Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

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ABED
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Re: Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

Post by ABED » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:11 pm

rereboy wrote:
Alex9196 wrote:yes it is used for exchange, but that doesnt change the fact that it was invented by humanity or that it is just paper.
i have absolutely no clue about economics but before money was invented i am pretty sure people just traded there stuff without money.
It's basically the same thing, only, instead of having a direct exchange of goods or work, you have an indirect exchange with money in the middle. This makes transactions way easier and quick because you don't have to have the goods close by to exchange, you just keep the money, and there's automatically much less negotiations and arguments about the exchanges on the small scale. Money is just a convenient way to exchange.
Exactly, it's called the double coincidence of wants. Money came about to get around the problems of goods for good. Money isn't paper. Money was things that many people valued like gold. Money simply made it easier because it was lighter and more transportable. I love economics, now back to the topic.
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Re: Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

Post by Captain Space » Mon Jul 20, 2015 12:15 pm

Someone will probably say this is off-topic soon, but won't they look silly when DB Super's transsexual final villain hatches a world domination plot based on exploiting financial loopholes and reducing the world back to a bartering-based economy.
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Re: Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

Post by irreality » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:43 pm

On topic replies to the subject:

Whis: It would be sort of cool for him to be gay, but I'll go with the in-general-gods-are-asexual-in-db trope. So I don't see this happening. OTOH, these are Gods that are inordinately obsessed with food -- maybe they have other worldly interests, who knows?

On the general subject of inclusion in DB: I don't think it should be done to make a statement, or something like that. I agree that is cheap. I don't think every show needs a gay or token character of every sort. But I think adding diversity to the cast (especially when the cast is this *large*) is important because it adds realism and flavor to the universe. The real world is diverse, and when fictional universes are diverse it adds something. I like the fact that the Red Ribbon army was diverse -- it makes it seem like a global threat. There are some problematic portrayals, but it is something. I like thinking that Mr. Satan could be biracial. Or that Uub is from somewhere in the equivalent of East Africa/Middle East/India/Polynesia. It makes the world bigger than just "East/West". Same with having gay characters. I actually think bisexual characters are something that could work better since they are not expected to have stereotypical portrayals and they can always have a straight relationship later if the plot calls for babies or something.

On our villains (or heroes) having atypical gender or sexuality: I think, if they do this, they will follow a previously established trope of "weird alien phenotype" instead of explicitly trans or gay. Jaco doesn't wear pants and has no genitals in the usual place, and the person he married looks identical to him and he pees through his head. Namekians equally have no genitals and reproduce asexually and are aromantic. Who knows what is up with Freeza and Cold? He has a dad, does he have a mom? What is Buu's sexuality: if he makes a "girl" buu, is that part of him? So I think if they go this route, they would go the "this is not something humans have a word for" rather than something explicitly binary. Which can be extremely progressive or an incredible cop out depending on your view point.

In general, I don't think we are going to get a human trans character. I think a human/binary alien crossdresser might actually be something they could do that could be interesting, provided they don't go for extreme mockery, but more someone who uses it as a stage performance/disguise since they have played with that concept before.

A note on my feelings on Saiyans: Soo… I think Saiyans, or specifically Goku and maybe Vegeta, might be bisexual. Not in the sense that I think either of them (or any Saiyan) is all that motivated to go get a same sex partner. But I think because sex and sexuality are something that is so secondary to them -- they are more "orientation agnostic" than they are into men and women separately.

I'm not sure Goku can actually tell male from female all that well, even now. (maybe it stems from Humans being aliens and having the wrong pheromones, who knows). I think he just goes on pattern recognition but doesn't really understand the difference. I think he loves Chichi and obviously has sex with her, but I think he could have felt the same about any gender if the circumstances were right at the right time. I don't think he would cheat on her or break up with her to get a boyfriend -- he has too much loyalty to do that, but primarily because sex is not a driving force to him -- he isn't going to put effort into getting something new if he doesn't need to, and he isn't going to complicate his relationship with his family and friends for it.

I think Vegeta might be similar, but in a different way, where fighting is his primary drive and relationship things seem to fluster him. Again, it is clear he loves his wife (in his own weird, standoffish way), but he really would rather be fighting and training that caring too much about it. But he is affected by things like Bulma calling him cute the same way he is about Goku holding his hand -- even though the latter should really not be an issue, even if Goku is his rival. Anyway, there is also the throwaway comment Nappa makes about there being sexually compatible females on earth and they should totally get to making the babies -- Vegeta seems more interested in getting stronger than potentially having rivals, though. I don't know, none of this adds up to anything, really. I just think Saiyans don't think about sex the way humans do, specifically the way Bulma and Yamcha and Krillin and #18 do -- all who are about the same age as Goku and Vegeta.

ANYWAY -- this is very long, so I'll end this here.

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Re: Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

Post by Captain Space » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:52 pm

All very interesting, especially the last part, which is not something I'd at all considered, though I will say this:
irreality wrote:
Whis: It would be sort of cool for him to be gay, but I'll go with the in-general-gods-are-asexual-in-db trope. So I don't see this happening.
Are they?

Image

What is Buu's sexuality: if he makes a "girl" buu, is that part of him?
Dragon Ball Online (which was at least partially penned story-wise by Toriyama) has Buu creating a female Majin as a partner, and Xenoverse uses this idea too (in both cases, to explain the origin of the playable Majin race).

Also, this:

Image

Image
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Re: Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

Post by irreality » Mon Jul 20, 2015 1:57 pm

I completely blanked on Elder Kai. You are right. :p

Yeah, I was going with the DBO stuff about Buu making a female Buu. I was more wondering, what does that even mean, for him to split and make a girl buu? Buu seems to mimick a lot of human actions, but I'm not sure he understands what they mean, of it they mean something really different to him.

