What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

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What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

Post by Singh is King » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:40 pm

I was never a big fan of his version of Vegeta, but I do think Drummond did capture the villainous side of Vegeta pretty well and sounded pretty smug while doing it.

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Re: What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:54 pm

Well, I cut the Ocean cast a lot of slack. The direction and scripts they were given were not particularly compatible with the goal of producing a faithful English dub.

Having said that, I loved Drummond's Vegeta! Any shortcoming he had as far as replicating Ryo Horikawa's performance, I'm willing to blame on the directors and writers. A Kanzenshuuer who knows Drummond in real life said that he was instructed to play Vegeta like an "evil psychopath." That's not the best way to sum up Vegeta's character, but considering that's the direction he was given, I think he did a wonderful job with it.

His portrayal was one of a very smug, arrogant man. A banned Kanzenshuuer named Penguintruth once gave a description that I thought fit perfectly: every bit of dialogue that Drummond's Vegeta had, it sounded like Vegeta was in love with himself and the sound of his own voice. And on top of that...Drummond did a masterful job of conveying Vegeta's anger. If someone were to ask me to point to just one scene that sums up what was good about an actor's portrayal, then for Drummond's Vegeta, I would point to this moment where he found out that Gohan had taken the Namekian Dragon Ball that Vegeta hid in the lake. "MY WRATH" indeed! I still remember watching that as an 11-year-old and thinking, "Oh man, Gohan is screwed."

And just in case others aren't convinced, one thing I've always found very amusing over the years is that, in order to get to that video I just posted, all one has to do is go to the YouTube search bar and type "my wrath." No mention of DBZ, Vegeta, Ocean, or Drummond...just "my wrath." And that's the very first video that shows up in the search. That's how much of an impression Drummond's performance made.

Alas, one of the things I was most looking forward to in the seemingly eternally elusive Ocean dub of Kai was the chance to hear Drummond again. Especially in that batch of episodes from "Season 3," from DBZ where no Westwood dub alternative is available.
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Re: What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Sep 09, 2015 9:58 pm

I think he did quite well.
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Re: What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

Post by Man-Child » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:35 pm

He was the most lovably loathsome Vegeta we've ever had. So damn cocky, but with a genuine intimidation to his voice that almost made him seem scary. It's a shame we never got to see Drummond work on a more accurate version of Dragon Ball, but I appreciate the effort he put into the past dubs anyway.
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Re: What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

Post by Chuquita » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:40 pm

"You won't escape...MY WRATH!!!"
Drummond!Vegeta is so nostalgic. :3

He would've performed an amazingly creepy version of BOG's The Bingo Song, the way his Vegeta voice sounds. :3
*Pictures Drummond!Vegeta creepily singing "Fun Time BiiiinGO".* Like out of a horror movie, that'd sound. XD

I enjoyed Drummond's run during Funi's Ocean dub. He fit smaller and eviller (condensed evil; just add milk?) Vegeta. I'm so used to placing his voice with that era's art style that it's difficult for me to picture him with the more oldschool!Yamamuro designs from the Cell and Buu arcs, even though I know he did dub those (for the UK's dub? For Australia's? I feel it was for UK's.)
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Re: What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

Post by Ree » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:44 pm

He did the best one
first of all he sounds actually evil and chilling and confident
Then he can be both funny and scary depending on the situation
Its a voice I don't expect from a Prince of all Saiyans but it fits so perfect


(See my list in the C. Sabat new voice thread to know what i think a PoaS should sound like)
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Re: What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Wed Sep 09, 2015 10:53 pm

I'm actually not a fan. Nothing against the actor, but I don't think his voice fits the character. He does some pretty serious emoting that results in some memorable scenes, but, overall, his voice is too....."snakelike," I guess, for me to consider an "accurate" Vegeta, if that makes any sense, and I don't think he pulls off the inner monologues of the Buu Arc well at all. He just sounds like a cackling villain to me, and he's not that character at that point.
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Re: What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

