A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

Captain Strawberry
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1265
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:59 pm
Location: Where I wander

A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Post by Captain Strawberry » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:13 am

I think one of the only reason Saiyans were naturally strong was because their gravity was higher than Earth.
Goku was a bit older than we thought when he went to Earth.
Humans are adaptable creatures and are often influenced by emotions which can affect performance.
Anyway, I think an Earthling could be strong as a Saiyan if one went regularly on gravity training higher than 10 so and so forth.
A transformation could even be accessible by asking Shenron to give something akin to the Super Saiyan since Humans and Saiyans practically look like one another.
Kuro Tenshi

I am just a simple traveller

supercat
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1641
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:25 pm

Re: A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Post by supercat » Wed Jul 29, 2015 1:39 am

Because both humans and Saiyans primarily rely on the usage of their ki to amplify their power, it's quite probable that they both have great potential in far exceeding the limitations of their physical bodies. After reaching a certain point, the meat and potatoes of their power increases seem to primarily stem from increased levels of ki. This could be reinforced by the fact that Saiyans are vulnerable (much like humans) to even the most trivial attacks when they aren't utilizing their ki to enhance their defenses.

Having said that, it's still exceedingly unlikely for the humans to possess the kind of latent power that the Saiyan race does. The latter is a warrior race with bodies that are specifically tailored for combat, while the former only has a select number of individuals who have ever reached extraordinary levels of power.

User avatar
ParkerAL
Regular
Posts: 608
Joined: Sat Mar 29, 2014 11:05 pm

Re: A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Post by ParkerAL » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:03 am

Well, naturally an individual human can be stronger than an individual Saiyan. We've seen that already. Krillin, Tienshinhan and Yamcha all surpassed Raditz and Nappa, who represented the average range of power exhibited by members of their race. Of course, whether a human can surpass the strongest of the Saiyans we've seen is another question entirely.
Favorite Movies: Alien, Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back, The Thing, Evil Dead, The Land Before Time
Favorite Shows: Cardcaptor Sakura, Doctor Who, Wallace and Gromit, Wakfu, Yu Yu Hakusho
Favorite Manga: Fullmetal Alchemist, Hunter x Hunter, Dragon Ball
Augenis wrote:The power level view into the series has trained a significant portion of the fan base into real life stereotypical members of the Freeza empire, where each and every individual is reduced to a floating number above their heads and any sudden changes to said number are met with shock and confusion.

supercat
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1641
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:25 pm

Re: A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Post by supercat » Wed Jul 29, 2015 2:43 am

Tien, Krillin, and Yamcha surpassing elites like Nappa and King Vegeta certainly is an astonishing feat.

However, one could argue that the trio was simply given better opportunities (training with legendary masters like Roshi and King Kai) than the average Saiyan. Krillin in particular had the luxury of having his potential unlocked by the Grand Elder. Had he not received such a gift, who knows where he would have ended up.

Even barring transformations, I would find it quite stunning for a human fighter to progress at the same rate as a Saiyan who is given the same opportunity.

That said, with an adept understanding of ki, it may not be out of the realm of possibilities for some humans to have far greater latent power than even the mightiest of Saiyans. The superior opportunity argument could be a mutually applicable concept as we could easily say that the power Goku and Vegeta have over their human allies is simply a result of them dedicating far more time into training. I mean, there has to be a reason why the younger generation (Gohan, Goten, and Trunks) has such unfathomable potential right?

User avatar
Attitudefan
I Live Here
Posts: 2963
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:51 pm
Location: Canada

Re: A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Post by Attitudefan » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:15 am

Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Chiaotzu seemed to adapt quicker than Goku to the 10x gravity of Kaio's planet. So, yeah, there is definitely potential for them to at least catch up to Saiyans like Piccolo did.
My favourite art style (and animation) outside Toriyama who worked on Dragon Ball: Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, Masaki Satō, Minoru Maeda, Takeo Ide, Hisashi Eguchi, Katsumi Aoshima, Tomekichi Takeuchi, Masahiro Shimanuki, Kazuya Hisada

User avatar
Avenged
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1023
Joined: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:34 pm
Contact:

Re: A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Post by Avenged » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:42 am

Pretty sure it was stated several times Saiyans are stronger due to their ability to become stronger after a near death battle. Has nothing to do with gravity.
Dragon Blog Z - A Dragon Ball Z Community

