Goku letting Vegeta live, better in the dub rewrite?

[JulieYBM]

Aren't there instances where Goku IS trying to save the world though in the original? The impression I'm getting here is Goku being a asshole is good, but this still doesn't fit with Goku saving the day and all his friends in almost every saga.

If Goku just wanted to fight and set himself up for challenges, why would he be saving his family/friends/the earth every chance he got?

He only "saves the world" because it'd be kind of a pain in the neck having no planet to go home to. Gokuu never actually fears life without his family, friends or the Earth.

I don't think that at all. If he didn't have those things, he'd be devistated.

He would move past it with inhuman speed. Gokuu isn't the sort to dwell on things. He isn't the sort of feel long-term emotions. Even after Kuririn was killed in front of his eyes he told Freeza to hit the road and come back when he was stronger. He was letting a genocidal maniac run free for the sake of more sport. Gokuu is an asshole and a despicable person who should burn in Hell for all eternity. It's what makes him such a lovable character.

[WittyUsername]

I think you might be exaggerating Goku's negative qualities a bit. Yeah he can be pretty selfish, but isn't calling him a "despicable person" kind of pushing it?

[JulieYBM]

I think you might be exaggerating Goku's negative qualities a bit. Yeah he can be pretty selfish, but isn't calling him a "despicable person" kind of pushing it?

He lets the genocidal Piccolo, Vegeta and Freeza run off just so he can continue to fight them again, with no care for how they might kill countless further innocents. That makes him completely terrible. Of course, we're all grown-ups and can tell the difference between fiction and reality, so Gokuu being a piece of fecal matter isn't a problem at all, it's entertainment.

[WittyUsername]

I think you might be exaggerating Goku's negative qualities a bit. Yeah he can be pretty selfish, but isn't calling him a "despicable person" kind of pushing it?

He lets the genocidal Piccolo, Vegeta and Freeza run off just so he can continue to fight them again, with no care for how they might kill countless further innocents. That makes him completely terrible. Of course, we're all grown-ups and can tell the difference between fiction and reality, so Gokuu being a piece of fecal matter isn't a problem at all, it's entertainment.

As I mentioned earlier, Goku can be selfish at times, but you're making it sound as though he's a flat out sociopath. Let's not forget that he did sacrifice himself for the sake of others on two occasions.

[JulieYBM]

I think you might be exaggerating Goku's negative qualities a bit. Yeah he can be pretty selfish, but isn't calling him a "despicable person" kind of pushing it?

He lets the genocidal Piccolo, Vegeta and Freeza run off just so he can continue to fight them again, with no care for how they might kill countless further innocents. That makes him completely terrible. Of course, we're all grown-ups and can tell the difference between fiction and reality, so Gokuu being a piece of fecal matter isn't a problem at all, it's entertainment.

As I mentioned earlier, Goku can be selfish at times, but you're making it sound as though he's a flat out sociopath. Let's not forget that he did sacrifice himself for the sake of others on two occasions.

I don't see how I've exaggerated anything. Gokuu does a little bit of this and a little bit of that, but either way you look at his actions he makes intentionally dangerous decisions and shows little to no remorse. I think 'sociopath' is too realistic--or perhaps too 'simple'--a term to describe Gokuu. What he is can only best be described as something bordering on intangible. He's almost like a force of nature in that regard. Less a relatable human and more an embodiment of the selfish desires and perversions of humanity--or a single human, Toriyama Akira--molded into the form of a powerful superhuman martial artist.

[TheBlackPaladin]

I think the scene would have been much, much more strongly constructed if it was Goku sparing Vegeta's life, rather than him asking Kuririn to.

I completely disagree. That would be no different from Goku sparing Piccolo, or even Reecoom and others, we've seen it many times. He would just let him live and that's it.

What we got was Kuririn struggling to respect the wishes from his best (and flawed) friend, even though he knew that was a mistake. Much more powerful and original.

Oh well don't get me wrong, the idea of Kuririn struggling to respect his friend's wishes and going through with it anyway is a very powerful idea. The concept is not what I have a problem with, but rather, it's the specifics that I'm skeptical about. I'm simply of the belief that Goku was asking too much for Kuririn's response to be believable. If Goku had been the one sparing Vegeta, true, it'd be a repeat of what we had seen before (and what we would see later), but I believe it would also be more believable.