Post by dario03 » Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:04 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:I'm actually not a fan. Nothing against the actor, but I don't think his voice fits the character. He does some pretty serious emoting that results in some memorable scenes, but, overall, his voice is too....."snakelike," I guess, for me to consider an "accurate" Vegeta, if that makes any sense, and I don't think he pulls off the inner monologues of the Buu Arc well at all. He just sounds like a cackling villain to me, and he's not that character at that point.
I kind of agree with this. I like him alright in the early parts and his yelling is awesome but he just doesn't seem to fit in the later parts. But I really like those yelling parts. He is the "IT'S OVER 9000!!!", "YOU WON'T ESCAPE, MY WRAITH!!!", and when he powers up against Recoome.

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Re: What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

Post by ShinGaijin » Thu Sep 10, 2015 12:05 am

Haaaaaaah, Mr.Drummond's Vegeta :thumbup: his voice fits so well IMO...but yes, as the others said before, we never got a "modern" performance from him, what a shame. : PRAYING FOR KAI OCEAN DUB :

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Re: What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

Post by Sayo-chan » Thu Sep 10, 2015 4:21 am

I'd take Drummond over Sabat any day. I may have grown up with Drummond playing Vegeta, but that doesn't make my opinion's shortsighted or blinded by nostalgia. People (see: YouTube) seem to have this misconception that liking a portrayal of a certain character gives them merit in saying you're a fan of a dub as a whole. This couldn't be further from the truth. I genuinely feel that Drummond fits the role better, despite the horrid direction that wreaks of an 80s Saturday morning cartoon at times.

Let's take a look at the Vegeta's Wrath scene, what's often cited as Drummond's best performance in Z. Sabat's early Z portrayal is awful in every sense of the word. Static, dull, one-dimensional, etc. With Kai, we see two different sounding clips. In the Nicktoons version he sounds far more disgruntled, as if he's spitting venom. Why? I'd imagine it's the echo filter they added. In the uncut version it sounds far more refined and put together than early Z, but a bit forced. When he says "dammit", it almost sounds like he's going to hack up a lung during the second syllable. Consequences of not quitting smoking sooner? Maybe. With Drummond, it's a crescendo into rage. Now onto the wrath part. Early Z sounds... like he's out of breath, as if he's struggling to pull the voice out. Maybe that's somewhat appropriate, seeing that Vegeta is blinded by rage, but I doubt it was forthcoming, seeing that it doesn't seem as though it's trying to sound that way; it just does. When he says "you're dead", it really comes off as though he didn't have enough air in his lungs to pull it off. The Nicktoons Kai version, while a lot better, still falls short. When he says "filthy double-crossers", going by voice alone, I don't really get the impression that Vegeta is that angry; it sounds tame compared to Drummond. Also, the echo filter on Sabat in Kai sounds a lot heavier than it does on Drummond in Ocean. The last bit in the Nicktoons one does sound a lot better than everything else Sabat did in that scene, even if it is solely the product of the filter, which I can't really tell. Last, the uncut version sounds mundane, like a big diminuendo. Might I also mention Horikawa's performance here is lackluster by comparison, especially in Kai?

I often hear the consensus that Drummond works for early Vegeta whereas Sabat works for later Vegeta. I think that's absurd. A subtle change of heart doesn't somehow alter the physiology of your vocals and never is it implied it should in DBZ. I mean yeah, Goku sounds androgynous because of Nozawa, yet he still has a large Adam's apple, but I still don't see that as justification. Up until the middle of the Boo saga, Vegeta's still considered evil scum. He doesn't hesitate to murder thousands of strangers for the sake of his own personal benefit. That's terrorism and it's not something many people would outright forgive, if ever. I'm not the only one that feels this way either, seeing that Vegeta didn't keep his body. One might argue there's a subjective morality because of manually being judged in the afterlife, or an objective morality due to the religious connotations. Regardless, no matter how you fit the glove, Vegeta's still an evil shitbag until the laws of nature govern he isn't, which is when he's wished back towards the end of the arc.

