What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

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Re: What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

Post by precita » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:31 pm

In the 10 days for Cell people were still shown in cities and stadiums cheering Mr. Satan. Goku going on a shopping trip makes no difference.

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Re: What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:50 pm

DBZ Movie 7 is set long before the Cell games. Goku would be sick in bed during DBZ Movie 7 or at Kami's Look Out training during the time that the movie is supposed to take place. None of the Z fighters in DBZ Movie 7 train in the Room of Time and Space which can explain why they are nowhere as popular they would in the movie. Not to mention Trunks hair is still short, Goku or Vegeta can't go beyond SSJ, Gohan can't go SSj and he is at the same height as Krillin. Even if you have your own personal canon, things still need to make sense.
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Re: What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

Post by precita » Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:03 pm

Yes, Gohan's height was wrong, he wasn't drawn older looking till the Broly movie. Bulma also cut Trunks hair short again the first time he came out of the time chamber. I see it taking place the day after Vegeta comes out of the time chamber for the first time, but before Trunks and Piccolo go in a second time. That also explains why Vegeta isn't there the first half of the movie and why Trunks hair is still short.

Movie 8 fits in perfectly though due to Gohan drawn in his teen design and the characters being on a picnic presumedly 2 days before the start of the Cell games. They spend 1 full day on New Vegeta in the movie.

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Re: What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

Post by Cetra » Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:45 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:I think it would be impossible to have everything canon in one continuity or timeline. That's why I view DB Movies 1-4 and DBZ Movies 1-13 expect for Movie 9 and 13 to be alternate timelines. DBZ Movies 1-13 are like what if stories like DBZ Movie 7 can be a what if story if Cell never went back in time and Trunks found the blue paints to active the bombs inside #17 and #18. #17 & #18 where destroy early on which can explain why they where never reference again in the film and why Goku is seen shopping with Chi Chi at West City since the other Z fighters would be at Kami's lookout at this point. They would be worry that #16-18 and Cell are on the loose too.
And vol. 34 cannot happen in the same continuity as a everything from a certain chapter of vol. 35 to the rest as Cell died the moment he lost his head because it was established that this is the center of his regeneration. It still happened in the same continuity. Logic does not actually erase any possibility in fiction, even if it does not make sense because the final words are "it does not need to follow logic (obviously it does not make sense then but technically it still can happen even if not from a logical perspective), only counting is that as the one who decides, I want it to be". Is that a good thing? Well, not always as we like our logic. But it is, how it is.
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Re: What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:05 pm

Well Toriyama said that the old DBZ movies are set in their own dimension and DB Movies 1-4 are mention to be set in their own worlds. In my personal canon way on viewing things, I think time travel always cause a time paradox and causing infinite timelines to be made. That can explain why DB Movies 1-4 are retellings and why most of DBZ Movie 1-13 don't fit. Same with GT and Dragon Ball Online since those are different timelines too.
Cetra wrote:
And vol. 34 cannot happen in the same continuity as a everything from a certain chapter of vol. 35 to the rest as Cell died the moment he lost his head because it was established that this is the center of his regeneration.
That's different since that's a minor plot hole. That's way different then having something like Movie 3 can't fit because everyone is still alive when the movie is set right after Vegeta is defeated and Movie 7 can't fit because everyone in the movie is much weaker then they would be during the time rate when the movie was release and the lack of Gohan going SSj.
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Re: What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

Post by Cetra » Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:08 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote:Same with GT and Dragon Ball Online since those are different timelines too.
Except that was never said outside of a videogame. I can say the same thing about DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi or other games that treat everything as one.
Hellspawn28 wrote: That's different since that's a minor plot hole.
You think a plothole that makes the rest of DBZ not possible to exist because it means Gohan will not fight Cell, et cetera is a minor plothole? Okay. Whatever.
By the way, all movies, if we really need to correct them, can be corrected by just small details. It does not require more than for "original" DBZ plotholes.
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Re: What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

Post by IDreamtIWasABee » Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:26 pm

If they made it in the 80s or 90s, I take it seriously.

All the old movies fit if you distort things enough. Part of their charm is that they never quite fall in or out of plausibility.

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Re: What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

Post by precita » Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:29 pm

In Movie 9 Gohan doesn't even transform into a SSJ2 until Goku tells him to. He fights and loses as a regular Super Saiyan. It reminds me how in the Cooler movie Goku fought in his base form until he lost and didn't power up to Super Saiyan until the end. So why do people accept Gohan not transforming into a SSJ2 right away in Movie 9, yet complain when Goku doesn't do it in Movie 5?

I also notice in Movie 7 neither Trunks nor Vegeta nor Goku power up to Super Saiyan right away. For some reason they all fight the androids in their base forms till they start losing.