Of course, even if that's how I feel, I also feel that that still doesn't give FUNimation the right to make such a big change to Goku's character, especially when the re-written dub dialogue is not only inaccurate, but at times, insufferably cheesy. I still think that Kuririn would be more receptive to the idea of sparing someone out of mercy, though.

[WittyUsername]

I don't see how I've exaggerated anything. Gokuu does a little bit of this and a little bit of that, but either way you look at his actions he makes intentionally dangerous decisions and shows little to no remorse. I think 'sociopath' is too realistic--or perhaps too 'simple'--a term to describe Gokuu. What he is can only best be described as something bordering on intangible. He's almost like a force of nature in that regard. Less a relatable human and more an embodiment of the selfish desires and perversions of humanity--or a single human, Toriyama Akira--molded into the form of a powerful superhuman martial artist.

I don't think Goku is in any way supposed to embody the most selfish aspects of humanity. There are other characters in Dragon Ball that fit your description better than Goku.

[Faustus]

Sure Goku can oftentimes be selfish and reckless, but he's not so defined by these instances as to be the straight-up "embodiment" of anything. To quote Toriyama, the poisonous elements slip "in and out among the shadows"; they don't make up the core of who Goku is all the time.

I do agree with the "force of nature" classification, however.

[precita]

Goku is always shown to be upset when his friends die, I don't see how anyone can think otherwise:

- He was enraged when Krillin was killed by Tambourine. He was so angry he rushed out looking for vengeance

- When he heard Master Roshi was killed while on Korin's tower, he was shocked and wanted to jump off and fight Piccolo again

- In the Saiyan saga when Goku first arrives, he immediately looks for the bodies of Piccolo, Yamcha and Tien.

- He buries Vegeta after being killed by Freeza

And most importantly of all, Krillin's death by Freeza is what causes his Super Saiyan transformation.

Saying Goku doesn't care about his friends at all and only wants to fight is just plain wrong.

[ABED]

He would move past it with inhuman speed. Gokuu isn't the sort to dwell on things. He isn't the sort of feel long-term emotions. Even after Kuririn was killed in front of his eyes he told Freeza to hit the road and come back when he was stronger. He was letting a genocidal maniac run free for the sake of more sport. Gokuu is an asshole and a despicable person who should burn in Hell for all eternity. It's what makes him such a lovable character.

That's not him moving past it. He didn't move past it after Kuririn was killed, but he wasn't blinded by rage anymore. He had gotten what he wanted. He didn't need to kill Freeza to get revenge, Freeza was humiliated and defeated completely. He was calm, but he wasn't past Kuririn's death.

[Metalwario64]

He would move past it with inhuman speed. Gokuu isn't the sort to dwell on things. He isn't the sort of feel long-term emotions. Even after Kuririn was killed in front of his eyes he told Freeza to hit the road and come back when he was stronger. He was letting a genocidal maniac run free for the sake of more sport. Gokuu is an asshole and a despicable person who should burn in Hell for all eternity. It's what makes him such a lovable character.

That's not him moving past it. He didn't move past it after Kuririn was killed, but he wasn't blinded by rage anymore. He had gotten what he wanted. He didn't need to kill Freeza to get revenge, Freeza was humiliated and defeated completely. He was calm, but he wasn't past Kuririn's death.

Plus, this was after Porunga was revived, so he knew Kulilin could now be revived.

[The Patrolman]

I'm sorry but Goku letting Vegeta in the dub DOES NOT MAKE HIM A SUPERMAN CLONE. There have been moments that Superman has wanted to kill and has killed before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmTg7ROPssc

Goku sparing Vegeta in the dub didnt mean he some selfless dude it was showing how he wanted differ himself from the other Saiyans. Something that Manga Goku has done before. (Scanslation link removed by moderator)

[precita]

I wish the Goku/Superman comparisons would stop. Even dub Goku is not a Superman clone.

