, these companies (namely Shueisha) aren't letting anyone else get their grubby mitts on it.

(And even then, doesn't Shueisha still own those series to some degree? At least the portions that were originally published with them? I mean, they're both represented in things like Jump Ultimate Stars and J-Stars Victory Vs., which are Shueisha-only.)

[Mewzard]

I suppose they could have agreements to reprint the material released under their names and video game rights could probably be hammered out separately. I just wonder if Shueisha does own these properties...why not publish the books themselves?I mean, JJBA went Seinen like FotNS did with Fist of the Blue Sky, but JJBA just went to Ultra Jump. Saint Seiya doesn't even have that issue.

Outside of Saint Seiya being forced to end early (a good reason to perhaps want to try a new company), most of what I've heard of is for FotNS, where apparently an old WSJ editor took several creators with him to form a new company. Weekly Comics Bunch (the magazine) seemed to be half Fist of the North Star Gaidens and Fist of the Blue Sky itself (plus a new Violence Jack by Go Nagai, if you didn't have enough mutilated people as is).

Pretty much everything Kurumada did after the early 90s was done outside of Shonen Jump, except for the sequel to his first big hit manga Ring ni Kakero, which got a run in Super Jump I think it was.

I suppose it could be a simple case of creative disagreement, and Shueisha working something out contractually to show some respect for the years of good sales and to avoid getting some bad press by upset creators.

[fadeddreams5]

Toriyama should make an alias online and create Dragon Ball "doujinshi." <3

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Not that he even wants to, but fans would call him out on it immediately. The combination of his art style, humor, etc are all pretty difficult to mimic all at once.