There really isn't that much of a difference in Vegeta's personality from Freeza to Boo. What did he want during the Saiyan saga? Immortality. Why? To crush his enemies, see them driven before them and hear the lamentations of their women. Who's his enemy? Freeza and his men. Who else is there that's a threat to him? Presumably nobody. Goku was the first person to poise a significant threat barring those he was already cautious around. Reluctantly, he joins the A-Team because of a common threat and gets betrayed. During this time, his goal is still to become immortal and destroy those that oppose him. He fails, dies and gets resurrected. Then he assimilates into Goku's dopey friend circle and uses them for his own benefit. He doesn't outright slaughter them, but it doesn't matter, because the rules of the game have changed. Bulma nearly dies, but is he concerned? Hell no. He puts them all in jeopardy with Cell. Does he care? No. Trunks, his son, dies, does he care? Not really, he's more concerned about Cell violating his pride. Boo saga time. He allows himself to be mind controlled and slaughters civilians. Saiyan saga Vegeta is in full swing. Vegeta sees Boo's terrifying power, and because of that, atones for his petty psychotic nature. He atones for his wrongdoings because he realizes the futility of his efforts, not because he's suddenly super good and had an epiphany about the moral implications of his actions, no. That's also my guess why he was sent to Hell. Unless the argument is for the voice change were to occur after his separation from Goku inside Boo's body, it's completely unwarranted nonsense, and even then it's still unwarranted.

And while we're comparing voices, how about Sabat's Drummond impression at 7:20?
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Re: What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

Post by ABED » Thu Sep 10, 2015 5:05 am

I often hear the consensus that Drummond works for early Vegeta whereas Sabat works for later Vegeta. I think that's absurd. A subtle change of heart doesn't somehow alter the physiology of your vocals and never is it implied it should in DBZ.
No one ever claimed that it does. Drummond's voice works best for the more stereotypically evil Vegeta, not the more conflicted Vegeta.
During this time, his goal is still to become immortal and destroy those that oppose him
It's never stated outright, but he doesn't seem driven to that end. He just wants to be better than Goku. By the end of the Cell arc, after Goku dies and Cell's been defeated, he doesn't even want to be better than Gohan, he has no desire to fight again. What works about Horikawa and Sabat's performances is they play up the arrogance, not the evil.

I don't think many will disagree with you that Drummond is a very talented actor with a tremendous amount of energy in his performance or even that Sabat's early work was awful. I don't even think Sabat would disagree. However, he kept improving over the years. Even his Vegeta by the end of the Buu arc was vastly different from his Drummond impression. And now his performance is natural and nuanced.
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Re: What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

Post by Sayo-chan » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:38 am

ABED wrote:No one ever claimed that it does. Drummond's voice works best for the more stereotypically evil Vegeta, not the more conflicted Vegeta.
This is a flat out lie. This is a popular claim among fans. People say it in different ways all the time. Vegeta's hardly more conflicted than he was on Namek, which doesn't warrant vocal surgery.
ABED wrote:It's never stated outright, but he doesn't seem driven to that end. He just wants to be better than Goku. By the end of the Cell arc, after Goku dies and Cell's been defeated, he doesn't even want to be better than Gohan, he has no desire to fight again. What works about Horikawa and Sabat's performances is they play up the arrogance, not the evil.
Uh... No? Vegeta's goal on Namek is immortality. That's why in the scene I'm referring to he tries to coerce it out of Gohan and Krillin before Freeza arrives. Vegeta's still evil by the end of Cell. I covered this in my post. You must have a very liberal definition of evil if otherwise.
ABED wrote:I don't think many will disagree with you that Drummond is a very talented actor with a tremendous amount of energy in his performance or even that Sabat's early work was awful. I don't even think Sabat would disagree. However, he kept improving over the years. Even his Vegeta by the end of the Buu arc was vastly different from his Drummond impression. And now his performance is natural and nuanced.
Nuanced, improved, sure. I said all those things. Natural? Not in the slightest.
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Re: What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