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Re: What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Fri Nov 27, 2015 9:36 pm

Probably because Goku knows how to use SSj form. You could argue that Gohan has yet to master his SSj2 powers yet. Movie 9 is set sometime after the Cell games, so Gohan may not know how to use his powers yet. Gohan as a kid most likely he can't go SSj2 until he becomes angry. Movie 5 is set right after Goku meets Future Trunks and Goku most likely had a year in space to learn on how use his SSj powers.
precita wrote:Yes, Gohan's height was wrong, he wasn't drawn older looking till the Broly movie. Bulma also cut Trunks hair short again the first time he came out of the time chamber. I see it taking place the day after Vegeta comes out of the time chamber for the first time, but before Trunks and Piccolo go in a second time. That also explains why Vegeta isn't there the first half of the movie and why Trunks hair is still short.

Movie 8 fits in perfectly though due to Gohan drawn in his teen design and the characters being on a picnic presumedly 2 days before the start of the Cell games. They spend 1 full day on New Vegeta in the movie.
Movie 7 still can't fit anywhere. If it's set during the Cell game break then why didn't Goku and Vegeta go beyond SSj to kill Super #13? DBZ Movie 7 has the Z fighters when they fought #17 and #18, not afterwards. Super #13 is way too weak to be around Cell level. Not to mention Future Trunks would go beyond SSj too and he didn't in the film. If it's set before they went in the Time Chamber then they would be too busy going after Cell and #17-18. They won't have time to relax and go shopping.

Movie 8 also can't fit because the whole Earth was in panic because of the fear of Doomsday. Chi Chi takes Goku for a interview when that could never happen in the anime or manga. Goku and Gohan are seen in their base forms instead of their FPSSj forms. Cell is nowhere to be mention or seen in the movie. He would have taken notice of Broli's ki like Piccolo did.
I can say the same thing about DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi or other games that treat everything as one.
Those games came out a long time ago. Things have changed since then and those game came out before we had Toryiama on returning to the series. I think his input on BOG, ROF and his other recent involvements on the series have changed the series a lot since then.
You think a plothole that makes the rest of DBZ not possible to exist because it means Gohan will not fight Cell, et cetera is a minor plothole?
That's way different since that's the manga, the main continuity of the series.
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Re: What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

Post by precita » Sat Nov 28, 2015 3:31 am

Hellspawn28 wrote: Movie 8 also can't fit because the whole Earth was in panic because of the fear of Doomsday. Chi Chi takes Goku for a interview when that could never happen in the anime or manga. Goku and Gohan are seen in their base forms instead of their FPSSj forms. Cell is nowhere to be mention or seen in the movie. He would have taken notice of Broli's ki like Piccolo did.
The entire Earth was also still going about their daily business. Once Mr. Satan announced he would be in the Cell Games they showed people watching him from stadiums and cheering. Also as we've seen during the Cell games, people didn't evacuate every city.

Cell isn't mentioned in the movie because there was no reason to. Most of the movie doesn't even take place on Earth. I'll give you Goku and Gohan being in their base forms while they were relaxing but that can be overlooked.

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Re: What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

Post by Blade » Sat Nov 28, 2015 4:15 am

I tend to ignore most of the movies, which I treat as separate orbiting bodies floating free of any direct narrative course. I can, however, isolate three distinct continuities without too many issues... But given the convoluted nature of what we're dealing with, it should be taken as read that there are issues no matter which continuity you try and follow - even if it's just the manga.

Continuity A
Manga > Battle of Gods > Revival of F

Continuity B
Dragonball Anime > Dragonball Z Movie 1 (Because it's essential for the Garlic Junior Arc to make any sort of sense as a sequel) > Dragonball Z Anime > Dragonball GT (Ignoring the fact that movie villains show up during the Super 17 arc, which I always took as a visual Easter Egg rather than an indication of continuity)

Continuity C
Dragonball Kai > Dragonball Super

It's sort of clear that Super isn't following the same route as Battle of Gods and Revival of F, and the fact that they've even gone and used cuts of animation from Kai for various flashbacks makes me think that they're treating this as a direct anime sequel to Kai, which had just finished airing, just as GT was to Z originally.
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Re: What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

Post by DanielSSJ » Mon Nov 30, 2015 11:55 pm

My head canon is the Dragon Ball manga, Bardock: Father of Goku, History of Trunks, and the new movies. I would say Dragon Ball Super, but I just didn't like the "Beerus Arc". Battle of Gods did it better.

