Viz-isms (update: DB chapter 7)

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Viz-isms (update: DB chapter 7)

Post by Herms » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:27 am

Maybe I’ll actually finish it this time.

This is my attempt to explain every way that Viz’s English release of the DB/Z manga differs from the original Japanese (besides, you know, the general fact that it’s in English rather than Japanese). So stuff like changed lines, censorship, things that are lost in translation, etc. Dialogue changes are ranks between 1-4 stars, with **** being an absolutely massive change and * being something probably only I care about. There are some changes I might overlook if they just really, really seem like they’re not worth mentioning.

Besides the star ratings, [censor] indicates things that have been censored, [edit] indicates mainly visual edits that don’t fall under the “censorship” category (translated signs or things like that), [lost] indicates things lost in translation, [sound] is for sound effects-related things, and [note] is for, well, notes. "Tr:" marks my own personal translation of things (which I try to keep as direct as possible), while "Viz" is for how Viz has it, and "JPN" is the actual Japanese text, which I may occasionally add in for the heck of it. Please note that I’m not claiming all these changes are bad or that my translations are better, I’m just offering up a direct translation of the Japanese in order to highlight how Viz’s adaptation is different.

Viz’s DB/Z manga has many different releases, with various levels of censorship and various other differences between them. For this project I’m mainly relying on Viz’s digital release, on my Kindle.

Chapter 1
Chapter 2
Chapter 3
Chapter 4
Chapter 5
Chapter 6
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Re: Viz-isms (update: DB chapter 7)

Post by Herms » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:27 am

NEW!
Chapter 7
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Re: Viz-isms (aka Viz Translation Review Mach 2)

Post by TheGreatness25 » Tue Nov 03, 2015 1:57 am

I would like to thank you for the awesome job you do. Taking the time out to do this is incredible.

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Re: Viz-isms (aka Viz Translation Review Mach 2)

Post by Akumaito Beam » Tue Nov 03, 2015 2:19 am

Nice, I'm hyped. I have a great deal of nostalgia for this translation so I'm super stoked to learn more about it. I'll be obsessively checking back here. :lol:

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Re: Viz-isms (aka Viz Translation Review Mach 2)

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Tue Nov 03, 2015 6:27 am

Wasn't aware of these changes at all.
Lore is NOT story, and it never was, and you should stop spreading this nonsense.
Content is NOT substance.
Bunch of characters doing stuff do NOT make an esemble cast.
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Re: Viz-isms (aka Viz Translation Review Mach 2)

Post by Gozar » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:26 am

Phenomenal job! I really love getting to read all of these alterations. Thanks so much for your hard work!
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Re: Viz-isms (aka Viz Translation Review Mach 2)

Post by Theophrastus » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:36 pm

Thanks so much for doing this, Herms. Really interesting.
Herms wrote: [***]
When Bulma introduces the dragon radar, in Viz she instead simply calls it her “ball detector” for some reason. Is the name “radar” copyrighted or something?
For the record, this is something that was fixed in one of the subsequent printings, as my VizManga digital copy actually calls it the Dragon Radar.

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Re: Viz-isms (aka Viz Translation Review Mach 2)

Post by Herms » Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:14 pm

Chapter 2

[**]
Opening narration
Tr: “Goku and Bulma’s journey has begun to find the seven dragon balls which are said to grant any single wish.”
Viz: “In her quest for the seven dragon balls that will grant her fondest wish, Bulma has enlisted the help of the strange creature named Son Goku”

[*]
Goku
Tr: “Shall we camp here tonight?”
Viz: “I get the soft leaves for my bed!”

So basically, the original line is Goku directly asking if they’ll camp, while Viz’s line is Goku automatically assuming they’re going to camp and saying something else based on that assumption. Another instance of Viz adding an extra layer on. We see the same sort of thing in the next few lines.

[*]
Bulma, after setting up the Capsule house
Tr: “Hey, what are you doing? Come inside.”
Viz: “Well? Still lusting over those leaves?”

[**]
Bulma
Tr: “Are you going to camp out?”
Viz: “Cold enough to come in yet?”

[*]
Bulma reacts to Goku’s ignorance of electric lighting
Tr: “I didn’t think you were such a total hick.”
Viz: “You have a long way to go, Tarzan.”

Another thing which is more just an example Viz spicing up the dialogue than an actual change, but I’m including them for now so you can get a sense of how Viz handles dialogue. The word Bulma always uses to call Goku a hick is inaka-mon (inaka itself basically means “the sticks”, and both these words get used quite a lot in Dr. Slump). Incidentally, a Tarzan parody named Parzan appears in Dr. Slump.

[*]
Bulma, giving Goku a bath
Tr: “There’s no greater fortune than this.”
Viz: “What a waste of my babe-itude.”

Another slightly punched-up line.

[**]
In Japanese, Bulma refers to Goku’s tail as an “accessory” (like a fashion accessory; she uses the actual English word “accessory”), before she learns it’s real. In Viz she just calls it a phony tail

[***]
Bulma, after Goku casually dismisses the whole “do regular men have tails or not?” debate
Tr: “You’ve really got an easy-going personality.”
Viz: “I take it back…’weird’ doesn’t even come close…”

OK, maybe this isn’t exactly worth three stars on its own, but it’s a running joke throughout this early portion of the series that Goku is constantly referred to as being “easy-going” by everyone he meets. In Viz though, half the time they change such lines to something else, messing up the running joke.