Post by ABED » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:51 am

A lie means I knowingly said something false. That link doesn't say Vegeta should have a different voice in two different arcs, and that was never the argument.
Vegeta's hardly more conflicted than he was on Namek
IN the Buu arc he definitely is.
Natural? Not in the slightest.
Yes, his delivery doesn't sound forced. It's clearly not a voice that sounds real, but within a certain context, it sounds natural.
Uh... No? Vegeta's goal on Namek is immortality. That's why in the scene I'm referring to he tries to coerce it out of Gohan and Krillin before Freeza arrives. Vegeta's still evil by the end of Cell. I covered this in my post. You must have a very liberal definition of evil if otherwise.
In that sentence, I thought you were specifically referring to the Cell arc when you said he joined forces with Goku and his friends, my bad. And Vegeta is definitely evil, doesn't mean I think his voice should play up that aspect.
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Re: What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

Post by Sayo-chan » Thu Sep 10, 2015 6:56 am

ABED wrote:A lie means I knowingly said something false. That link doesn't say Vegeta should have a different voice in two different arcs, and that was never the argument.
A lie can simply be defined as a falsehood, which your statement is. The link directly echoes what I stated, that many people believe Drummond works for early Vegeta and Sabat works for later Vegeta, which is the argument. It's taken me around a minute to go to random Ocean videos and find these types of comments. They all say the same thing in different ways.
ABED wrote:IN the Buu arc he definitely is.
Yes, by the time he atones, which I covered. Did you read my post? This doesn't somehow warrant a voice change so much as it does a change in direction.
ABED wrote: Yes, his delivery doesn't sound forced. It's clearly not a voice that sounds real, but within a certain context, it sounds natural. Doesn't mean I think his voice should play up that aspect.
His delivery doesn't consistently sound forced, but there's plenty of times it does, such as the video I linked earlier. And what context is that it sounds natural? Because the only one I can think of is a recovering chain smoker.

Now, you may think that, but how does that relate to me or a vocal change? Direction is everything here.
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Re: What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

Post by ABED » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:10 am

Sayo-chan wrote:
ABED wrote:A lie means I knowingly said something false. That link doesn't say Vegeta should have a different voice in two different arcs, and that was never the argument.
A lie can simply be defined as a falsehood, which your statement is. The link directly echoes what I stated, that many people believe Drummond works for early Vegeta and Sabat works for later Vegeta, which is the argument.
ABED wrote:IN the Buu arc he definitely is.
Yes, by the time he atones, which I covered. Did you read my post? This doesn't somehow warrant a voice change so much as it does a change in direction.
ABED wrote: Yes, his delivery doesn't sound forced. It's clearly not a voice that sounds real, but within a certain context, it sounds natural. Doesn't mean I think his voice should play up that aspect.
His delivery doesn't consistently sound forced, but there's plenty of times it does, such as the video I linked earlier. And what context is that it sounds natural? Because the only one I can think of is a recovering chain smoker.

Now, you may think that, but how does that relate to me or a vocal change? Direction is everything here.
That's a bad definition because it lumps together people who knowingly false statements with someone who says something they believe to be true, but turns out to be wrong. That link doesn't say "they should use two voices for different time periods.

Vegeta has already changed before he atones. I covered that in my post, Vegeta was in a constant process of change, even if subtle.