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Re: What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

Post by Cipher » Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:54 am

Like others here, I'm pretty comfortable with the idea of three major timelines that fit together with minimal trouble:

Original anime timeline:

Dragon Ball --> (some version of Z movie 1) --> Z --> Z movie 13 --> GT

Manga timeline:

Manga + Jaco + optionally Battle of Gods and Resurrection F + some version of the new Universe 6 material, however that shakes out?

New anime timeline:

Dragon Ball (or a version of its events) --> Kai --> Super (+ some version of Jaco)

Lots of wiggle room on interaction between the new movies, manga and Super; I'll probably be better able to parse that once this round of material ends.

Outside of that there's miscellany like the first three Dragon Ball movies being in continuity with one another, and whatever weird-ass internal consistency Heroes might have that I'm not following, but mostly everything else I just consider an isolated off-shoot and often beholden to the whims of a non-storytelling media like games.

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Re: What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

Post by andrewtuell1991 » Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:51 am

Jaco the Galactic Patrolman
Dragon Ball Minus
The 519 chapters of the manga (prefer the kanzenban versions of 516 and 519 to their rushed tankoubon counterparts)
Trunks the Story -A Lone Warrior- (don't particularly care for it's drawn-out and needlessly dramatic it's anime counterpart is)

I'll need a bit more time to decide which of the three versions of Super (movies, anime, manga) I consider definitive, though I'm currently leaning to the manga.

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Re: What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

Post by Thouser » Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:14 am

Hellspawn28 wrote:Movie 5 is set right after Goku meets Future Trunks
Not really. When movie 5 came out, the manga was right at the part where Goku comes out of Ginyu's pod wearing the alien clothes. The movie was obviously written and planned long before that, hence Goku not being able to transform into a Super Saiyan at will, Gohan having his Namek haircut, and everyone acting like Goku killed Freeza (instead of Trunks).

The movie is really just set in some hypothetical time after Goku's defeated Freeza, imagined while the fight between Goku and Freeza was still happening.

As for my "canon":

Bardock Special (Episode of Bardock optional) / Dragon Ball Minus
V
Jaco manga (optional)
V
DB manga chapters 1-194 / DB anime
V
DB manga chapters 195-517 / DBZ anime 1-288 / DB Kai 1-157
V
Yo! Son Goku and Friends Return
V
BoG and FnF / DB Super anime / DB Super manga
V
DB manga chapters 517-519 (either tankōbon or kanzenban ending)/ DBZ anime 289-291/ DB Kai 158-159
V
DBGT (optional)

All the DB and DBZ movies are off on their own. Oh, and I consider the Trunks special (manga and anime versions interchangable) as "canon" too.
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Re: What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

Post by precita » Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:17 am

Technically Goku did defeat Freeza, it doesn't make a difference that he survived. Cooler asked him who beat Freeza on Namek.

Toei always has the heroes fight in their base forms till they're about to lose. Goku not turning Super Saiyan till almost losing is the same thing Gohan did in Movie 9, or everyone did against Broly in Movie 8. And they always had the power to transform as seen in the movie, so its no different than Movie 5.

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Re: What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Wed Dec 02, 2015 8:34 am

I just Go by Toei's canon
ball-z-gt

I put in whatever movies and specials don't contradict to much.

fusion reborn-doesn't fit
dead zone and the first cooler-fit
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Re: What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

Post by jrdemr » Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:06 pm

.Original manga + Jaco
.Bardock special
.JSAT Special
.Battle of Gods
.Fukkatsu no F
.Dragon Ball Super

Basically, everything Toriyama had an involvement in writing the story or that he recognized as part of his own story (Bardock special)

Recently, some things have contradicted each other (Bardock special VS Dragon Ball Minus/BoG+F VS Super retelling). In that case, I consider both canon, but give precedence to the oldest version.

Though I can still obviously enjoy the anime as an adaptation of the original material.

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Re: What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

Post by Lord Beerus » Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:28 pm

- Jaco
- Dragon Ball Minus
- Dragon Ball Manga
- Dragon Ball Kai
- Movie 13
- Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return!
- Battle Of Gods
- Resurrection F
- Dragon Ball Super

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Re: What is your Franchise Head-Canon?

Post by Muffin Man » Wed Dec 09, 2015 11:56 pm

For me, I consider everything that fits chronologically with the most concise version of the anime story.


- Bardock: Father of Goku

- Dragon Ball

- Dragon Ball Z Kai (Saiyans/Freeza)

- History of Trunks

- Dragon Ball Z Kai (Androids/Cell)

- Bojack Unbound

- Dragon Ball Z Kai (Buu)

- Wrath of the Dragon

- Yo! Son Goku and His Friends Return

- Battle of Gods

- Resurrection F

- Dragon Ball Z Kai (End of Z)

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