How exactly Gohan could have been better in the Boo arc

[fadeddreams5]

It's a show about fighting! And this guy was established to have greater potential in this area than any other character, yet he never does anything with it after the Cell Games. He could do that scholarly stuff regardless, but as a viewer, I could give two craps and would prefer him to progress as a fighter and hero.

Dragon Ball may be about fighting, but when the character(s) stops fighting, and I realize that I don't give a shit about him/her, then I won't give a shit about him/her when he/she is fighting. So that characters progress as a fighter would mean nothing to me and then the character becomes worthless in my mind.

I'm not talking about the actual personality of the character, his interactions with other characters, or his antics outside of fighting. I mean, it's more important in this show to progress as a fighter than as a family man or successful scholar. You can have both, but one is simply more important than the other, especially when it just so happens that the character has been established to have more potential in this area than every other, and ended a saga losing as much as he gained because of it.

Also, there is a modicum of slice-of-life episodes (mostly filler) in this show (DBZ) compared to the fighting. We generally see the progression of characters through their adventures, not every day family life. And those adventures usually involve fighting. >_>;

[Rocketman]

Look at the bang.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

He has that "base" bang in the full-page splash panel right after he activates Mystic, and when he shouts to Goku about how incredible his power is, and when he asks for a kame gi, and when he says goodbye to Kibito. It's hardly an indicator.

[NitroEX]

I think him becoming a scholar is a perfectly suitable ending for Gohan. Leave the fighting and defending of Earth up to others who are better suited and are better fighters to begin with. Attaining a family is a good ending, that's hardly lame.

Becoming a scholar has little to no relevance on Gohan's story and character arc. Even having a family (as nice as it is) is totally unanticipated as he barely showed interest in girls or raising children during the story. These things are great extras and make for a nice happy ending but they clearly have never been the goal for him so it's bizarre that people point to this as justification for making him irrelevant, it's a hollow victory that leaves the character with very little closure (from the audience's perspective). I personally think they could have explored the father-son relationship further in the Buu arc since that's what Gohan showed most interest in (seeing his dad again). We could have had a coming of age story that forced him to stop idolizing him, step out of his father's shadow and take charge himself. I think that would have made more sense personally since it would have felt connected to the past arcs and continued the theme of Gohan maturing throughout the story.

Most stories have heroes that don't lust for fights and battles but it's the job of the story to put them in tough situations so that they're truly tested and are forced to grow. The Buu arc did a half assed job of this and Gohan's character suffered as a result.

[ABED]

<br abp="690">I think him becoming a scholar is a perfectly suitable ending for Gohan. Leave the fighting and defending of Earth up to others who are better suited and are better fighters to begin with. Attaining a family is a good ending, that's hardly lame.

<br abp="691"><br abp="692">Becoming a scholar has little to no relevance on Gohan's story and character arc. Even having a family (as nice as it is) is totally unanticipated as he barely showed interest in girls or raising children during the story. These things are great extras and make for a nice happy ending but they clearly have never been the goal for him so it's bizarre that people point to this as justification for making him irrelevant, it's a hollow victory that leaves the character with very little closure (from the audience's perspective). I personally think they could have explored the father-son relationship further in the Buu arc since that's what Gohan showed most interest in (seeing his dad again). We could have had a coming of age story that forced him to stop idolizing him, step out of his father's shadow and take charge himself. I think that would have made more sense personally since it would have felt connected to the past arcs and continued the theme of Gohan maturing throughout the story.<br abp="693"><br abp="694">Most stories have heroes that don't lust for fights and battles but it's the job of the story to put them in tough situations so that they're truly tested and are forced to grow. The Buu arc did a half assed job of this and Gohan's character suffered as a result.

Huh? It does have relevance, and he did show interest in Videl, and up until that point, Gohan was so young and not around girls. Because Toriyama doesn't hit you over the head early on it makes no sense for Gohan to want to date or get married? He wasn't an adult during the series, of course he's not thinking of marriage and kids, but that's a natural course for any person. I think you're overthinking this issue. Gohan said he wanted to be a scholar since the beginning. What exactly to you is growth? Realizing what someone truly wants in life IS growth. What is Gohan's arc to you? IS it to be a fighter? If he's progressing as a fighter then he becomes just another fighter. Gohan's desire to not be one except as a means to help Is unique, and I'd rather Toriyama not make him the main hero anyway.

