Overused characters?

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Zephyr
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Overused characters?

Post by Zephyr » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:35 am

Are there any characters that you think are just getting unnecessarily shoehorned into too many things lately? This extends beyond simply the new movies. I'm talking video games, merchandise, etc.

If you asked me a few years ago, I'd have said Broly. Lately though, Bardock seems to be gunning for his position. Sequel to his anime special where he goes Super Saiyan, special manga chapter which completely disregards his prior backstory for a new one, showing up in Xenoverse, Online, and Heroes, etc.

Anyway, what characters do you think are getting way more unnecessary spotlight than they deserve?

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Re: Overused characters?

Post by sintzu » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:45 am

Goku in the original 13 movies&Gt

Ssj3 in Db Heroes.

Bardock&Broly in the console games.

Thankfully Toriyama's story doesn't overuse anyone so whenever someone's on screen I don't feel like they shouldn't be.
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Re: Overused characters?

Post by Cipher » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:48 am

Bardock is the absolute worst in this category.

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Re: Overused characters?

Post by Gonstead » Sun Apr 26, 2015 3:49 am

Cipher wrote:Bardock is the absolute worst in this category.
It does seem to be the case as of late.
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Re: Overused characters?

Post by Dyno » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:06 am

Hoped to find a valid argument, but, as always... :|

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Re: Overused characters?

Post by Gonstead » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:13 am

Dyno wrote:Hoped to find a valid argument, but, as always... :|
Seems pretty valid to me.

There really is nothing special about Bardock at all. Take him out of DB lore and you would hardly lose anything, if at all of importance. At least with a character like Broly, while overstayed with 3 movies, kept his content to himself and generally has no bearing on the actual story itself.
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Re: Overused characters?

Post by Eire » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:37 am

OK, my argument that Barock has it worse than Brolly- his over-exposition altered his character in worse way. From lower class lout to THE LSSJ. For me it cheapened Goku's achievement- I loved the idea that he become SSJ on his own, while now it seems that it runs in the blood.
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Re: Overused characters?

Post by Dyno » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:50 am

Gonstead wrote:
Dyno wrote:Hoped to find a valid argument, but, as always... :|
Seems pretty valid to me.

There really is nothing special about Bardock at all. Take him out of DB lore and you would hardly lose anything, if at all of importance. At least with a character like Broly, while overstayed with 3 movies, kept his content to himself and generally has no bearing on the actual story itself.
And since when that is character's fault? That is author's fault for being stupidly lazy (?) (could say other words but I probably would offend someone for calling name the author) for not working on his character development, for not giving him a proper role. I could even say that about your precious Kakarot, but he is the protagonist and so he gets all the importance... And speaking of it, it was Bardock who sent Kakarot to Earth, that is not a enough point? Of course not, pretty much expected, as I already said I couldn't find valid arguments. Bardock lived in the shadow for twenty years, he appeared in a video-game for the first time after fourteen years after his debut in the TV Special, getting a role in a video-game now went defunct and desconsidered by these new movies, getting a role in an OVA which is pretty much ignored by the author himself and getting a role in a fucking and unnecessary manga of just one chapter, he was a character of just two pannels in the manga for twenty four years (considering only the "canon")... No, he is not overused, he is "bad used". That is the right term to choose.
Eire wrote:OK, my argument that Barock has it worse than Brolly- his over-exposition altered his character in worse way. From lower class lout to THE LSSJ. For me it cheapened Goku's achievement- I loved the idea that he become SSJ on his own, while now it seems that it runs in the blood.
Only if you consider Episode of Bardock as canon and part of the main continuity/author's manga. Do you consider?

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Re: Overused characters?

Post by Doctor. » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:24 am

Bardock's story was completely ruined. The TV Special (and the manga/Minus story as well) portrayed a dark, cruel story about the universe under Freeza’s rule and the tale of a ruthless, proud and lonely Saiyan’s fight against the destruction of his home planet. It portrays Bardock as a lone warrior, just like all the rest, who alone stood up for his people, despite being the underdog, and died with honor. The fact that he's now being marketed as the Super Saiyan (not to mention that, thanks to Heroes, he's one of the strongest characters in the series now), not only completely ruins what he represents, but Goku as well. Goku’s whole theme was that he was a low class who could reach great heights with the mere wish of improving himself; the way Bardock is being marketed now implies that it was all because of his bloodline, which is something I absolutely hate in Shounen: that a protagonist only is as important as he is because of his family.

It doesn't really matter if you consider it canon to the manga, it still exists and it's still there. You can ignore it sure, but when you're replying to a thread where the main purpose is to actually acknowledge these pieces of "non-canon" stories, then you have to acknowledge them. Bardock wasn't badly utilized, low screen time doesn't mean he was badly utilized, that's why he was loved so much. If you say he is just because he died, then you don't get what his purpose was. He served it, just like Future Gohan served his purpose way back, and he's not being completely stuck on every piece of DB merchandise that comes out, nor should he. Bardock's being overused in the same vein Broly was a few years back (and still is), and it makes him almost unbearable.