User avatar
Attitudefan
I Live Here
Posts: 2963
Joined: Tue Aug 03, 2010 9:51 pm
Location: Canada

Re: A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Post by Attitudefan » Wed Jul 29, 2015 3:58 am

Avenged wrote:Pretty sure it was stated several times Saiyans are stronger due to their ability to become stronger after a near death battle. Has nothing to do with gravity.
I didn't say that dude, reread my post. I said it gives them a POTENTIAL to CATCH UP to Saiyans. If humans can take on 10x gravity, that is quite a feat in itself. I never said they were inherently stronger than Saiyans. :!:
My favourite art style (and animation) outside Toriyama who worked on Dragon Ball: Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru, Masaki Satō, Minoru Maeda, Takeo Ide, Hisashi Eguchi, Katsumi Aoshima, Tomekichi Takeuchi, Masahiro Shimanuki, Kazuya Hisada

supercat
I'm pretty cozy, here...
Posts: 1641
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 6:25 pm

Re: A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Post by supercat » Wed Jul 29, 2015 4:14 am

While Zenkais may initially have a prominent effect on a Saiyan's power, their efficacy seems to gradually diminish as greater milestones are reached.

Captain Strawberry
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1265
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:59 pm
Location: Where I wander

Re: A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Post by Captain Strawberry » Wed Jul 29, 2015 6:44 am

Keep in mind that Krillin and the others are the first generation of z fighers so give them a break which means its only natural they will be surpassed.
Krillin surpassed master roshi by miles and miles.
Because Humans are emotional, emotions might be linked to potential. If someone had the same character and conduct as Gohan than they might have an enormous amount of potential.
Also in Xenoverse although a game, how does it make sense that my Human can touch Beerus with normal ki and SSJ3 Goku?
Kuro Tenshi

I am just a simple traveller

Captain Strawberry
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1265
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 9:59 pm
Location: Where I wander

Re: A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Post by Captain Strawberry » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:08 am

supercat wrote:Tenshinhan, Krillin, and Yamcha surpassing elites like Nappa and King Vegeta certainly is an astonishing feat.

However, one could argue that the trio was simply given better opportunities (training with legendary masters like Roshi and King Kai) than the average Saiyan. Krillin in particular had the luxury of having his potential unlocked by the Grand Elder. Had he not received such a gift, who knows where he would have ended up.

Even barring transformations, I would find it quite stunning for a human fighter to progress at the same rate as a Saiyan who is given the same opportunity.

That said, with an adept understanding of ki, it may not be out of the realm of possibilities for some humans to have far greater latent power than even the mightiest of Saiyans. The superior opportunity argument could be a mutually applicable concept as we could easily say that the power Goku and Vegeta have over their human allies is simply a result of them dedicating far more time into training. I mean, there has to be a reason why the younger generation (Gohan, Goten, and Trunks) has such unfathomable potential right?
Also, although the Humans make good progressing (Yamcha has retired as this point) and I would estimate Krillin to be stronger than Frieza tier saga which would be an astonishing feat and I would believe it since Krillin is a prodigy who trains exceptionally hard.

I think it's the training methods of the Humans, they become adaptable that their body sort of relaxs. They need more ''What the heck!?'' type of training methods; basically on a higher, extreme method of training.
They need to set higher goals for themseleves such as training 100x gravity within 10-20 days.

It can also come down to dedication too because most of the time we see the Earthlings busy with their daily lives and aren't as ambitious and passionate as Goku.
Kuro Tenshi

I am just a simple traveller

Gojin
Newbie
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Jul 24, 2015 10:26 am

Re: A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Post by Gojin » Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:44 am

Uub is human right?

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20970
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:39 pm

Gojin wrote:Uub is human right?
Yes, Oob. And he has the potential to be much stronger that a Super Saiyan. But that is only by the virtue that he is a reincarnation of Kid Boo. Personally, I don;t see how any of the humans could catch up to the Saiyans naturally. The Saiyans are just a biologically superior race in every way.

The Saiyans won the superpower lottery. The humans are still hoping to get that £100,000 jackpot on the scratchcards.