It's a show about fighting! And this guy was established to have greater potential in this area than any other character, yet he never does anything with it after the Cell Games. He could do that scholarly stuff regardless, but as a viewer, I could give two craps and would prefer him to progress as a fighter and hero.

That doesn't mean every character has to be a fighter, even someone who is a good one. Gohan has POTENTIAL, but potential doesn't pay the bills and if he doesn't want to do it, then A logical character arc is to not pursue it.

[sbk]

End of Z was perfect for him, he's focusing on his studies because that's what he loves just like in the Buu arc, but this time he didn't let himself get weaker, and should something arise he'll have the power to do something about it, or when he doesn't, at least it wasn't because he slacked off. This makes perfect sense, considering he was constantly hating and feeling guilty that he let himself get weaker in the Buu arc.

It's just these new movies that stripped off any kind of growth for him. It's sad that Gohan and others are reduced to disappointments, joke characters and useless punching bags for daring to have other interests besides fighting

[NitroEX]

Huh? It does have relevance, and he did show interest in Videl, and up until that point, Gohan was so young and not around girls. Because Toriyama doesn't hit you over the head early on it makes no sense for Gohan to want to date or get married? He wasn't an adult during the series, of course he's not thinking of marriage and kids, but that's a natural course for any person. I think you're overthinking this issue. Gohan said he wanted to be a scholar since the beginning. What exactly to you is growth? Realizing what someone truly wants in life IS growth. What is Gohan's arc to you? IS it to be a fighter? If he's progressing as a fighter then he becomes just another fighter. Gohan's desire to not be one except as a means to help Is unique, and I'd rather Toriyama not make him the main hero anyway.

I disagree about Videl, he showed interest in her the same way I show interest in a friend. There's hitting you over the head with romance and then there's doing what Toriyama did which is essentially making him so passive to her that it appears he's not interested at all. I think it could have been done better by at least having him chase and try to gain her affection in some way, that doesn't mean the whole thing becomes a love story but having a little more meaningful interaction between the two would have made more sense if the end goal was simply a marriage like many seem to believe. Their romantic relationship was developed almost entirely off screen and treated as not important so how can that be a meaningful conclusion to Gohan's story? How does that connect to his experiences as a child and give us closure to the character we've been following all this time?

If we're judging Gohan as if he's a real person then sure, getting married and getting a career is great and shows growth etc but keep in mind this is a story we're talking about, not real life. The events we're shown in a story should have greater significance and lead to a conclusion that makes sense for that character, what we're shown of Gohan is him fighting alongside his father during childhood NOT sitting at home or in a class studying to be a scholar. If the story did have a heavy focus on studying and aspiring to be a scholar/husband then I'd see where you're coming from but it doesn't, it focuses on him fighting and being forced into dangerous situations that he must overcome. We're explicitly shown that Gohan is a prodigy at fighting (like father, like son) and has huge reserves of power to use in times of need. He has a human side and doesn't yearn to fight like the other Saiyans but that's part of what makes him interesting, unique and a character worth exploring.

[ABED]

Or it's that he's not great at writing romance, but it's clear that there's interest between the two. It all brings closure to his story because he was forced into this life by circumstances. Now he's finally able to do what he wanted and there are those better suited for the role Toriyama was trying to push him into.

we're shown of Gohan is him fighting alongside his father during childhood NOT sitting at home or in a class studying to be a scholar.

We're constantly reminded that he was studying. Of course they aren't going to constantly show it in the manga (it's there more in the anime) because it's not exciting, but it's talked about and the last arc begins with him going to school. When we first meet him, we're told that his mother wants him to study, not fight. He says he wants to be a scholar, and even Goku tells him at the Cell Games that if he wants to go back to being a scholar, Cell needs to be defeated. I'm not sure where you get the idea that this isn't set up and established clearly.

He has a human side and doesn't yearn to fight like the other Saiyans but that's part of what makes him interesting, unique and a character worth exploring.

