"Heroic" Goku or "Serious" Goku?

[HybridSaiyan]

Which one do you guys prefer? I haven't seen much of Kai but from what I've heard Sean Is making Goku sound really rough and serious like. Now I know In the manga this is typical of him and that he swears a lot but for me, nah. It aint Goku at all, definitely not the same hero I grew up with. Whenever i hear him curse is just makes him loose all that sense of pureness. I'm sure you know where I'm coming from. Or maybe it's just because I'm an Old Funi Dub fan boy, but I don't care. It's what I prefer haha. I just love his gentleness and cherry tone that I remember when I was a child watching Dragon Ball.

[Sayo-chan]

The on where Goku's only a hero as a byproduct of his actions.

[Doctor.]

If by "heroic" you mean Funimation's butchered Superman-esque interpretation of the character (because Goku is heroic in any kind of official media he's in, no matter who he's voiced by or who's writing the script), and if by "serious" Goku you mean the original version of the character (another label that doesn't make much sense, because in both versions Goku gets serious whenever there's a threat, you can even say that he loses more of his innocence and naivety in the Funimation dub and that makes him more serious as a result), then yes I prefer the 'original'. He's a much more flawed character this way if he's not a messianic figure, and that makes him miles more interesting, to see how his flaws affect his surroundings and the plot progression, this also allowed for a lot of character development within the series, as he gets more and more heroic in the manga, whilst he just starts as a very heroic figure in the first place in the original Funimation dub.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

If heroic you mean the Goku that is the "Hope of all Living Things that Cry out for Peace/Light in the Darknesss/Ally to Good, Nightmare to You" then I'm not at all interested in a "heroic" Goku

[Lord Beerus]

I hate "Heroic£/Superman-esque Goku so damn much. There no depth to Goku at all in that version of him that Toei and Funimation, in it's early dub, loved to portray. "Serious" Goku is much more of a flawed, unique and compelling character.

[Hero]

Eh, while the original "SuperGokuman" version of the character might not be how he's supposed to be portrayed you can't deny that's the version that many people grew up with and embraced as the Goku.

I personally like both the "heroic" and "serious" versions in their own unique ways. I do feel weird though when Goku curses. I just can't imagine the guy who thought marriage is a food saying words like shit and crap.

[Chuquita]

Flawed Gokû; the one that had to adorably inwardly debate on if he should take that offered money in Super #1; the one that leaves Kaio's house through the window in BOG, immediately falls on his face, then gets right back up unfazed and runs over to say hello anyway; the one that messes with Vegeta for fun in the Jump 08 special while conversely asking by completely pure motivations to hold hands on the way to Earth in F; the one that butchers polite grammar by accident when asked to speak like a proper adult desu.
( ´ ▽ ` )

[Doctor.]

Eh, while the original "SuperGokuman" version of the character might not be how he's supposed to be portrayed you can't deny that's the version that many people grew up with and embraced as the Goku.

That's true, but why's that relevant? Many people grew up with the real Goku and some people, like myself, didn't even grow up with the series.

[Kamiccolo9]

Eh, while the original "SuperGokuman" version of the character might not be how he's supposed to be portrayed you can't deny that's the version that many people grew up with and embraced as the Goku.

I personally like both the "heroic" and "serious" versions in their own unique ways. I do feel weird though when Goku curses. I just can't imagine the guy who thought marriage is a food saying words like shit and crap.

Nostalgia is a great and terrible force for both good and evil.

Hero!Goku sucks.

[Herms]

Now I know In the manga this is typical of him and that he swears a lot but for me, nah. It aint Goku at all, definitely not the same hero I grew up with. Whenever i hear him curse is just makes him loose all that sense of pureness.

The thing is, Goku swears in Japanese. No two ways about it. The culture around swear words in Japan isn't quite the same as in English, and there's generally no 1-to-1 correspondence between a Japanese swear word and an English one, so translating his swearing appropriately can be tricky. But still, he swears. It's definitely an aspect of his character, as created by Toriyama. Hitting the right tone when translating him can be difficult, and what feels "right" depends on the person. I don't think twice about English translations having Goku use "damn" or "hell", yet I roll my eyes at fan subs or scanslations that have him use "motherfucker", because to me that feels like they're trying to make him too "hardcore" or whatever". But someone else might find that perfectly natural.

[jjgp1112]

Toei Animation and early Funi LOVE them some Messianic hero Goku. I personally find him boring. I like when he gets serious because you know the shit is on and cool things are gonna happen, but the overtly heroic Goku flies in the face of his character and upbringing.