In the video you linked to, which version of the scene are you talking about? Sabat in Kai or the remastered version?
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Re: What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

Post by Sayo-chan » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:15 am

ABED wrote:That's a bad definition because it lumps together people who knowingly false statements with someone who says something they believe to be true, but turns out to be wrong. That link doesn't say "they should use two voices for different time periods.
You can call it a "bad" definition, but I don't see it that way. A definition's a definition, and the dictionary takes priority over people's opinions. You're harping on trivial semantics when I've clarified twice now they're said differently to mean the exact same thing. The images I've provided, especially this one, emphasize that point; it's the same sentiment. This has taken me a total of a minute to gather. This is a very common opinion.
ABED wrote:Vegeta has already changed before he atones. I covered that in my post, Vegeta was in a constant process of change, even if subtle.
As I stated, he barely changed, which does not warrant a completely new voice. I actually used the word subtle in my original post. It's not significant. His goals change, big deal. It's monotonous character development, a trope of this franchise. I maintain the position Vegeta's still the same piece of shit until the laws of nature governed otherwise towards the end.
ABED wrote:In the video you linked to, which version of the scene are you talking about? Sabat in Kai or the remastered version?
Read my original post, I covered everything in detail:
ABED wrote:Sabat's early Z portrayal is awful in every sense of the word. Static, dull, one-dimensional, etc. With Kai, we see two different sounding clips. In the Nicktoons version he sounds far more disgruntled, as if he's spitting venom. Why? I'd imagine it's the echo filter they added. In the uncut version it sounds far more refined and put together than early Z, but a bit forced. When he says "dammit", it almost sounds like he's going to hack up a lung during the second syllable. Consequences of not quitting smoking sooner? Maybe. With Drummond, it's a crescendo into rage. Now onto the wrath part. Early Z sounds... like he's out of breath, as if he's struggling to pull the voice out. Maybe that's somewhat appropriate, seeing that Vegeta is blinded by rage, but I doubt it was forthcoming, seeing that it doesn't seem as though it's trying to sound that way; it just does. When he says "you're dead", it really comes off as though he didn't have enough air in his lungs to pull it off. The Nicktoons Kai version, while a lot better, still falls short. When he says "filthy double-crossers", going by voice alone, I don't really get the impression that Vegeta is that angry; it sounds tame compared to Drummond. Also, the echo filter on Sabat in Kai sounds a lot heavier than it does on Drummond in Ocean. The last bit in the Nicktoons one does sound a lot better than everything else Sabat did in that scene, even if it is solely the product of the filter, which I can't really tell. Last, the uncut version sounds mundane, like a big diminuendo. Might I also mention Horikawa's performance here is lackluster by comparison, especially in Kai?
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Re: What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

Post by ABED » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:26 am

As I stated, he barely changed, which does not warrant a completely new voice. I actually used the word subtle in my original post. It's not significant. His goals change, big deal. It's monotonous character development, a trope of this franchise.
Goals changing is a huge deal, as is him giving up fighting after Goku dies. When he gestures to Trunks "goodbye" that's a huge moment from Vegeta who isn't known for displays of affection and says a whole lot more than if he had hugged him at that moment as it feels real for who he is at that moment, it doesn't feel contrived. I'm not claiming he's good, just not world conqueringly evil.

Drummond is phenominal at screaming, but that's not all there is to acting, and I don't agree with your assessment about Sabat's scream. It doesn't have the over the top (in a good way) scream, but it's very good. I believe that he's severely pissed off. By your own admission, Horikawa's yell is lackluster, but I would never argue from that one clip that you should judge an entire performance. It's one scream.
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A dictionary, not THE dictionary.

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As I stated, he barely changed, which does not warrant a completely new voice
Are you saying people have claimed Drummond should voice early Vegeta and Sabat should voice him in the later parts of the series? I've never heard that argument.
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Re: What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

Post by Ajay » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:30 am

ABED wrote: Are you saying people have claimed Drummond should voice early Vegeta and Sabat should voice him in the later parts of the series? I've never heard that argument.
People say that a lot as an extension of the mentality that Drummond doesn't work for Vegeta later in the series.