And becoming a better fighter isn't the only thing to explore. Reluctant heroes are a dime a dozen. It's nice seeing him finally able to get what he wants and not have to feel ashamed for that fact. It only focuses on him fighting because it's a fighting manga, not a classroom drama.

[sbk]

But no, then he becomes the strongest being on the planet, yet continues his old ways of slacking, even after attaining a family. He's gone no where. No progression what-so-ever. He's just lame in every single category.

It's not progress only if you think his end goal should be to become stronger. I think him becoming a scholar is a perfectly suitable ending for Gohan. Leave the fighting and defending of Earth up to others who are better suited and are better fighters to begin with. Attaining a family is a good ending, that's hardly lame.

So he has to resign with the fact that he's a failure when it comes to protecting his family and should just rely on his dad to do the hard work? Unless you don't care for the character, how is that a satisfying ending at all? >.> Especially for a character was relevant (plot-wise and/or power-wise) from his introduction to the end of the manga, even surpassing Goku's power during the Raditz, Cell, and Buu arc, and one that was constantly fighting and contributing to the defeat of several main villains in the manga

[ABED]

But no, then he becomes the strongest being on the planet, yet continues his old ways of slacking, even after attaining a family. He's gone no where. No progression what-so-ever. He's just lame in every single category.

It's not progress only if you think his end goal should be to become stronger. I think him becoming a scholar is a perfectly suitable ending for Gohan. Leave the fighting and defending of Earth up to others who are better suited and are better fighters to begin with. Attaining a family is a good ending, that's hardly lame.

So he has to resign with the fact that he's a failure when it comes to protecting his family and should just rely on his dad to do the hard work? How is that a satisfying ending at all? >.> Especially for a character was relevant (plot-wise and/or power-wise) from his introduction to the end of the manga, even surpassing Goku's power during the Raditz, Cell, and Buu arc, and one that was constantly fighting and contributing to the defeat of main villains in the manga

No, he can simply decide that it's not his passion in life. He's strong enough and Goku's more interested in pushing his limits. Gohan is more than strong enough to protect his family from huge threats. How is it satisfying to push a character into a role that he doesn't want out of duty? Other characters have surpassed Goku, and Gohan contributed mostly out of necessity. Gohan's power wasn't chosen, it was a matter of genetics. Studying is something he chose.

At the end of Z, there were no threats. Buu was the strongest and he was defeated. There was no need for Gohan to get any stronger.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

He has that "base" bang in the full-page splash panel right after he activates Mystic, and when he shouts to Goku about how incredible his power is, and when he asks for a kame gi, and when he says goodbye to Kibito. It's hardly an indicator.

That was only the first chapter with Ultimate Gohan though (chapter 497). From the next chapter up until Gohan's death, Gohan consistently had a new hairstyle. So, either Toriyama decided to give him a new hairstyle after the 1st chapter, or the change took effect slowly. I don't know if it was intentional, but Gohan's bang seems to move slowly to the other side panel after panel in chapter 497.

There is also the possibility that Toriyama screwed it up after Gohan's revival I guess, and accidentally drew Gohan with his old hairstyle, but with all the implications about Ultimate working like a transformation, I doubt it.

[sbk]

No, he can simply decide that it's not his passion in life. At the end of Z, there were no threats. Buu was the strongest and he was defeated. There was no need for Gohan to get any stronger.

He enjoyed fighting in the Buu arc.

The Buu arc taught him that peace is a fragile thing and that there are always threats looming. He was constantly lamenting in that arc that he let himself get weaker, and also felt guilty that he couldn't help because of it. It only makes sense that he keeps up his power after that, so that something like that never happens again. And he did (at EOZ), before RoF retconned that.

Gohan letting his daddy do all the hard work instead of trying to protect his family on his own is just completely out of character

Studying is something he chose.

Being a scholar/family man and keeping up his power so that he's able to protect his family and friends to the best of his ability aren't mutually excusive

[Vice]

Gohan was more than fine enough in the Boo arc. He was a poor replacement for Goku and wasn't fit to be the main character yet still got the benefit of being the strongest unfused fighter in the series. He doesn't need nor deserve anything more than that.

[ABED]

And he did (at EOZ), before RoF retconned that.

