Torishima's thoughts on when the series should've ended

[sintzu]

Comedian Kendo Kobayashi held an interview for Livedoor News with Akira Toriyama's previous editor at Shonen Jump and current head of Shueisha, Kazuhiko Torishima. Kobayashi asked for Torishima's opinion on the series now that he is no longer working directly on it. He responded, wondering where the show should end. When asked where he thought the best place to end Dragon Ball, Torishima replied, “Of course, it should've been wrapped up with the Frieza Saga.”

He then elaborated on the Cell arc with, "If you're going to have an old fart [Dr. Gero] fight ladies, then it's best to call it a day." Torishima thinks that if Akira Toriyama had retired the Dragon Ball series after Frieza, he could have went on to produce a third hit series.

http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/interes ... eza/.88918

What are you're thoughts ? The Dragon World would be a lot smaller then it is if that's where it ended so thankfully it didn't cause we would've missed out on so much content that made the franchise into the hit that it is today which probably wouldn't be possible if it ended there.

I agree on his other point about Toriyama making another hit manga but it's success wouldn't last like DB which has become a legend that will always be around and always get new products made for it.

[shonenhikada]

Fight ladies ? WTF. Is he calling Z-senshi girls ?

[Hujio]

Oh man, I want to respond to this SO bad on ANN, but I'm in a time crunch... maybe later tonight. Anyway, right off the bat I can tell you that Kendō Kobayashi did not do this interview for Livedoor News, as he is in no way affiliated with them. That's just, 100% false, and is frankly terrible reporting on ANN's part. Livedoor News is just a news site, like CNN or what have you. They themselves were merely reporting on an interview that Kendō Kobayashi had with Kazuhiko Torishima way back on May 8th (almost a month ago), on his own TV show, called Mandō Kobayashi.

As for Torishima's comments, it's all based on hindsight. He isn't saying if he had his way at the time that's where he would have ended it. What he's saying is that as things moved along story-wise, that was clearly the best spot to have ended the serialization. Of course, with the way it's written, and no additional context given, no one will actually interpret it like that. The fact that we know Torishima hated No. 19 and 20, specifically calling Toriyama and telling him such, gives us a pretty good indication of what he would have done. Torishima even said in his Daizenshuu 2 interview that if he had been his editor at the time, instead of Yū Kondō, Toriyama wouldn't have been able to fly by the seat of his pants so much. So yeah, it's all hindsight from someone that wasn't even involved with the series at that point. I respect the man, but I'm not sure this statement holds much weight. I mean, I think everyone can admit that the Freeza arc would have been a perfect place to end things, so he's not really saying anything revolutionary here.

[Hellspawn28]

Well they got their info from Kotaku after all. Kotaku likes to make clickbait articles.

[Basaku]

Android/Cell arc is at the very least as good if not better than Saiyan/Freea arc so honestly, he's just wrong

[TheDevilsCorpse]

He's not wrong. He can have whatever opinion he likes.

Personally, the Cell Arc is the second worst arc of the series for me. I wouldn't say I wanted the series to end with Freeza though, because I wouldn't want to miss out on Buu (or most of the recent material).

[Saiga]

Old fart fighting ladies? Clearly referring to Gero, but he doesn't fight any girls... unless he's referring to 18?

Can anyone clarify this?

[Gyt Kaliba]

Pretty sure he has to be referring to 18, even though Gero never does fight her...heck, from what I recall, she never even hit him, it was 17 that finished him off all on his own wasn't it?

Regardless, I'm sure this is gonna spark an all new set of 'was originally meant to end with Freeza' rumors, ack.

[Lord Beerus]

It's all in hindsight. Of course the Freeza arc may have seemed like the perfect choice to end the story, but at the same token, the franchise produced many more great moments and characters in the following arcs. Hindsight is 20/20.

[Saiga]

Pretty sure he has to be referring to 18, even though Gero never does fight her...heck, from what I recall, she never even hit him, it was 17 that finished him off all on his own wasn't it?

Regardless, I'm sure this is gonna spark an all new set of 'was originally meant to end with Freeza' rumors, ack.

If that's so... that's pretty shocking. "Females being fighters? May as well end this then."