I don't agree with it, but it's a very common comment.
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Re: What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

Post by ABED » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:35 am

Ajay wrote:
ABED wrote: Are you saying people have claimed Drummond should voice early Vegeta and Sabat should voice him in the later parts of the series? I've never heard that argument.
People say that a lot as an extension of the mentality that Drummond doesn't work for Vegeta later in the series.

I don't agree with it, but it's a very common comment.
I've honestly never seen that argument made, not once. It's definitely not uncommon to find people who prefer the different actors at two different points, but I've never heard someone say they should switch voices in the same series.
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Re: What do you guys think of Brian Drummond's Vegeta?

Post by Sayo-chan » Thu Sep 10, 2015 7:40 am

ABED wrote: Goals changing is a huge deal
Alone they do not. That's not how people work, that's not how a good narrative works. Vegeta changed goals on Namek numerous times to get what he wanted. He changed his ultimate goal perhaps twice on Namek. Still the same character, still the same murderous psychopath.
ABED wrote:as is him giving up fighting after Goku dies. When he gestures to Trunks "goodbye" that's a huge moment from Vegeta who isn't known for displays of affection and says a whole lot more than if he had hugged him at that moment as it feels real for who he is at that moment, it doesn't feel contrived. I'm not claiming he's good, just not world conqueringly evil.
Vegeta didn't give up fighting. If he did, why would he train constantly for seven years? Why would he fight after the Cell Games? Maybe it's a big moment for some people, but in the grand scheme of it all it really isn't. He just slaughtered thousands of people arbitrarily. But he hugged his son, so that means he's changed. The afterlife didn't view this as significant, most people wouldn't view this as significant concerning a real person and neither do I. I'm not going to lengthen my suspension of disbelief to accommodate for a character that barely changes. I would say slaughtering thousands of people is "conqueringly evil". He didn't care about them until the final battle. That's when the moral ramifications seep in.
ABED wrote:Drummond is phenominal at screaming, but that's not all there is to acting, and I don't agree with your assessment about Sabat's scream. It doesn't have the over the top (in a good way) scream, but it's very good. I believe that he's severely pissed off. By your own admission, Horikawa's yell is lackluster, but I would never argue from that one clip that you should judge an entire performance. It's one scream.
I didn't claim, at any point, that screaming was all there was to acting. It just so happens it's intricate to this series so it's a big deal. The animation and art here are over the top, so I see no reason not to expect an absolutely pissed Vegeta. I also never claimed to judge an "entire performance" off one scene. Also one scene, not scream (technically not the entire thing, just the most dialogue intense portion of it). Horikawa overall does a good job, but he's not at all perfect. He sounds bored half the time in Kai, kind of how Drummond often sounds bored or lackluster in the Boo saga and GT.
ABED wrote:A dictionary, not THE dictionary.
Trivial semantics. This definition is found in countless dictionaries. It doesn't matter if I specify.
ABED wrote:Here's another definition from A dictionary: 1. an intentionally false statement.
That's great and all, but that's not the definition I'm using. So why are you bringing this up? I can bring up irrelevant definitions as well if you'd like, but why?
ABED wrote:Are you saying people have claimed Drummond should voice early Vegeta and Sabat should voice him in the later parts of the series? I've never heard that argument.
No, and I've stated the exact same thing three times, going on four now:
I often hear the consensus that Drummond works for early Vegeta whereas Sabat works for later Vegeta
What you're saying however, is also something commonly tossed around. Should is the keyword here. Typically the same people that say that tend to prefer Sabat across the board, but this claim is also made by fans of both dubs, by which your question undoubtedly applies.

All these edits for formatting I should've gotten right the first time. .-.
Last edited by Sayo-chan on Thu Sep 10, 2015 8:02 am, edited 8 times in total.
Most Dragon Ball fans are incapable of making a logically sound argument.

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