Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

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Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

Post by precita » Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:17 pm

Has there ever been a character who became as completely pointless as Chaozu did so soon after his debut? His big moment is fighting against Krillin in the tournament where he loses, and then after that he had no relevance ever again. Toriyama even kept trying to put him out of the way.

King Piccolo immediately kills Chaozu after the dragon is summoned, so Chaozu is gone for the entire King Piccolo arc. Then in the final tournament, Chaozu doesn't even make it past the preliminaries because Mercenary Tao knocks him out "off-screen." So then Chaozu isn't even around to watch Goku or others in the tournament or fight Piccolo.

Then we have the Saiyan saga who once again besides training, he blows himself up against Nappa. Then he's on King Kai's planet where he does nothing of relevance. During the Cell saga he literally does nothing and doesn't even show up at the Cell games when even Yamcha and Tien do. I feel like if he wasn't there just to give Tien a friend he should have been forgotten about after the tournament.

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Re: Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:23 pm

He's there for Tien's characterization, and Tien sure as hell ain't pointless.... at least right after his debut.

Also, Kaioshin comes to mind... even moreso since he became irrelevant immediately after he was introduced.
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Re: Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

Post by precita » Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:24 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:He's there for Tenshinhan's characterization, and Tenshinhan sure as hell ain't pointless.... at least right after his debut.

Also, Kaioshin comes to mind... even moreso since he became irrelevant immediately after he was introduced.
Supreme Kai is at least a world building character. He basically has King Kai's role during the Freeza saga except on a larger scale with Buu and Beerus. You don't expect him to do much more than that.

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Re: Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

Post by Soppa Saia People » Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:32 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:He's there for Tenshinhan's characterization, and Tenshinhan sure as hell ain't pointless.... at least right after his debut.

Also, Kaioshin comes to mind... even moreso since he became irrelevant immediately after he was introduced.
At least Kaioshin was funny unlike Chaozu who is just there.
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Re: Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

Post by Hellspawn28 » Sat Oct 17, 2015 2:35 pm

Well his death in the Saiyan saga had emotional impact to it since Tien knew that his best friend could not be wish back since he was already brought back life and his attack failed in the end. No one knew about the Dragon Balls on Namek at the time.
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Re: Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

Post by MCDaveG » Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:05 pm

Well, I had this horrible comment some time ago as being a weird midget *can't say it here no more*
but I do enjoy these extra characters like Lunch, it makes the story more live and colourful.

Not much of a fan of the later holy saiyan elite, which makes all characters except them useless.
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Re: Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

Post by FoolsGil » Sat Oct 17, 2015 3:51 pm

He was a waste of potential. Brought in to be a foil to Krillin, gave him some cool powers, and had no idea what to do with him after- it was Puar and Oolong all over again. Hindsight is 20/20, maybe Toriyama should have made him a random fighter with no ties to the Crane School. Or perhaps make him evil like Master Shen so they both would have been blasted by Master Roshi. But if in the end this was his fate, he should not have been created.
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Re: Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

Post by precita » Sat Oct 17, 2015 4:22 pm

The thing is Chaozu also lost his personality after the tournament. Remember when Chaozu was making fun of Krillin calling him a midgit, showing that he had one strand of hair on his head, and so forth? Then he has no personality afterward.

At least Krillin, Yamcha and Yajirobe managed to remain entertaining even when they were becoming less relevant.

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Re: Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

Post by nickzambuto » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:27 pm

Don't call Chiaotzu pointless. He had a very vital role in making King Piccolo look cool.

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Re: Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

Post by precita » Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:44 pm

I like what they did with Yajirobe better. He had his role in the King Piccolo arc, tried to fight in the tournament, and then helped take down Vegeta during the Saiyan arc.

And then he more or less "retired" and lounged around aside from whenever anyone needed a senzu bean. Yajirobe had a respectable exit from being a major character, Chaozu just became pointless.

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Re: Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

Post by Puto » Sun Oct 18, 2015 6:30 am

Trivia: As far as I can tell, Jiaozi never won a single on-screen battle in the entirety of the manga.
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Re: Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

Post by B » Sun Oct 18, 2015 11:54 am

precita wrote:I like what they did with Yajirobe better. He had his role in the King Piccolo arc, tried to fight in the tournament, and then helped take down Vegeta during the Saiyan arc.