[**/lost]
In the bath, Bulma further contemplates Goku’s weirdness
TR: “Geez, calling someone a witch or a demon, when he’s the most mysterious one of all!”
Viz: “Is he for real? He acts like I’m a witch or something…when he’s totally like something that jumped out of a horror m…”

Presumably in Viz Bulma was about to say “horror movie” (she cuts off her sentence when she notices Goku’s there with her). Besides the slight bit of punching up, one thing to note is how in Japanese Bulma rhetorically complains about Goku calling “someone” a witch/demon, when of course by “someone” she obviously means herself. This sort of thing is fairly common in Japanese (usually using the word hito, simply “a person”), and pops up throughout the series. One famous example is Vegeta in DBZ movie 13 chewing Hildegarn out for smashing up “somebody’s” house.

[***/lost]
When Bulma asks Goku how old he is, in the original she calls him “Son-kun”. This is the first time Bulma calls Goku this, and it becomes her standard way of referring to him throughout the series, kun being a Japanese honorific used mostly on young males to show familiarity. So this shows that Bulma is already treating Goku as something of a friend, or at least someone she knows. However, in Viz she simply calls him “kid”, not even using his name.

[*]
More Viz-added Bulma insults (VABI?): "Monkey-boy", "moron"

[*]
In the original, Goku mentions that he will make a whole roast out of the wolf and centipede he catches, but this gets left out in Viz. When Goku asks Bulma is she really doesn’t want some of the wolf/centipede, Viz adds in a joke where he offers to cook hers “medium” (originally he just says the wolf/centipede are almost done cooking).

[**]
Goku
Tr: “This futon is soft, it feels good”
Viz: “This ‘futon’ thing is going to be fun!”

Viz strongly implies that Goku has never slept on a futon before, which the original doesn’t really do, although Goku’s delight at the futon could be interpreted as due to unfamiliarity.

[**]
In the original Bulma explicitly asks Goku if his parents are dead, but in Viz she just asks what happened to them.

[*]
Goku, upon waking up
Tr: “Morning?”
Viz: “Wha?”

[***]
Goku sees Bulma’s crotch
Tr: “Reminds me of grandpa’s fluffy testicle pillow!”
Viz: “Well, her pillow’s not as big as grandpa’s…”

OK…so…how Goku describes his grandfather’s “pillow” in Japanese is kintamakura, which is a combination of kintama (balls/testicles; literally “golden balls”) and makura, pillow. In Viz you still get the idea of what Goku’s talking about, but it’s not as explicitly described as in Japanese.

[**]
Goku
Tr: “No balls…!! No wee-wee either…”
Viz: “Y-y-y-you’ve…l-l-lost your ba-ba-ba-ba…”

In Viz Goku doesn’t mention Bulma not having a wee-wee, or even finish saying “balls”. Since “wee-wee” was used in Viz back in chapter 1, I think this wasn’t done for censorship reasons, but rather to make Bulma look less stupid for thinking Goku was talking about the dragon balls.

[*]
Closing narration
Tr: “Bulma sighs in relief that the dragon balls are safe…But what on Earth is this creepy shadow drawing closer?!”
Viz: “…And so Bulma sighs in relief, her greatest fear averted…but perhaps she shouldn’t relax quite yet…”

[sound]
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Re: Viz-isms (aka Viz Translation Review Mach 2)

Post by Herms » Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:24 pm

Theophrastus wrote:
Herms wrote: [***]
When Bulma introduces the dragon radar, in Viz she instead simply calls it her “ball detector” for some reason. Is the name “radar” copyrighted or something?
For the record, this is something that was fixed in one of the subsequent printings, as my VizManga digital copy actually calls it the Dragon Radar.

Image
Aw, interesting! And that's the VizManga digital copy? I wonder why it's different in the edition I got for my Kindle? For some reason I assumed all the digital editions would be the same.
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Re: Viz-isms (aka Viz Translation Review Mach 2)

Post by ShadowDude112 » Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:30 pm

Herms wrote:
Theophrastus wrote:
Herms wrote: [***]
When Bulma introduces the dragon radar, in Viz she instead simply calls it her “ball detector” for some reason. Is the name “radar” copyrighted or something?
For the record, this is something that was fixed in one of the subsequent printings, as my VizManga digital copy actually calls it the Dragon Radar.

Image
Aw, interesting! And that's the VizManga digital copy? I wonder why it's different in the edition I got for my Kindle? For some reason I assumed all the digital editions would be the same.
I think someone said in a previous thread you made that for some reason, the Kindle editions are all the first print versions for some unexplained reason.
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Re: Viz-isms (update: DB chapter 2)

Post by Theophrastus » Tue Nov 03, 2015 10:38 pm

The impression that I get, based on soppa saia people's posts in your thread about planning to do this (which they have removed for some reason), is that for whatever reason the Kindle release is a scan of Viz's first printing (or, at least, one of the earlier ones), whereas the version on VizManga is a scan of one of the more recent ones with censored dialogue and other minor translation touch-ups/typo fixes.