[Sayo-chan]

Now I know In the manga this is typical of him and that he swears a lot but for me, nah. It aint Goku at all, definitely not the same hero I grew up with. Whenever i hear him curse is just makes him loose all that sense of pureness.

The thing is, Goku swears in Japanese. No two ways about it. The culture around swear words in Japan isn't quite the same as in English, and there's generally no 1-to-1 correspondence between a Japanese swear word and an English one, so translating his swearing appropriately can be tricky. But still, he swears. It's definitely an aspect of his character, as created by Toriyama. Hitting the right tone when translating him can be difficult, and what feels "right" depends on the person. I don't think twice about English translations having Goku use "damn" or "hell", yet I roll my eyes at fan subs or scanslations that have him use "motherfucker", because to me that feels like they're trying to make him too "hardcore" or whatever". But someone else might find that perfectly natural.

So I guess that tidbit on Kanzentai is really only accounting for the harsher swear words?

And contrary to popular belief, there is no cussing at all in DragonBall, DragonBall Z, or DragonBall GT. The fansubs tend to take liberties with the episodes and add a "fuck" and a "shit" when they feel it is necessary (Although there are mild insults and taunts, not to mention the occasional flipping the bird ^_^). However, it should be noted that beyond season 3, DragonBall Z in its entirety has remained almost completely unchanged, especially with the release of FUNimation's uncut DVDs.

[FoolsGil]

It's all the same to me. Goku's actions are heroic, whether in dubs he speaks like a tool, or a douche.

[TheBlackPaladin]

It aint Goku at all, definitely not the same hero I grew up with. Whenever i hear him curse is just makes him loose all that sense of pureness. I'm sure you know where I'm coming from.

Well rest assured, you are absolutely free to prefer the "re-versioned" Goku that FUNimation put forth in their original dub. There's nothing wrong with that. At the same time, the truth of the matter is that the hero you grew up with is not Goku as the author envisioned him. It's Goku as envisioned by script adapters who, by their own admission years later, had no clue what they were doing. This changed with Kai...whether one prefers Sean Schemmel's performance or Masako Nozawa's performance in Kai is subjective, but whichever performance one likes better, they are at least playing the same character this time around, which couldn't be said for the DBZ dub.

The fact of the matter is, the "pure" Goku who never cursed is not who the character truly is. There's nothing wrong with preferring the alternative version of the character that FUNimation came up with, but understand, that's exactly what you heard growing up. For me, that kinda ruins it. The "fourth wall" is broken too much when a character is re-written that much, because it's impossible for me to take that version seriously when I know it's just a bunch of alternative dialogue written by writers who were trying to make DBZ a hit in the English-speaking world. When I watch the dub, I want to hear the dialogue thought up by the original author (or, at the very least, dialogue thought up by the original author with minimal adjustments and re-phrasing here and there when it's necessary to fit the lip movements).

Now having said all that, I don't know that I would describe the alternate to "Heroic Goku" as "Serious Goku." Rather, I would label it, "faithfully-adapted Goku." Because Goku, even when faithfully-adapted, isn't serious all the time. Sure, he can be serious, but he's also naive, a goofball, an idiot (save fighting, where he's a genius), and caring. He's still not totally selfish, even in the Japanese version. Wanting to protect his friends and family is often his greatest source of motivation and strength. Let's not forget, his first Super Saiyan transformation was triggered by the death of his best friend.

Goku as FUNimation initially portrayed him was pretty one-dimensional, always wanting to be the good and just hero, and do the right thing. Goku as envisioned by Toriyama is a more multi-dimensional and likeable character. Between that, and the fact that what FUNimation had Goku saying was not what he was originally saying, I vastly prefer how they currently portray Goku...which is to say, like Toriyama did.

[Polyphase Avatron]

While Goku's primary motivation is not being heroic (i.e. if there's a villain threatening Earth he'd rather fight him than prevent him from being a threat in the first place, as seen with Dr. Gero and the androids), I don't get when people deny that he is a hero, because he is. He does care about the people on Earth and in the universe, and does try to defend them. He is appalled when villains wantonly kill people, even people he doesn't personally know. I can name lots of supposed superheroes who are less heroic than Goku is.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I don't get when people deny that he is a hero, because he is. He does care about the people on Earth and in the universe, and does try to defend them. He is appalled when villains wantonly kill people, even people he doesn't personally know. I can name lots of supposed superheroes who are less heroic than Goku is.

Well said, I agree completely!