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Re: Overused characters?

Post by Flame Dragon » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:45 am

Beerus.

Toriyama new answer for everything?

A wizard Beerus did it.

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Re: Overused characters?

Post by Zephyr » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:01 pm

Dyno wrote:And since when that is character's fault?
This isn't in-universe discussion. Nobody is "blaming a character" for anything.
Dyno wrote:That is author's fault for being stupidly lazy for not working on his character development, for not giving him a proper role.
This is precisely the problem. They're using a character more than he needs to be used, and they're doing it poorly most of, if not all of, the time.
Dyno wrote:I could even say that about your precious Kakarot, but he is the protagonist and so he gets all the importance... And speaking of it, it was Bardock who sent Kakarot to Earth, that is not a enough point?
Not really understanding the point you're trying to make about Kakalot here.
Dyno wrote:No, he is not overused, he is "bad used". That is the right term to choose.
They go together. If he was used well in all of these instances, that would be one thing. If he was used very well each time that he showed up, people would be more accepting of his use. His use would not be tiring and extraneous. But since it isn't being used well, it quickly overstays its welcome. They're using him too much, given the quality of his usage. Bardock's exposure in the franchise is a prime case of quantity over quality.
Dyno wrote:Only if you consider Episode of Bardock as canon and part of the main continuity/author's manga. Do you consider?
I don't think "canonicity" is really relevant to Eire's complaint. Point is, they're doing everything they can to make Bardock seem more and more "special", and that serves to undermine Goku's achievements by making them genetic more than anything else. Again, we're not talking about canon. We're not talking about in-universe. We're talking about the franchise as a whole, which doesn't have a canon.
Flame Dragon wrote:Beerus.

Toriyama new answer for everything?

A wizard Beerus did it.
Yeah I have to agree that Beerus is getting unnecessarily shoehorned into a lot of things. At least he's a likable character though. There's some whimsy to be had from his inclusion, the charm of his personality is expanded. The ends justify the means, as it were. With Bardock, not only is it unnecessary, it tampers with things that were very arguably better before being altered.

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Re: Overused characters?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:47 pm

I never seen the big issue with Bardock's character in Minus. He was shown killing a group of aliens, so he's still a cold blooded murder. A cold blooded murder can still love and care for other people. Look at Al Simmons as Spawn in the comics for example. He loved his wife and best friends but he still love his job on killing other people as a solider working for the CIA.

I do feel like Bardock and Broli have over stay their welcomes. Bardock becoming SSj over a kid that he never knew or care for was pretty bad in my opinion.
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Re: Overused characters?

Post by One_Instance » Sun Apr 26, 2015 4:56 pm

I have to agree with the majority of people here, Bardock going SSJ was pretty bad. I never put much thought into it, I knew I didn't really think it was cool when he transformed. But, thinking about it now it kind of reminds me of when Goku Jr. went SSJ over some bear getting killed, but Goku had to endure a lot more before he could transform. I suppose it's kind of like when Trunks and Goten could just transform, but I never really (and still don't) mind that, it was necessary unlike the other two I mentioned.

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Re: Overused characters?

Post by TheUltimateVegito » Sun Apr 26, 2015 5:02 pm

Eire wrote:OK, my argument that Barock has it worse than Brolly- his over-exposition altered his character in worse way. From lower class lout to THE LSSJ. For me it cheapened Goku's achievement- I loved the idea that he become SSJ on his own, while now it seems that it runs in the blood.
Exactly. There was no need for more Bardock. He already fulfilled his purpose in the storyline, i.e setting the foundation of Goku's story.

Showing off the original Super Saiyan in general hurts an established myth and ruins the rich sense of mystery within the lore without adding anything to the story as a whole other than unnecessarily showing dead ancestors. Now imagine how bad it is making Bardock the original Super Saiyan on top of that?
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Re: Overused characters?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:11 pm

Bardock is worst case for me as far as a character that has overstayed his welcome. Broly is a very, very, very close second.
Doctor. wrote:Bardock's story was completely ruined. The TV Special (and the manga/Minus story as well) portrayed a dark, cruel story about the universe under Freeza’s rule and the tale of a ruthless, proud and lonely Saiyan’s fight against the destruction of his home planet. It portrays Bardock as a lone warrior, just like all the rest, who alone stood up for his people, despite being the underdog, and died with honor. The fact that he's now being marketed as the Super Saiyan (not to mention that, thanks to Heroes, he's one of the strongest characters in the series now), not only completely ruins what he represents, but Goku as well. Goku’s whole theme was that he was a low class who could reach great heights with the mere wish of improving himself; the way Bardock is being marketed now implies that it was all because of his bloodline, which is something I absolutely hate in Shounen: that a protagonist only is as important as he is because of his family.