[Soppa Saia People]

I'm sorry but Goku letting Vegeta in the dub DOES NOT MAKE HIM A SUPERMAN CLONE. There have been moments that Superman has wanted to kill and has killed before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmTg7ROPssc

Goku sparing Vegeta in the dub didnt mean he some selfless dude it was showing how he wanted differ himself from the other Saiyans. Something that Manga Goku has done before. (Scanslation link removed by moderator)

First off don't use fan-translations and second off no need to be sorry

[MajinMan]

I'm sorry but Goku letting Vegeta in the dub DOES NOT MAKE HIM A SUPERMAN CLONE. There have been moments that Superman has wanted to kill and has killed before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmTg7ROPssc

Goku sparing Vegeta in the dub didnt mean he some selfless dude it was showing how he wanted differ himself from the other Saiyans. Something that Manga Goku has done before. (Scanslation link removed by moderator)

I suggest you go back and watch the dub and then you can clearly tell what their intentions were when they wrote the script for that scene. With their track record of turning Goku into the "ally of good," why would I believe that they tried to take a different approach? Although you may not be wrong with how you described Goku (him not wanting to be a typical saiyan), that scene in particular in the Japanese version is some of the most blatant selfishness we see from Goku.

[garfield15]

I'm sorry to use a reference from a different anime but this is really reminding me of something that happens in One Piece

It's one of the earliest scenes in the manga. When Luffy talks to Coby about why he won't leave the evil pirate crew he's on, Coby goes on about how he's a coward and can't do anything. The infamous 4Kids dub changed Luffy's response to a grunt and then something like "I'm not gonna hit you, that would be mean". The original dialogue is more or less "You're stupid and wimpy, I don't like people like you" [He says with a big grin on his face]

I equate the change in dialogue here like that. The scene is a really powerful moment for Goku as it really conveys to the audience that this is going to be his deal and it is a deal that he keeps up all the way through the series. It's an establishing moment that is dumb and is really dangerous for everyone but, just like in my OP example up there, this is just gonna be what our main character is and that was how Toriyama chose to display it by letting him get away (of course to be honest he had done this with Piccolo so it wasn't really that out of nowhere either)

[Puto]

Letting Piccolo go wasn't selfish, it was "I don't want to kill God at the same time ".

[Araki]

Goku is always shown to be upset when his friends die, I don't see how anyone can think otherwise:

- He was enraged when Krillin was killed by Tambourine. He was so angry he rushed out looking for vengeance

- When he heard Master Roshi was killed while on Karin's tower, he was shocked and wanted to jump off and fight Piccolo again

- In the Saiyan saga when Goku first arrives, he immediately looks for the bodies of Piccolo, Yamcha and Tenshinhan.

- He buries Vegeta after being killed by Freeza

He's not exactly always upset, you gotta remember Kid Goku was a lot more impulsive and easily angered. He changed after he grew up, especially after training with Kami-sama and Popo, which is an important point of his training, and even Kuririn points that out when they meet again.

You can notice how different his reaction is before Yamcha and co. bodies, compared to his younger days. I think the only time we saw adult Goku act that pissed off about losing someone was when Freeza exploded Kuririn before his eyes, really. He does care about Kuririn and the others, that's undeniable, i just say protecting them was never his priority. And it seems the older he gets, more self-centered he is.

[TheUltimateVegito]

dangerous = stupid, its an endangerement to everyone.

why the original sucked: precita already explained it.
why the dub rewrite sucked: Vegeta did not deserve it and he would have killed everyone if he could which he tried to do earlier.

Danger isn't stupidity.

The original doesn't suck, it's in character and it's interesting. I don't get it. You guys complain if Goku is portrayed as too Supermanesque, but when he shows traits that are unique and far from Superman, it's stupid. You dont' have to agree with Goku, it's a matter of if the story is interesting. No, Precita, the rewrite doesn't make sense, it's not his character.

This. I never understood why the people who complain about Goku being a goody two shoes would complain about his Saiyan nature.

[TheUltimateVegito]

I'm sorry to use a reference from a different anime but this is really reminding me of something that happens in One Piece

It's one of the earliest scenes in the manga. When Luffy talks to Coby about why he won't leave the evil pirate crew he's on, Coby goes on about how he's a coward and can't do anything. The infamous 4Kids dub changed Luffy's response to a grunt and then something like "I'm not gonna hit you, that would be mean". The original dialogue is more or less "You're stupid and wimpy, I don't like people like you" [He says with a big grin on his face]

I equate the change in dialogue here like that. The scene is a really powerful moment for Goku as it really conveys to the audience that this is going to be his deal and it is a deal that he keeps up all the way through the series. It's an establishing moment that is dumb and is really dangerous for everyone but, just like in my OP example up there, this is just gonna be what our main character is and that was how Toriyama chose to display it by letting him get away (of course to be honest he had done this with Piccolo so it wasn't really that out of nowhere either)

Great example!