Fucking hell. I'm trying to thing what else it could mean but really can't think of anything but 18.

[Herms]

For reference's sake, Kazuhiko Torishima was Toriyama's editor from the start of DB up to the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. Yu Kondo then took over editing duties for all of the Saiyan and Freeza arcs, plus the android stuff up to when Cell reached his perfect form. Fuyuto Takeda then took over for the rest of the Cell arc and the Boo arc.

In other words, Torishima wasn't directly working on the series at all during the entire "Z" era, though he did call Toriyama up to voice his displeasure with the designs for androids 19 and 20, then 17 and 18 after that. "Geezers fighting ladies" sounds like he's repeating those same complaints all these years later.

Kondo was the editor actually working on the series during the Freeza arc and the transition from that into the android arc, so it'd be interesting to hear his thoughts on the matter and compare it with Torishima's.

...I shudder to think how many people are automatically going to misread "Torishima" as "Toriyama" and think these comments are from him. Going to be fun correcting that misconception...

[Kamiccolo9]

Pretty sure he has to be referring to 18, even though Gero never does fight her...heck, from what I recall, she never even hit him, it was 17 that finished him off all on his own wasn't it?

Regardless, I'm sure this is gonna spark an all new set of 'was originally meant to end with Freeza' rumors, ack.

If that's so... that's pretty shocking. "Females being fighters? May as well end this then."

Fucking hell. I'm trying to thing what else it could mean but really can't think of anything but 18.

The only logical conclusion is that he considers Vegeta a little bitch.

[Saiga]

The only logical conclusion is that he considers Vegeta a little bitch.

Funny, I also thought it might be a crack against 17 or Trunks, new characters in that arc that are arguably more effeminate than others.

I'm not sure that would improve things.

Also, why the hell is Torishima so opposed to "geezers" when Roshi is a thing?

[Akumaito Beam]

For reference's sake, Kazuhiko Torishima was Toriyama's editor from the start of DB up to the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai.

Stop, my ego can only get so validated!

[TheKingOfKamehamehas]

Calling Dr. Gero an old fart seems something that probably wouldn't come out of his mouth. That being said, Torishima does seem the most nervous about Toriyama's decisions in the past. Probably ANN just making some really bad information.
To me I always enjoyed his ideas and agreed with his opinions. Start of Dragon Ball to the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai are my favorite parts of the series.

[Herms]

Calling Dr. Gero an old fart seems something that probably wouldn't come out of his mouth. That being said, Torishima does seem the most nervous about Toriyama's decisions in the past. Probably ANN just making some really bad information. .

Well, to reiterate what Hujio said, we've known for years now (ever since Shenlong Times No.2's round table interview in 1995) that when the android arc was running in Jump, Torishima called Toriyama up to complain that the big scary androids just turned out to be a "geezer" and a "fatso". That's what prompted Toriyama to create 17 and 18, who Torishima dismissed as just being a pair of kids. Thus Cell came to be. That's all old new. Even the wording is pretty much the same. And Torishjma has been infamous for freely criticizing and rejecting Toriyama's ideas ever since the Dr. Slump days. The only big new thing here is Torishima's idea that it would have been better for Toriyama to have started up a third long-running series after the Freeza arc, rather than continuing on with DB. This matches the creation of DB itself: when Toriyama wanted to end Dr. Slump, Torishima only agreed on condition that he start up another series soon afterward, which ended up being DB.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Didn't Roshi fight Lunch a few times back in DB? How does that not qualify as being what he said?

[Adamant]

The "old fart fighting ladies" quote doesn't make sense because it's mistranslated. It should say "when they're fighting old farts and ladies".

[Saiga]

The "old fart fighting ladies" quote doesn't make sense because it's mistranslated. It should say "when they're fighting old farts and ladies".

Oh, thank you for the correction. Now it's perfectly clear.

[SSJGFrieza]

Well they got their info from Kotaku after all. Kotaku likes to make clickbait articles.

Yeah especially since they're so anti Japan

The "old fart fighting ladies" quote doesn't make sense because it's mistranslated. It should say "when they're fighting old farts and ladies".

I bet it written like that on purpose, Kotaku are nothing but a tabloid website