User avatar
Marco Polo
I Live Here
Posts: 2965
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:44 pm
Location: France

Re: A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Post by Marco Polo » Thu Jul 30, 2015 3:48 pm

It doesn't have to be natural though. Goku and the other main Saiyans had various supernatural powerups. If a human had tons of powerups (Karin's Sacred Water, Guru's potential unlock, Elder Kai's Mystic powerup, etc.), in addition to training under the best masters and in the best places (Hyperbolic Chamber, Afterlife, etc.), I think he or she could rival a Saiyan.

User avatar
DBZAOTA482
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6464
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:04 pm
Contact:

Re: A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:17 pm

Yajirobe and Chi-Chi I think coulda became at least as strong as the Saiyans under the right circumstances. Especially the latter... I'd love to see her get into a slap fight with #18. The series needs more female fighters.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

User avatar
Marco Polo
I Live Here
Posts: 2965
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:44 pm
Location: France

Re: A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Post by Marco Polo » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:24 pm

Chi-Chi is kinda like Gohan in that she has potential but doesn't really like fighting. Gohan wants to be a scholar while Chi-Chi just wanted to marry someone and raise a family, lol.

User avatar
Draconic
I Live Here
Posts: 2016
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:44 pm
Location: Romania

Re: A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Post by Draconic » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:25 pm

Krillin and Tien are by the end of Z pretty much stronger than the average Saiyan anyway. Nappa was considered elite and had a power level of 4000 and he was also old, so probably had his fair share of battles during his lifetime. Bardock had 10000 and Krillin surpassed him in the Namek saga. Goku and Vegeta are prodigies who also got that strong due to circumstances. I don't think any single Saiyan could become as strong as either of them.
English is not my first language !

My breakdown of the new and old transformations. Hope to update it soon with many others!

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20970
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:27 pm

Marco Polo wrote:It doesn't have to be natural though. Goku and the other main Saiyans had various supernatural powerups. If a human had tons of powerups (Karin's Sacred Water, Guru's potential unlock, Elder Kai's Mystic powerup, etc.), in addition to training under the best masters and in the best places (Hyperbolic Chamber, Afterlife, etc.), I think he or she could rival a Saiyan.
The biology of the races still plays a factor though. The Saiyan's power spike whenever any of them went into the ROSAT; Gohan especially. He went from the weakest among the Z-Fighters to leagues above stronger than the absolute peak that Cell could reach. Then Piccolo takes a turn in the ROSAT, and at that stage he was already much stronger than a Super Saiyan, and he still was much weaker than the Cell and the Super Saiyans. Why didn't he make the same gains that the Saiyans did when they went into the ROSAT? Simple. The biology of the Saiyans is just superior in comparison to the Namekians in terms of tapping into more strength through certain conditioned training. The same thing would happen to the humans. Some races are just more gifted in certain areas in comparison to other races. If any of the humans went through the Elder Kai potential unlock ritual like Gohan did, I guarantee you that the gains made would pale in comparison to what Gohan achieved. Yes, Gohan was a bit of special case with all his latent power, but the zenkai power up pretty much implies that really every Saiyan has a certain amount of immense power they can tap into. Hell, the whole concept of the zenkai power up pretty much confirms that the Saiyans won the superpower lottery. And that's not even taking into consideration Super Saiyan God.

User avatar
Marco Polo
I Live Here
Posts: 2965
Joined: Sun Feb 12, 2012 9:44 pm
Location: France

Re: A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Post by Marco Polo » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:33 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Marco Polo wrote:It doesn't have to be natural though. Goku and the other main Saiyans had various supernatural powerups. If a human had tons of powerups (Karin's Sacred Water, Guru's potential unlock, Elder Kai's Mystic powerup, etc.), in addition to training under the best masters and in the best places (Hyperbolic Chamber, Afterlife, etc.), I think he or she could rival a Saiyan.
The biology of the races still plays a factor though. The Saiyan's power spike whenever any of them went into the ROSAT; Gohan especially. He went from the weakest among the Z-Fighters to leagues above stronger than the absolute peak that Cell could reach. Then Piccolo takes a turn in the ROSAT, and at that stage he was already much stronger than a Super Saiyan, and he still was much weaker than the Cell and the Super Saiyans. Why didn't he make the same gains that the Saiyans did when they went into the ROSAT? Simple. The biology of the Saiyans is just superior in comparison to the Namekians in terms of tapping into more strength through certain conditioned training. The same thing would happen to the humans. Some races are just more gifted in certain areas in comparison to other races. If any of the humans went through the Elder Kai potential unlock ritual like Gohan did, I guarantee you that the gains made would pale in comparison to what Gohan achieved. Yes, Gohan was a bit of special case with all his latent power, but the zenkai power up pretty much implies that really every Saiyan has a certain amount of immense power they can tap into. Hell, the whole concept of the zenkai power up pretty much confirms that the Saiyans won the superpower lottery. And that's not even taking into consideration Super Saiyan God.
Sure they have a biological advantage, but the average human can still manage to rival the average Saiyan, as nicely summarized by Draconic.