And then he more or less "retired" and lounged around aside from whenever anyone needed a senzu bean. Yajirobe had a respectable exit from being a major character, Chaozu just became pointless.
I completely disagree with this. Chaozu and Tenshinhan kind of sort of share the same character arc; it's not as dramatic as Ten's, but he realizes that the Crane Hermit's a bad guy and aligns himself with the reformed Ten. And of course, he is killed in the next arc, adding to the tragedy, even if it's not reinforcing his own character. He's a tool in the story being told, and he fills that role satisfactorily. Not everyone is a main character.

Yajirobe, I feel, got shortchanged. He's introduced with the same "weight" and similar importance as other major characters before him(Kuririn, Yamcha, Ten), but sits out a lot of the next two arcs he's featured in, and then just vanishes. Yeah, it's in character for him to avoid combat, but it just feels like what small roles he plays in the 23rd tournament and the Saiyan arc could've been filled by someone who's "profile" or "status" was lesser. What I'm trying to say is, based off his role in the Daimao arc, he should've been more important for a longer time. I don't like to get into the "disrepect" arguments people have about certain characters(Chichi, or any of the women), but Yajirobe always seemed like an outlier to me. He's arguably tougher than Goku in his first appearance; he could have gone to Namek or something*. He's "retired" far too soon after he first arrives on the scene for me.

*For whatever inexplicable reason in Movie 6, Kame Sennin, Yajirobe, and Oolong tag along for New Namek, despite the fact they know they're going there to fight. Granted, they had no idea it was Coola or how strong the enemy would be, but if they're enslaving Namekians, you'd think they could put two and two together that they might not be much help. Regardless, they are amusing in that movie so maybe they should have gone to Namek instead of Bulma(or addition to; was she really needed beyond fixing up Katatz's ship? I guess she can read the Dragon Radar the best, but if Goku had no problem with it in the Red Ribbon arc, you'd think Kuririn and Gohan could figure it out).
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Re: Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

Post by TheAmericanDream » Sun Nov 08, 2015 5:20 pm

I like what they did with Chaozu in DB movie 3, even if its not really the same timeline/version of our characters. The idea of Tenshinhan being duty bound to protect Chaozu while combating his assassin aspirations was interesting, though having recently played DBZ Attack of the Saiyans, I will say I dislike the idea of Chaozu just being relegated to damsel in distress for Tenshinhan to rescue. I feel that Toei seems to like throwing minor characters a bone from time to time, its a shame we didn't get more filler focusing on Chaozu or Yajirobe for that matter.

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Re: Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

Post by precita » Sun Nov 08, 2015 6:25 pm

The reason Chiaotzu has no point is he can't exist as a character on his own. Without Tien would anyone justify Chaiotzu's existence? Like other characters such as Yamcha and Yajirobe can exist as their own characters without being connected to anyone.

Chaiotzu literally has no reason to exist if it weren't for Tien.

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Re: Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

Post by Lord Beerus » Sun Nov 08, 2015 7:53 pm

Puto wrote:Trivia: As far as I can tell, Jiaozi never won a single on-screen battle in the entirety of the manga.
Your right. He never won a single battle in the manga. Unless you count his off-screen victory in the preliminaries of the 22nd WMAT.

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Re: Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

Post by caejones » Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:01 pm

One might wonder what would have happened had the movies continued in the same continuity as the first 3 DB movies. Would movie 4 have included Piccolo killing Chaozu to take control over the Mifan empire, and that summing up Ten's motivation during the whole thing?

Compare Chaozu to Puar or Oolong. Particularly Puar. Remember that, before Chaozu replaced them, they were pretty much part of the core cast.
Oolong kinda lost his relevance after making his wish to Shenlong. He got so little to do, even commentary, that you can assume most of his appearances in the anime after that first wish are filler. Considering that he has more personality than Chaozu, and that he hangs around everyone else, that's kinda frustrating.
On the one hand, Puar got to do a couple things (carry Yamcha to the hospital, tag-team with Upa in the fight with Draculaman). On the other hand... Puar's personality consists of... hanging out with Yamcha? And asking why Yamcha doesn't do X at any given point in the first arc, making him come across as kinda bloodthursty? Meanwhile, Oolong's personality lands him speaking cameos in the Z movies. He met Cooler, for Dende's sake. (Was Puar there? Puar might have been there. I don't remember because Puar is like Chaozu, except has the dignity not to pretend to be one of the Fighters.)