I have no idea if this is something intentional on Viz's part or if someone just goofed, but I'm inclined to think it's a mistake because it doesn't really make much sense to propagate an earlier draft of the translation like this.

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Re: Viz-isms (update: DB chapter 2)

Post by Soppa Saia People » Wed Nov 04, 2015 12:09 am

Theophrastus wrote:The impression that I get, based on soppa saia people's posts in your thread about planning to do this (which they have removed for some reason), is that for whatever reason the Kindle release is a scan of Viz's first printing (or, at least, one of the earlier ones), whereas the version on VizManga is a scan of one of the more recent ones with censored dialogue and other minor translation touch-ups/typo fixes.

I have no idea if this is something intentional on Viz's part or if someone just goofed, but I'm inclined to think it's a mistake because it doesn't really make much sense to propagate an earlier draft of the translation like this.
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Re: Viz-isms (update: DB chapter 2)

Post by DragonDuck » Wed Nov 04, 2015 5:55 am

Awesome work!

To me, the Viz-version seems too ... localized. As you go along, I will compare with my Danish manga. If I find something interesting in that, I'll let you know.
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Re: Viz-isms (update: DB chapter 2)

Post by Pokewhiz7 » Wed Nov 04, 2015 1:53 pm

I recall Adamant saying that the Danish manga was translated from the German version, which itself is pretty good based off of the small amount of the German manga that I do own. Probably better than Viz, and certainly better in terms of being (to my knowledge) completely uncensored visually.

EDIT: Here is a comparison of chapter 1: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 55#p547351
And I can take a look at chapter 2.
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Re: Viz-isms (update: DB chapter 2)

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Wed Nov 04, 2015 2:30 pm

For whatever reason, Viz has Bulma call Goku a “he-man” where in the original she just calls him a man/male.
Now someone has to do an edit of the scene where Goku holds the Z-Sword and make him say "By the Power of Greyskull!"
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Re: Viz-isms (update: DB chapter 3)

Post by Herms » Wed Nov 04, 2015 10:38 pm

OK, updated for chapter 3. I've switched to just updated the original post rather than posting them throughout the thread.

What do you guys think of the --- marks to separate each entry? I was thinking they all tended to blend together a bit too much.
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Re: Viz-isms (update: DB chapter 3)

Post by Akumaito Beam » Wed Nov 04, 2015 11:56 pm

Herms wrote: Tr: “It’s not going to be a tamate=bako, is it?”
I believe Clyde Mandelin translated this as "Pandora's Box" in the anime subtitles.

I like that you consolidated everything in the original post as opposed to your analysis being scattered throughout the thread. The dividers helped a lot too. It makes for breezy reading. Awesome job, this has been fascinating.

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Re: Viz-isms (update: DB chapter 3)

Post by EmmaWinters » Thu Nov 05, 2015 12:52 am

Herms wrote:What do you guys think of the --- marks to separate each entry? I was thinking they all tended to blend together a bit too much.
It works great, in my opinion. Keep it.
Herms wrote:[note]
In the speech bubble that says “20 minutes later”, Viz’s printing has the text printed very, very small, so that most of the balloon is empty. I just found that odd.
This sorta thing drives me up the wall. VIZ's font sizes are all over the place, and the text block is usually off-center in the balloon. Berserk's nice typesetting spoiled me and now I always get put off when things like this crop up.
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Re: Viz-isms (update: DB chapter 3)

Post by Theophrastus » Thu Nov 05, 2015 5:56 am

Herms wrote: I assume a big part of this is simply due to the two manga series being handled by different translators, but I also wonder if Viz has changed their approach in the years since they put out their DB/Z manga, or if there’s something about DB’s dialogue that just lends itself to this approach more.
I haven't actually bought any of Viz's One Punch Man volumes (just the Weekly Shonen Jump issues, which only list translators) so I can't check the credits, but OPM doesn't have anyone credited for an "English Adaptation", does it? I think that may be the big thing. DB and DBZ both had their translations "adapted" by Gerard Jones (while the translations themselves are credited to Mari Morimoto and Lillian Olsen, respectively). Presumably the dialogue not going through as many filters results in the translation being a bit more direct.

Then again, Viz may have also actually changed policy since the DB days. Their translations of the earlier volumes of One Piece (which came out around the same time as their DB/Z translations, 2003-2006) were also a bit more "flavorful" (by means of pirate-speak and such), and those credited Lance Caselman for their English adaptation. They stopped doing the pirate-speak after a while, and even later volumes where the adaptation is credited to the same person don't really do it.

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Re: Viz-isms (update: DB chapter 3)

Post by EmmaWinters » Thu Nov 05, 2015 6:11 am

Herms wrote:I haven't actually bought any of Viz's One Punch Man volumes (just the Weekly Shonen Jump issues, which only list translators) so I can't check the credits, but OPM doesn't have anyone credited for an "English Adaptation", does it?
Nope. The credits are pretty bare-bones.
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