Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

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Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

Post by Vijay » Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:40 am

Both as a character & his impact to the series

For me, Majin Vegeta was da peak of his character.

His incarnation as Majin, long-awaited rematch & his subsequent sacrifice provided some of da highest points of Buu Arc.

Thoughts?

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Re: Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

Post by sintzu » Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:11 am

MY favorite Vegeta parts happened when he was Majin.

The rematch between him and Goku is arguably the best in the franchise.

Him finally accepting who he is and giving up his life for his family&planet.

His fight with Buu was also a great moment cause it didn't end with Buu knocking him out or killing him like the previous 2 main villains.
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Re: Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

Post by FoolsGil » Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:38 am

Majin Vegeta is the culmination of all my hatred of that character: Selfish. Cruel. Delusional. He's a goddamn monster.
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Re: Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

Post by Gaffer Tape » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:09 am

While his ultimate sacrifice is poignant, and the idea of a Vegeta getting fed up with life on earth is good on paper... yeah, I agree with FoolsGil. For me it's the point I throw up my hands and go, "This guy is the biggest whiner and most useless load the series has ever produced!" Once again, Vegeta screws everyone over and ruins countless lives for his own selfish desires. And, hey, I'm all for character conflict. I'm all for inner turmoil. But I cannot find anything even remotely sympathetic about a guy whose childish temper tantrum is to murder hundreds of people and let an eldritch abomination take over the world just so he can pick a fight with Goku. And, by the way, I find nothing special, exciting, or even remotely interesting about their rematch. And that's even before it turns out that Goku was just screwing around. But you know Vegeta's in a bad place where I can honestly say Chaozu is more useful than him. Because while Chaozu is left at home contributing nothing, he's at least not actively making things worse!

Majin Vegeta is the moment Vegeta definitively proves he's a more dangerous threat to the earth than the villains are. I can't stand it, and I can't stand him.
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Re: Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

Post by xXInfinite026Xx » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:53 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:While his ultimate sacrifice is poignant, and the idea of a Vegeta getting fed up with life on earth is good on paper... yeah, I agree with FoolsGil. For me it's the point I throw up my hands and go, "This guy is the biggest whiner and most useless load the series has ever produced!" Once again, Vegeta screws everyone over and ruins countless lives for his own selfish desires. And, hey, I'm all for character conflict. I'm all for inner turmoil. But I cannot find anything even remotely sympathetic about a guy whose childish temper tantrum is to murder hundreds of people and let an eldritch abomination take over the world just so he can pick a fight with Goku. And, by the way, I find nothing special, exciting, or even remotely interesting about their rematch. And that's even before it turns out that Goku was just screwing around. But you know Vegeta's in a bad place where I can honestly say Chaozu is more useful than him. Because while Chaozu is left at home contributing nothing, he's at least not actively making things worse!

Majin Vegeta is the moment Vegeta definitively proves he's a more dangerous threat to the earth than the villains are. I can't stand it, and I can't stand him.
To me, what makes Majin Vegeta's arc interesting was always because of the plot/story element that it brought to the Buu arc itself, rather than the sympathetic views some Vegeta fans express for him at this moment. I certainly agree with you about how you feel on Vegeta's actions so I'm not trying to justify them. Why should I? I'm not even the biggest Vegeta fan. However for the sake of Toriyama's plot, I disagree about the rematch not being exciting/interesting. It cemented the bitter rivalry between the two (mainly Vegeta) and let out any last demons for the character before finally turning over a new leaf for good. Was Vegeta being a selfish, whiny bastard? Yes by all accounts. But that's how Toriyama had written the character up to that point and paved the way for a surprise turn of events by having Vegeta a "bad guy" again at the worst possible time for the main characters.
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Re: Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 12:57 pm

I pretty much agree with everything GafferTape said. By this part of the series, Vegeta isn't even a character. He's a caricature of some other person who is most assuredly not the guy we saw in the Saiyan and Namek arcs. At least Babidi's spell gave a plot-related reason for this, but it still doesn't excuse the travesty that is Vegeta's character derailment post-Freeza.
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Re: Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