No he didn't. At the end of Z, Gohan was a bookworm.

Gohan letting his daddy do all the hard work instead of trying to protect his family on his own is just completely out of character

How do you figure?

Being a scholar/family man and keeping up his power so that he's able to protect his family and friends to the best of his ability aren't mutually excusive

No, but one is going to neccessarily take up more time than the other in order for him to be great at least one of them.

He enjoyed fighting in the Buu arc.

When? Are we talking early Buu arc like for the world tournament? That's more sportsmanship and recreational than combat like Goku vs. Vegeta or Piccolo type fighting.

The Buu arc taught him that peace is a fragile thing and that there are always threats looming.

Did it? Sure that's a rational lesson one could draw, IF one chooses to learn it. Honestly, i like the idea that Gohan settles down and Pan that takes after her grandfather.

I agree with Vice, Goku's more suited for the main character role, plus Goku IS DB. Gohan is a reluctant hero, whereas the feel and tone of the story suits Goku better.

[fadeddreams5]

No, but one is going to neccessarily take up more time than the other in order for him to be great at least one of them.

That doesn't mean every character has to be a fighter, even someone who is a good one. Gohan has POTENTIAL, but potential doesn't pay the bills and if he doesn't want to do it, then A logical character arc is to not pursue it.

You're treating Gohan as though he's a real life person.

[sbk]

No he didn't. At the end of Z, Gohan was a bookworm.

He was constantly regretting that he lost so much strength back in the Buu arc, and at EOZ he's shown to have retained his Ultimate form. He clearly (at least) retained his power

When? Are we talking early Buu arc like for the world tournament? That's more sportsmanship and recreational than combat like Goku vs. Vegeta or Piccolo type fighting.

Constantly skipping school to fight criminals
Wanted to skip school for a month to train for the tournament
Loved training with Goten
Really enjoyed fighting Dabura
Enjoyed fighting Buu

How do you figure?

Because he was the complete opposite of that in the manga? He joined the trip to Namek rather than letting others do his job. Volunteered to fight Dabura rather let Goku/Vegeta fight. He was always eager to fight/train (out of his free will) alongside with the others to help out/protect his friends.

[ABED]

Because he was the complete opposite of that in the manga? He joined the trip to Namek rather than letting others do his job. Volunteered to fight Dabura rather let Goku/Vegeta fight. He was always eager to fight/train (out of his free will) alongside with the others to help out/protect his friends.

Is he? Gohan likes to help out, but he's more than fine letting Goku do the hard work, and you act as though if Gohan isn't the stongest or striving to be, he's failed at protecting his family.

He joined the trip to help and he felt a sense of guilt. Against Dabura, it was his turn to fight and he'll fight against the bad guys, but sans an impending doomsday, he doesn't train that much.

Constantly skipping school to fight criminals
Wanted to skip school for a month to train for the tournament
Loved training with Goten
Enjoyed fighting Buu

He likes to help out, I'm aware of that fact and have never said otherwise, plus it's not like him stopping normal thieves is difficult for him.
He enjoys sportsman like competitions and being around his friends and family.
He loves being around his brother.
I like the moment, but that seemed out of character for Gohan. It seemed more like him trying to channel his father than something he would do.

He was constantly regretting that he lost so much strength back in the Buu arc, and at EOZ he's shown to have retained his Ultimate form. He clearly (at least) retained his power

But that doesn't stop him from settling down and when is it shown that he's retained his Ultimate form? It looks no different than his base.

[DBZAOTA482]

Not to mention Videl blackmailed Gohan into participating in the Tenkaichi Budokai.

[ABED]

Not to mention Videl blackmailed Gohan into participating in the Tenkaichi Budokai.

Are you holding that against her?

[DBZAOTA482]

Not to mention Videl blackmailed Gohan into participating in the Tenkaichi Budokai.

Are you holding that against her?

Not at all.

[Rocketman]

What does everybody keep ignoring that Mystic altered Gohan's personality?

That was only the first chapter with Ultimate Gohan though (chapter 497).

Nope, his hair is drawn both ways in that chapter after he unlocks the immense power. It's not an indicator, you just want it very badly to be one.