Really, Chaozu is the team Wizard. But Toriyama doesn't want to write a team Wizard. It kinda feels like he was there for the Hopping Vampire who is easily distracted by math problems gag, but then he kinda wound up attached to Tenshinhan for character reasons, and, unlike every other comparable character in the series up to that point, for some reason he couldn't bring himself to just drop Chaozu until Gero's creations started to run a muck. I almost wonder if Chaozu wasn't at the fight with Nappa specifically to enhance Tenshinhan's death scene.
Otherwise, Chaozu would be the Namu / Giran / Bacterian / Ran Fuan of the 22nd tournament. They, too, were unceremoniously murdered in the Piccolo Daimao arc, but none of them took this as a sign that they should do it again 10 years later. (*Gets distracted imagining Namu Heavenly Cross Striking Nappa and a Saibaman in the throats.*)

Movie3 Chaozu doesn't even pretend to be a front line fighter, and I could totally see that Chaozu remaining a mainstay in that continuity. ... Wait, why haven't I read/sought out/written fanfiction to continue that continuity? ... I wonder if there's enough Dragon Box footage to edit together a hackish fanmovie? Hmm...

But, yeah, I thin it's telling that, in spite of Resurrection F deliberately evoking an Old School feel with bald Kuririn and KameSen'nin and bringing Bulma to the fight, we don't see Chaozu once. Granted, we don't see Yamcha, either, which is kinda upsetting but not that surprising.
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Re: Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Sun Nov 08, 2015 9:40 pm

Chaozu actually kind of bewilders me in a way. He's almost a non-character, and I swear the only reason people crack less jokes about him than they do Yamcha or Kuririn is because he doesn't even provide a lot of material to poke fun at. He fails to fail even!

I wish that hadn't been the case though. There's definitely gotta be ways Toriyama could have better utilized the guy, and as pointed out, him having kept his personality as a bit of a playful jerk who isn't very book smart would have helped out a lot in that regard. Instead though, we're just left with him shouting 'Ten!' a lot, sadly.
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Re: Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

Post by precita » Sun Nov 08, 2015 10:55 pm

I think its funny he sits out the entire King Piccolo arc, as well as the final tournament arc. King Piccolo kills him, Mercenary Tao knocks him out in the pre-lims off-screen even.

Even before Dragonball ended Toriyama already kept trying to "get rid of him" from the story in some way or another. Then in DBZ he's largely just another quick bomb to Nappa and then on King Kai's he does absolutely nothing.

I do find it funny he came with Tien when Cyborg Freeza came to Earth. I mean what would he have done had Trunks not shown up?

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Re: Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

Post by Battousai » Mon Nov 09, 2015 6:58 am

precita wrote:I think its funny he sits out the entire King Piccolo arc, as well as the final tournament arc. King Piccolo kills him, Mercenary Tao knocks him out in the pre-lims off-screen even.

Even before Dragonball ended Toriyama already kept trying to "get rid of him" from the story in some way or another. Then in DBZ he's largely just another quick bomb to Nappa and then on King Kai's he does absolutely nothing.

I do find it funny he came with Tenshinhan when Cyborg Freeza came to Earth. I mean what would he have done had Trunks not shown up?
No one could have done nothing against Mecha Frieza. Not Piccolo nor Vegeta. He would still fight and kill some of Frieza's soldiers. It makes perfect sense that Chaozu was there.

After Goku's defeat in DBS against Beerus, he also comes foward to fight Beerus, along with the rest of the Z-fighters. He was willing to fight even they all knew they had no chance against the God of Destruction.

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Re: Chaozu being completely pointless after his debut

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Mon Nov 09, 2015 10:15 am

Even with Chaozu, it's not so different as it is to say Kuririn rushing out against Super Boo on the lookout. I mean, if you're going to die, may as well go down fighting even if it's hopeless, right?
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