Post by Wezenheim » Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:00 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:While his ultimate sacrifice is poignant, and the idea of a Vegeta getting fed up with life on earth is good on paper... yeah, I agree with FoolsGil. For me it's the point I throw up my hands and go, "This guy is the biggest whiner and most useless load the series has ever produced!" Once again, Vegeta screws everyone over and ruins countless lives for his own selfish desires. And, hey, I'm all for character conflict. I'm all for inner turmoil. But I cannot find anything even remotely sympathetic about a guy whose childish temper tantrum is to murder hundreds of people and let an eldritch abomination take over the world just so he can pick a fight with Goku. And, by the way, I find nothing special, exciting, or even remotely interesting about their rematch. And that's even before it turns out that Goku was just screwing around. But you know Vegeta's in a bad place where I can honestly say Chaozu is more useful than him. Because while Chaozu is left at home contributing nothing, he's at least not actively making things worse!

Majin Vegeta is the moment Vegeta definitively proves he's a more dangerous threat to the earth than the villains are. I can't stand it, and I can't stand him.
Very much this. I loved the Goku vs. Majin Vegeta fight. I do. That being said, the Boo arc was the first time I started actually liking Vegeta, and then BAM he goes all evil and almost threw away all that character development. His sacrifice redeemed him in a few ways, and I still think Vegeta was the highlight of the Boo arc, but Majin Vegeta was the one point that really irked me. It was really jarring and disappointing at the time and made me lose a lot of respect for him that he thankfully and slowly earned back by the end. Infinite brings up a lot of good points, but I just can't bring myself to care for Majin Vegeta.

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Re: Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

Post by DarkPrince_92 » Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:11 pm

Majin Vegeta was the greatest thing to happen to the greatest character ever. All the things I loved about Vegeta in a cool SSJ2 form.
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Re: Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

Post by B » Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:36 pm

Majin Vegeta is the same Vegeta he always was; he just then had the means to be the complete and utter dick that being in Goku's presence could never allow. It's his sacrifice and realization he's not the center of the universe that almost makes up for it. And Battle of Gods.
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Re: Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

Post by voltlunok » Thu Nov 26, 2015 2:14 pm

So I view the whole Majin Vegeta thing in a very similar light to the Zuko arc in book 2 of Avatar the last airbender. In a way its his crossroads and he has to make a choice. Go back to being a villain and have the power he desires so greatly or let his ego go and start anew with his family. The issue here is kind of in execution, while they both picked 'go evil' again for a bit, they made realizations that it was the wrong choice and made amends, this works for Zuko cause he really only stabs a couple people in the back and he just makes amends....however Vegeta's sacrifice doesn't really make up for all the people he killed and in all honesty...I agreed with Kaioshin, Vegeta's need to fight Goku to satisfy his ego was meaningless.

My thoughts on the Majin Vegeta stuff are that it is a neat idea on paper but it wasn't executed well, especially if you weren't a fan of Vegeta going into the Buu saga, this just exasperated the problems some have with Vegeta to the point of swearing the character off, I know it did for me. It was everything I hated about Vegeta cranked up to 11 and the knob was ripped off.
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Re: Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

Post by Soppa Saia People » Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:07 pm

I like the design but I hate the form and thhe way he acts.
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Re: Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

Post by MozillaVulpix » Thu Nov 26, 2015 5:34 pm

I think it was a really interesting way to explore his character a little more. He does regress a bit in terms of character development, but it's used in an interesting way, and you can justify it as him essentially going through a mid-life crisis. People do stupid, reckless things when they're in situations like that.

Although I do agree with other here in saying that it shows sometimes Vegeta is the biggest antagonist in the series. He causes more problems than he solves.
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Re: Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

Post by LightBing » Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:42 pm

It's creation was due a conjunction of various improbable events. He went into the tournament with the mindset to fight Goku, the last opportunity he'd ever have. They were even paired in the first match! It all starts going wrong the moment Kaioshin appears and starts doing his thing. Vegeta only followed them because Goku bailed on the fight.
Then things start going wrong and they play along in Babidi's game. Kaioshin shows his utter incompetence and stops Vegeta from blowing up the ship. To add insult to injury, Goku shows how he's still better than Vegeta during the Yakon fight. All this piles up until Vegeta, in a moment of weakness, decides to give in to Babidi's magic, so that he can compete with Goku, which was what he really wanted from the start.