It doesn't really matter if you consider it canon to the manga, it still exists and it's still there. You can ignore it sure, but when you're replying to a thread where the main purpose is to actually acknowledge these pieces of "non-canon" stories, then you have to acknowledge them. Bardock wasn't badly utilized, low screen time doesn't mean he was badly utilized, that's why he was loved so much. If you say he is just because he died, then you don't get what his purpose was. He served it, just like Future Gohan served his purpose way back, and he's not being completely stuck on every piece of DB merchandise that comes out, nor should he. Bardock's being overused in the same vein Broly was a few years back (and still is), and it makes him almost unbearable.
Doctor., you deserve a medal for saying this.
Flame Dragon wrote:Beerus.

Toriyama new answer for everything?

A wizard Beerus did it.
Huh?! :eh:

Do people forget that Beerus is tens of millions of years old? I mean, considering how long he has lived and sort of role he has to play, why wouldn't he be somehow significantly involved in one way or another to the Dragon Ball lore and shaping of the plot and universe? I honestly think it's refreshing that we have a Dragon Ball character that has lived for so long and has actually contributed a significant amount to the universe during that long lifespan. As supposed to a character that has lived 75+ millions years and has next to nothing important during that lifespan.
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Re: Overused characters?

Post by Dyno » Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:39 pm

Freeza. After his death, he has been featured in Dragon Ball GT, Hatchyack's OVA, Movie 12 and plenty of games.

Nowadays he continues to be overused, back in Tarble's OVA he is mentioned, he appeared once again in the remake of Hatchyack's OVA, he appears in Episode of Bardock, if I remember correctly, he gets a role in Dragon Ball Online, expanding more what we saw of him in the series, he appears in Battle of Gods and he returned in this new movie. He got a lot of attention in DBH and he is getting more with God Mission series. Not to mention Zenkai Battle Royale. After his death, he serves no purpose anymore but he continues to get new stuff unnecessarily.

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Re: Overused characters?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:15 pm

Besides the third Broly movie, I don't think he's overused. Or at least, badly used for what he is, anyways. He's the only evil super saiyan in the series. Saiyans, as we know, have a near limitless potential, and this one, in particular, is naturally stronger than the rest, so video game companies have fun depicting "what-if" scenarios and transformations for him. His status, psychotic personality and immense/intimidating stature also makes him the optimal secret boss; he's reminiscent to Akuma. What people hate the most about this character has nothing to do with Broly himself, but his fanbase.

Bardock, on the other hand, has overstayed his welcome. I really like the character, but he served his purpose. He was never meant to be super strong, let alone a SSJ. He was an average saiyan (maybe slightly above average), who happened to be Goku's father, and suffered a tragic fate. That's it. I liked that. I hate everything they've done to him since then. People keep mentioning his SSJ form, but have you all seen this Evil Bardock nonsense? The concept itself is bad, but he's also depicted as stronger than SSJ4 Gogeta in Heroes!
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Re: Overused characters?

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:55 pm

After his death, he has been featured in Dragon Ball GT, Hatchyack's OVA, Movie 12 and plenty of games.
I don't know how he Freeza can't appear in plenty of video games considering he is one of the main villains of the franchise and plays an integral role in the plot.
back in Tarble's OVA he is mentioned
Abo and Kado were are apart of the PTO. That was run by... Freeza. Why wouldn't you expect him to get mentioned?
he appears in Episode of Bardock
he appears in Battle of Gods.
Both of those instances were just flashbacks of significant events that Freeza was integrally involved in. In BOG, it was when Goku became a SSJ and in EOB it was when Freeza destroyed Planet Vegeta.

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Re: Overused characters?

Post by SSJ Human » Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:30 pm

I wouldn't say that Goku is overused since he's the main character, but I'd argue the fact that some other characters need to take the spotlight for once. That was why I've always loved the Cell saga because it made use of all the Z-Fighters (Goku, Gohan, Vegeta, Piccolo, Trunks, Krillin, Tien and Yamcha) in some meaningful way. There was never anytime where I wondered why they were even there. Even in the movies, having them defeat someone is something worthy of noting.

Beerus is kind of getting used a lot but the people who say that about him are saying the same about Broly. If Beerus is in another movie, they'll act as though Bio-Broly never existed.

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Re: Overused characters?

Post by IDreamtIWasABee » Sun Apr 26, 2015 8:41 pm

Gotenks. Not because he gets a lot of screen time, but because he's the only Fusion we ever see, even though you'd think all the other, far stronger Z fighters would have Fused into different kinds of new warriors by now.

But no. Just Goten and Trunks.

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