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Re: Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

Post by Doctor. » Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:03 pm

I'm assuming as Boo's evil was expelled and formed another Boo, Boo's sexuality (?) formed another Boo too...? The whole thing is confusing.

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Re: Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

Post by Captain Space » Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:04 pm

irreality wrote:I completely blanked on Elder Kai. You are right. :p

Yeah, I was going with the DBO stuff about Buu making a female Buu. I was more wondering, what does that even mean, for him to split and make a girl buu? Buu seems to mimick a lot of human actions, but I'm not sure he understands what they mean, of it they mean something really different to him.
(And also Whis' reaction in Super episode 3.)

That's true. He does seem to be something of a blank slate/info-sponge. He reads a magazine and moulds his face because "that's what Earth girls like". Bibidi tells him destroying stuff is good--"Okay!" Mr. Satan tells him it's bad--"Okay!" Hell, that's even reflected in how he instantly learns and copies techniques.
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Re: Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

Post by DBZGTKOSDH » Mon Jul 20, 2015 2:08 pm

Mr. Boo created Miss Boo the same way he created Pure Evil Boo, except that he was horny instead of angry, after reading the novel “Bob and Margaret’s Forbidden Games”, a classic of erotic fiction that Mr. Satan had. They had children by tearing various parts from all over their bodies, mixing them together, and firing a Love-Love Beam on them. After having many children, his life-spawn was shortened, and he eventually passed away.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.

Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.

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Re: Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

Post by DemonRin » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:21 pm

I would really like it if it were casually mentioned somewhere that Whis is actually gay. It seems pretty obvious so far that's what they're going for, but it could all end up being stereotyping. IE, he's a massive feminine guy stereotype and we're just reading that as Gay when in reality, he's not.

Maybe we'll get some kind of confirmation when we see them interact with Champa's assistant? Either way I enjoy the character. I like that he's a bit stereotypical, but not the butt of jokes due to it and is treated like a well rounded character.

I've just kinda grown to accept that I'll never see myself represented in any media, Dragonball included but far from the only one, and just try to live with it.
But it's really cool that there (Might) be a respectable gay character in DB finally.
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Re: Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

Post by rereboy » Mon Jul 20, 2015 4:45 pm

I prefer when shows don't make big deal out of things and stuff just fits right there seamlessly as normal stuff so to me his portrayal is just fine. His moment in the last episode was clear enough to me.

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Re: Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

Post by Alex9196 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:17 pm

before the scene from super episode 3 and the loads of comments here, i would have never thought that whis was gay. and i am still not convinced. i mean, sure the scene was pretty weird, but i am not gonna judge him because of one scene.

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Re: Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

Post by OWmyDragonBallz » Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:42 pm

There already was a tranny villain in the English dub. Freeza. :thumbup:

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Re: Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

Post by DemonRin » Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:48 pm

OWmyDragonBallz wrote:There already was a tranny villain in the English dub. Freeza. :thumbup:
Uh....... mind not using that word please?

Also, ugh at the whole comment.....
Last edited by DemonRin on Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

Post by Alex9196 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:48 pm

OWmyDragonBallz wrote:There already was a tranny villain in the English dub. Freeza. :thumbup:
you think so? that is my 2 favorite freeza voice. i liked it.

also its weird, i heard it many times now that freezas voice makes him more feminin or something.

but i never heard gokus voice makes him feminin (japanese)

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Re: Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

Post by Captain Space » Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:56 pm

Alex9196 wrote:before the scene from super episode 3 and the loads of comments here, i would have never thought that whis was gay. and i am still not convinced. i mean, sure the scene was pretty weird, but i am not gonna judge him because of one scene.
You're saying it like it's a bad thing XD
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Re: Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

Post by Alex9196 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:03 pm

oh, i guess you missunderstood me. i was just trying to say that i wont judge him because of 1 scene. allthough i couldnt really take him seriously if such scenes would happen more often. but that has nothing to do with gay scenes. i also couldnt take him seriously if he would be watching girls all the time like roshi.

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Re: Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

Post by PhoenixEX » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:11 pm

LGBTQ characters IMO:
- General Blue
- Zarbon
- Whis
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Re: Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

Post by funrush » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:25 pm

Alex9196 wrote:
OWmyDragonBallz wrote:There already was a tranny villain in the English dub. Freeza. :thumbup:
you think so? that is my 2 favorite freeza voice. i liked it.

also its weird, i heard it many times now that freezas voice makes him more feminin or something.

but i never heard gokus voice makes him feminin (japanese)
I mean Freeza has a more androgynous appearance than Goku does, I know a lot of my friends growing up thought Freeza was a girl at first.

Edit: Also, if Whis turns out to be gay, I'd say your first LGBT character being the strongest in the entire universe is a pretty good start.
Last edited by funrush on Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

Post by irreality » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:43 pm

Although I can't say I'm surprised, I am confused as to why people think Zarbon is canonically gay, other than effeminate stereotypes. There are tons of pretty boy effeminate characters in anime that are there for crossover *female* demographic, not to appeal to LBGT folks. He acts like a bishounen, mostly. Bulma is attracted to him, and the dear female audience that picked up this issue of Dragon Ball, is supposed to be as well. Outside of fanfic, I don't think he is meant to be gay. He doesn't act flirty with men or anything else to indicate same sex attraction, he is just vain asshole.

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Re: Trans/Gay/Bi-sexual villians

Post by fadeddreams5 » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:56 pm

Whis is the greatest thing to come out of modern DB. <3
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