And Gohan is a half-human.

User avatar
Lord Beerus
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20970
Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
Location: A temple on a giant tree
Contact:

Re: A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Jul 30, 2015 4:51 pm

Marco Polo wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote:
Marco Polo wrote:It doesn't have to be natural though. Goku and the other main Saiyans had various supernatural powerups. If a human had tons of powerups (Karin's Sacred Water, Guru's potential unlock, Elder Kai's Mystic powerup, etc.), in addition to training under the best masters and in the best places (Hyperbolic Chamber, Afterlife, etc.), I think he or she could rival a Saiyan.
The biology of the races still plays a factor though. The Saiyan's power spike whenever any of them went into the ROSAT; Gohan especially. He went from the weakest among the Z-Fighters to leagues above stronger than the absolute peak that Cell could reach. Then Piccolo takes a turn in the ROSAT, and at that stage he was already much stronger than a Super Saiyan, and he still was much weaker than the Cell and the Super Saiyans. Why didn't he make the same gains that the Saiyans did when they went into the ROSAT? Simple. The biology of the Saiyans is just superior in comparison to the Namekians in terms of tapping into more strength through certain conditioned training. The same thing would happen to the humans. Some races are just more gifted in certain areas in comparison to other races. If any of the humans went through the Elder Kai potential unlock ritual like Gohan did, I guarantee you that the gains made would pale in comparison to what Gohan achieved. Yes, Gohan was a bit of special case with all his latent power, but the zenkai power up pretty much implies that really every Saiyan has a certain amount of immense power they can tap into. Hell, the whole concept of the zenkai power up pretty much confirms that the Saiyans won the superpower lottery. And that's not even taking into consideration Super Saiyan God.
Sure they have a biological advantage, but the average human can still manage to rival the average Saiyan, as nicely summarized by Draconic.

And Gohan is a half-human.
I know for a fact that the humans could rival and keep up with the average Saiyan, ala Nappa, Raditz, King Vegeta etc. But could they keep up with them once those averages Saiyans have their zenkais and SSJ multipliers kick in? I highly doubt it. Even they received they same training requirement or mystic/ supernatural power up, I doubt the humans could keep up. The human will hit a glass ceiling much quicker than the Saiyans will.

User avatar
Draconic
I Live Here
Posts: 2016
Joined: Mon Jul 13, 2015 3:44 pm
Location: Romania

Re: A Human could be as strong as a Saiyan

Post by Draconic » Thu Jul 30, 2015 5:10 pm

Lord Beerus wrote: I know for a fact that the humans could rival and keep up with the average Saiyan, ala Nappa, Raditz, King Vegeta etc. But could they keep up with them once those averages Saiyans have their zenkais and SSJ multipliers kick in? I highly doubt it. Even they received they same training requirement or mystic/ supernatural power up, I doubt the humans could keep up. The human will hit a glass ceiling much quicker than the Saiyans will.
High gravity training and unlocked potential could at least put them on par with a Namek Goku level Saiyan. And since, except Vegeta, no full blooded Saiyan achieved such power in at least 1000 years (assuming it takes a certain amount of power to become a SSJ), it's safe to assume they could keep up. And the average one doesn't train but rely on zenkais and Oozaru and we know after a while zenkais become unnoticeable.
A hard working human like Tien, combined with Krillin's potential unlocked, plus some special training (high gravity, ROSAT) could keep up with, at least, a Super Saiyan. The thing is, no human actually did this.
English is not my first language !

My breakdown of the new and old transformations. Hope to update it soon with many others!

Post Reply