I don't think it's badly written, Vegeta was still in the process of turning "good". He cared for his family. Goku ignoring him, when this was the only opportunity he had, made him give in and throw away everything else. Vegeta even agreed to fight in the tournament, complying to everyone rules.
It must have been burning him up, ever since Goku died in the Cell Games.

Seeing things from Vegeta perspective, we can see it wasn't unreasonable for things to have gone this way.

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Re: Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Nov 26, 2015 7:13 pm

Majin Vegeta was just basically regular Vegeta unleashed. Vegeta was by no means fully tamed, and never really fully understood or accepted the concept humility, so quite frankly, he could have gone off at any moment and just went, "Fuck all of this!", and became and full fledged evil prick again. Majin Vegeta was basically the result of that. It's like taking the muzzle off of a wild bulldog and freeing him from his chain.

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Re: Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

Post by MajinMan » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:21 pm

The Majin Vegeta section of the Buu arc has some of the best drama in the series. I love everything about it.
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Re: Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:11 am

He should have stayed dead.
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dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
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Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

Post by Lunatic Fringe » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:30 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:He should have stayed dead.
Don't you think that as arguably the second most popular character of the franchise, keeping him dead would just be asking for fan backlash?

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Re: Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:33 am

Lunatic Fringe wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:He should have stayed dead.
Don't you think that as arguably the second most popular character of the franchise, keeping him dead would just be asking for fan backlash?
Toriyama feeds off of fan backlash.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

Post by Lunatic Fringe » Fri Nov 27, 2015 12:41 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Lunatic Fringe wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:He should have stayed dead.
Don't you think that as arguably the second most popular character of the franchise, keeping him dead would just be asking for fan backlash?
Toriyama feeds off of fan backlash.
I do, in the sense of “betraying the fans’ expectations”. For instance, when I got a lot of, “Don’t kill Vegeta,” I deliberately killed him. (laughs)
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Still, I think permanently getting rid of such a popular character and not bringing him back might be kinda risky, especially when you consider that this is a series where the consequence of death can easily be reversed. If it was written that Vegeta nobly sacrificed himself for the greater good and there was no way to bring him back, I think fans could come to terms with that since he at least left the series on a positive note.

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Re: Thoughts on Majin Vegeta

Post by dae428 » Fri Nov 27, 2015 1:16 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Lunatic Fringe wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:He should have stayed dead.
Don't you think that as arguably the second most popular character of the franchise, keeping him dead would just be asking for fan backlash?
Toriyama feeds off of fan backlash.
You know that's probably why he made Gohan be the whipping boy in the Dragon Ball Z movies and Super. I can imagine Toriyama adding in small notes to Toei like, "make sure Gohan gets one-punched by Freeza." and "Be sure that when Videl announces her pregnancy, Mr. Satan one-punches him out of the way." while rubbing his hands together and laughing as he gathers up the salty tears of Gohan fanboys. "Give Gohan a chance to prove his worth in the new tournament?! Screw that! Where's Cartman Boo? Yeah... I'll add him in and make him even more obnoxious than he already is! Plus I'll add in an alternate evil Goku from universe 6 and and Brolli from the movies! This'll get 'em riled up! Don't worry guys! I added in a lot more action scenes... Where Gohan dies!!! Mwahahahaha!" :lol: (I'm kidding of course)

Anyways back on topic. I actually quite like Majin Vegeta. I get it he causes a major problem, but honestly I thought it really worked for the story. There was foreshadowing with Spopovitch and Yamu and it was the best way to create the conditions to waking up Boo. It was also one of those things that I completely didn't expect going into the Boo arc and yet made complete sense while showing us the calculating Vegeta that we saw back on Namek while at the same time preserving his badassery in that he wasn't made into a completely subservient wimp.

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