However, I think I get why people deny that he is hero. This is just a theory, of course, but I think, because FUNimation took his heroism to such an extreme, some fans may feel the need to deny his heroism in an effort to "course-correct" people's misinterpretation of the character (stemming from how FUNimation initially misrepresented him in the dub). In other words, they fear that if they acknowledge his heroism, it will lend validity to FUNimation's incorrect portrayal of him. So, in an effort to prevent that, they completely deny any moments of heroism that he may have.

So, while I may get that mindset, I don't agree with it. Just because Goku wasn't as heroic as FUNimation made him out to be doesn't mean he wasn't heroic.

[Codarik]

I do like FUNi's Goku and Toriyama's Goku equally. That's why I view the manga, the Toei anime and FUNi's dub as separate "entities". Now going on to what HybridSaiyan was saying about Sean Schemmel's current take on Goku, I totally agree and feel the same, Schemmel's current take makes Goku always sound like a major prick or a douchebag. Something Nozawa has never made Goku sound like, she's always made him that lovable goofball.

[Herms]

So I guess that tidbit on Kanzentai is really only accounting for the harsher swear words?

And contrary to popular belief, there is no cussing at all in DragonBall, DragonBall Z, or DragonBall GT. The fansubs tend to take liberties with the episodes and add a "fuck" and a "shit" when they feel it is necessary (Although there are mild insults and taunts, not to mention the occasional flipping the bird ^_^). However, it should be noted that beyond season 3, DragonBall Z in its entirety has remained almost completely unchanged, especially with the release of FUNimation's uncut DVDs.

I don't know who wrote that (I'll blame Hujio), but I'd definitely consider the statement that "there is no cussing at all in DragonBall, DragonBall Z, or DragonBall GT" to be completely wrong. Like you said, it really can only be true if "cussing" only refers to the harsher swear words.

On that note, there have actually been cases in Hunter x Hunter where the original chapters as they appeared in Jump used certain words which were apparently deemed inappropriate, and so were changed for the tankoubon release. That's not the sort of language that appears in DB though.

[theoriginalbilis]

Which one do you guys prefer? I haven't seen much of Kai but from what I've heard Sean Is making Goku sound really rough and serious like. Now I know In the manga this is typical of him and that he swears a lot but for me, nah. It aint Goku at all, definitely not the same hero I grew up with. Whenever i hear him curse is just makes him loose all that sense of pureness. I'm sure you know where I'm coming from. Or maybe it's just because I'm an Old Funi Dub fan boy, but I don't care. It's what I prefer haha. I just love his gentleness and cherry tone that I remember when I was a child watching Dragon Ball.

You're welcome to your opinion, but I feel that a lot of FUNi dub fans should understand that their "hero" is actually someone who is flawed, curses, kills, is unintentionally rude, doesn't give elaborate speeches, is obsessed with food and (even more obsessed) with combat, but would still stand up for his family and friends if someone starts some crap in his backyard.

The Western idea that a hero should be morally and spiritually "pure" is just that: a Western cultural/religious ideal and practice. Dragon Ball is a Japanese product; influenced by Japanese culture and norms.

Also, people who curse tend to be a lot more open, honest, and trustworthy than people concerned about being "pure", in my opinion anyway...

Early FUNi-dub Goku bores me. I didn't start really liking him until I saw more of the Japanese version and the manga. That said, just like multiple-interpretations of other comic heroes, FUNi's "Superman-Goku" is a valid interpretation, and you're free to enjoy that if you're so inclined. It's not really much different from someone preferring the 60's Adam West Batman over other imaginings of that character.

That said, I enjoy both Nozawa and Schemmel equally these days. He's really made an effort to understand the character and channel more Nozawa into his role. Having script-writers and ADR directors who actually care/put effort into their work help too...

[PolatGuy92]

I rather have *serious* Goku than *heroic* Goku because that's his true character and will always be. Heck heroic Goku is the whole reason of that Goku vs Superman nonsense debat when in reality Goku and Superman don't have any common at all except their origin. Even Akira Toriyama has stated that he didn't like the way Toei gave Goku more a heroic attitude. Goku is more a warrior type kinda character al he cares about is fighting strong opponents and wish someday that he will surpass them. He does have some heroism in his personality, but he mostly only saves the people he loves (friends and family). I think the only true hero type kinda character in the Dragon Ball universe is Gohan or was Gohan when he was the Great Saiyaman.

But yeah I grew up with the heroic Goku with his famous speech "Ally to good nightmare to you", but I rather like having characters with their true personality.