Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
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Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
I don't expect anyone to understand but for me the series ended 20 years ago and I just can't bring myself to watch the new stuff. It doesn't feel right.
Re: Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
No it's not wrong. Choose whatever you want to be canon, it's your life.
Most Dragon Ball fans are incapable of making a logically sound argument.
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Re: Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
No. It is not wrong. It's your opinion. If you don't consider the new stuff is canon that's perfectly alright.
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Re: Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
It's not wrong at all. Unlike most series canonicity with Dragon Ball is entirely up to you. Most will agree the manga is canon but anything outside of that gets debated until our faces turn blue.
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Re: Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
You mean our hair?DBZMerciter2005 wrote:It's not wrong at all. Unlike most series canonicity with Dragon Ball is entirely up to you. Most will agree the manga is canon but anything outside of that gets debated until our faces turn blue.
On a side note, it does seem that most people outside of this forum have this mentality that you're not allowed to consider GT canon and the movies plus Super absolutely have to.
Most Dragon Ball fans are incapable of making a logically sound argument.
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Re: Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
Besides debatably the manga, there's no real official Dragon Ball canon, so basically pick whatever you want.
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Re: Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
No, nothing wrong with it at all. It's just a cartoon show intended for entertainment and to try to entice you to buy some toys/video games/whatever.
It's like with the early Transformers series. Despite what the "official" position may be, I don't accept Beast Wars (as much as I happen to enjoy it) to be directly related to the 80s cartoon series, especially considering it was built upon a "mix and match" of the original cartoon and comic continuities, which are contradictory to one another. So, Beast Wars requires this amalgamation of "Generation One" while there's nothing in G1 itself which requires the Beast Wars era to be its definitive future.
With Dragon Ball Super, there is nothing in the original story which even hints at the current story being told and not even a whisper of Super Saiyan God or its variants (naturally, because they weren't conceived at the time, but I digress) so in a similar way, Dragon Ball Super needs Dragon Ball/Z whereas Dragon Ball/Z doesn't need Super. For all intents and purposes, it could be a "what if" type series and people shouldn't really worry about "canon" in order to be able to enjoy it.
So, yeah... whether you accept it as canon or even care about the concept of canon is entirely up to you.
It's like with the early Transformers series. Despite what the "official" position may be, I don't accept Beast Wars (as much as I happen to enjoy it) to be directly related to the 80s cartoon series, especially considering it was built upon a "mix and match" of the original cartoon and comic continuities, which are contradictory to one another. So, Beast Wars requires this amalgamation of "Generation One" while there's nothing in G1 itself which requires the Beast Wars era to be its definitive future.
With Dragon Ball Super, there is nothing in the original story which even hints at the current story being told and not even a whisper of Super Saiyan God or its variants (naturally, because they weren't conceived at the time, but I digress) so in a similar way, Dragon Ball Super needs Dragon Ball/Z whereas Dragon Ball/Z doesn't need Super. For all intents and purposes, it could be a "what if" type series and people shouldn't really worry about "canon" in order to be able to enjoy it.
So, yeah... whether you accept it as canon or even care about the concept of canon is entirely up to you.
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Re: Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
There isn't really an official canon at this point. You more of just make up what you want to believe. I think that most people do Dragon Ball > Dragon Ball Z > Dragon Ball Super now, but you can count anything you want. They're making Super just for the money, and can't be concerned at all with the canon. Besides that Toriyama has stated he doesn't strive for complete 100% consistency in the manga.
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Re: Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
Canon is dead.
Originally most fans accepted the official canonicity of the series to be the 42-volume manga, and everything else was secondary.
With the recent movies, and TOEI's claim Battle of Gods was part of the "official history" that perspective changed, and the new consensus was that Dragon Ball canon became anything Toriyama was heavily involved in, for instance the manga (including Jaco), plus Battle of Gods and Resurrection F.
Now with Dragon Ball Super it is a bit more complicated. There is a manga version, but its adapted from the anime. This defeats the idea that the original source is canon and the following adaptation being filler, which previously applied. Additionally there are differences in how the story is told between the manga and anime versions.
Since Battle of Gods was a film first and now the manga and anime are adapting it its hard to justify the original source as being the standard. And then there's the altered ending of the Z segment of the manga, which version should be taken as legit? DBS has already started to retcon Dragon Ball history with things like Beerus telling Frieza to destroy planet Vegeta. Nothing is clear cut anymore.
Originally most fans accepted the official canonicity of the series to be the 42-volume manga, and everything else was secondary.
With the recent movies, and TOEI's claim Battle of Gods was part of the "official history" that perspective changed, and the new consensus was that Dragon Ball canon became anything Toriyama was heavily involved in, for instance the manga (including Jaco), plus Battle of Gods and Resurrection F.
Now with Dragon Ball Super it is a bit more complicated. There is a manga version, but its adapted from the anime. This defeats the idea that the original source is canon and the following adaptation being filler, which previously applied. Additionally there are differences in how the story is told between the manga and anime versions.
Since Battle of Gods was a film first and now the manga and anime are adapting it its hard to justify the original source as being the standard. And then there's the altered ending of the Z segment of the manga, which version should be taken as legit? DBS has already started to retcon Dragon Ball history with things like Beerus telling Frieza to destroy planet Vegeta. Nothing is clear cut anymore.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula
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Re: Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
The canon in Dragon Ball can be whatever you want it to be. So, no, it's not wrong if you don't want to accept DBS/BOG/ROF as canon.
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Re: Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
Do whatever you want. It's a cartoon and comic; nothing more than that. As long as you're not belittling others' views and being confrontational; more power to you.
Just for the record, there is no "official" canon. Any one's idea of DragonBall having a canon is just that; their own idea.
Just for the record, there is no "official" canon. Any one's idea of DragonBall having a canon is just that; their own idea.
Nothing matters (in a cosmic sense.) Have a good time.
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Re: Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
There is nothing wrong with that. It is also worth noting, that so far Battle of Gods and Revival of F (especially) seem to have much more involvement from Toriyama than Super, so if anything has considered to be canon, then it should be these two movies. Super is just another GT.
But of course, all of this is arguable, as both movies were made by Toei, and for Battle of Gods the original script was even written by Yusuke Watanabe from Toei's staff. He created the original concepts of Super Saiyan God and God of Destruction, which Toriyama later changed. Revival of F still followed concepts from the Battle of Gods movie, which means that even though Toriyama was the one who created the original screenplay for Revival of F, which Toei later fixed a bit, it still followed events from the movie for which Toei's staff originally created a screenplay, meaning that it isn't actually a movie, script of which is created in the mind of Toriyama without any actual influence from Toei.
But of course, all of this is arguable, as both movies were made by Toei, and for Battle of Gods the original script was even written by Yusuke Watanabe from Toei's staff. He created the original concepts of Super Saiyan God and God of Destruction, which Toriyama later changed. Revival of F still followed concepts from the Battle of Gods movie, which means that even though Toriyama was the one who created the original screenplay for Revival of F, which Toei later fixed a bit, it still followed events from the movie for which Toei's staff originally created a screenplay, meaning that it isn't actually a movie, script of which is created in the mind of Toriyama without any actual influence from Toei.
Marco Polo wrote:He almost got Videl killed in Battle of Gods tho.Hellspawn28 wrote:Cool to see Gohan have a kill for once. He hasn't killed someone since Cell (or Broli if you want to count in General).
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Re: Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
It's not at all wrong, different fans have different opinions.
I think it personally makes the most sense (for me at least) to consider anything Toriyama views as being part of the main continuity as canon, but there's so much up in the air right now. Super is still ongoing, and will cover the same material as BoG/RoF early on anyway, so the two are mutually exclusive as it is.
I think it personally makes the most sense (for me at least) to consider anything Toriyama views as being part of the main continuity as canon, but there's so much up in the air right now. Super is still ongoing, and will cover the same material as BoG/RoF early on anyway, so the two are mutually exclusive as it is.
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Re: Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
Well, all Dragon Ball productions were did basically for money.SpiritBombTriumphant wrote:There isn't really an official canon at this point. You more of just make up what you want to believe. I think that most people do Dragon Ball > Dragon Ball Z > Dragon Ball Super now, but you can count anything you want. They're making Super just for the money, and can't be concerned at all with the canon. Besides that Toriyama has stated he doesn't strive for complete 100% consistency in the manga.
Re: Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
Nope. You can enjoy them and consider them non-canon at the same time. Many fans consider BoG and RoF to be their own canon. I do the same, while viewing Super as a reversed case of The Path To Power. What's canon and what's not is for you to decide, especially at this point.
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Re: Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
I wouldn't call Super another GT, since the BoG & FnF arcs are adaptations of the movies he wrote, and the orginal draft scripts of the Universe 6 arc will be written by him.Mystic Tien wrote:There is nothing wrong with that. It is also worth noting, that so far Battle of Gods and Revival of F (especially) seem to have much more involvement from Toriyama than Super, so if anything has considered to be canon, then it should be these two movies. Super is just another GT.
The Super BoG & FnF arcs are apparently going to be to the movies what the DB/Z anime is to the manga, while the U6 arc of Super would be comparable to the movies & manga.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
Okay, then I'll tell it Dragon Ball Z.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:I wouldn't call Super another GT, since the BoG & FnF arcs are adaptations of the movies he wrote, and the orginal draft scripts of the Universe 6 arc will be written by him.Mystic Tenshinhan wrote:There is nothing wrong with that. It is also worth noting, that so far Battle of Gods and Revival of F (especially) seem to have much more involvement from Toriyama than Super, so if anything has considered to be canon, then it should be these two movies. Super is just another GT.
The Super BoG & FnF arcs are apparently going to be to the movies what the DB/Z anime is to the manga, while the U6 arc of Super would be comparable to the movies & manga.
Yes, I also think so.
Marco Polo wrote:He almost got Videl killed in Battle of Gods tho.Hellspawn28 wrote:Cool to see Gohan have a kill for once. He hasn't killed someone since Cell (or Broli if you want to count in General).
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Re: Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
No, Dragon Ball ended with 42 tankōbon volumes (519 chapters) and Toriyama-sensei in his youth.
Now he's just a forgetful old man who's likely forgotten what made his creation great.
Now he's just a forgetful old man who's likely forgotten what made his creation great.
Last edited by DBZAOTA482 on Thu Aug 13, 2015 6:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
fadeddreams5 wrote:Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
jjgp1112 wrote: ↑Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.
I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.
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Re: Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
Toriyama was forgetful when he was writing and drawing the manga originally. And some people think Dragon Ball lost in charm in the second half of the story when it became less adventure oriented and took itself too seriously. So it could be argued he forget what made his manga so great in first place while he was still writing the manga.DBZAOTA482 wrote:Now he's a forgetful old man who's likely forgotten what made his creation great.
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Re: Is it wrong to not accept DBS/BoG/RoF etc as canon?
Haha, yeah, I love it when that argument comes up. Dragon Ball's definitely never been an artistic passion project, even for Toriyama. It's something he wrote because he was being paid to deliver an entertaining serial to Japanese school children (and presumably because he enjoyed it himself). That doesn't invalidate it, but it's okay to acknowledge how unpretentious it all is.SaintEvolution wrote:Well, all Dragon Ball productions were did basically for money.
Anyway, canon is up to you. The Super version of events is the one more likely to be referred to moving forward, though, for whatever that's worth.