Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

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Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

Post by precita » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:59 am

So I just rewatched the Videl Vs. Spopovitch episodes recently, and even to this day my stomach gets a little queasy at the end of the match when Spopovitch is beating Videl like a ragdoll. The parts where he punches her right in the stomach and you see her spit out blood, as well as all the swift punches to the face were animated with a lot of intensity in the anime. Likewise the end where Spopovitch is stomping on her face to finish her off, and you see her crying and screaming really gets me.

While other fights in DBZ were much more bloody or brutal, I think its the fact that Videl is just a normal girl and not a super powered fighter that makes this one harder to watch. Unlike when we see Vegeta, Gohan, Krillin, Piccolo and Goku get the crap beaten out of them, its a lot different feeling than to see a normal girl almost defenseless against a guy tearing through her. Videl is barely above the power of a normal human and even leaving the feminism stuff aside, its still hard to watch.

Even after all these years that fight still gets me every time.

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Re: Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

Post by sintzu » Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:53 am

It's one of the darkest moments in the franchise which makes any argument about the arc being more lighthearted then the others invalid.
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Re: Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

Post by MozillaVulpix » Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:56 am

Looking at it completely objectively, it's not as brutal. When we've seen character lose limbs, what Videl goes through is kind of tame. But it's still the fight that's the hardest to watch for me. Mostly because, yes, Videl is a mostly ordinary teenage girl, and she had no idea what she was getting herself into.

Even the way the fight is drawn and animated, the choreography is a lot more realistic, and it really likes highlighting the brutality. It's mostly hand-to-hand combat, after all. There aren't any energy blasts, or over-the-top kung fu.
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Re: Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

Post by precita » Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:16 am

What kicks it up a notch is that Videl was flying out of the ring, and Spopovitch catches her before she hits the ground, and throws her back into the middle so he can continue pummeling on her. Its the brutality of him wanting to continue beating her up when she was going to lose that adds to it.

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Re: Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

Post by Vijay » Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:35 am

Videl vs Spopovitch in Ep 116 was pretty tame. Well drawn & focused on Spopovitch's maniacal grins, laughs etc

What pains me was the freaking ending of Ep 116 showed Videl had nowhere to escape, cuz her opponent also used bukujutsu.

The hype was destroyed by Ep 117, when Ebisawa Yukio drawings pop!

Had Tadayoshi Yamamuro animated the "brutal" part, I'd say it will be by far the most heart-wrenching beatdown

That being said, I consider Broly slaughtering M10 Gohan to be most brutal. Clothesline, Bear-Hug, Stomp whatnot! Gosh...

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Re: Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

Post by EmmaWinters » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:11 am

I feel that this fight is a lot more impactful in the manga.
Videl's broken teeth really hammer home just how far in over her head she is.
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Re: Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

Post by rereboy » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:50 am

It's just because she's a girl.

Our bias makes it look more brutal because we instinctively associate girl/women with being more helpless (physically) and being more peaceful (physically).

If it was Yamcha instead of Videl, or even a random male fighter, it would be exactly the same but nobody would think it was that special.

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Re: Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

Post by Lunatic Fringe » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:58 am

It is but I no longer think about it as the big, bad meany pants beating up "poor wittle Videl". Keep in mind that she had more than one opportunity to give up after clearly being outclassed and beaten down and that came after the fact that had it not been for Babidi, Videl would have MURDERED someone. Yeah, she gets roughed up and she got more than she deserved but she had a way out and opted to weather the worst for being stubborn in the face of insurmountable odds.

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Re: Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

Post by Draconic » Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:04 am

Well, the most brutal part of it is when Videl breaks the guy's neck. The beatdown itself is nothing special. Piccolo and Tao did stuff like that in the preliminaries of the 23rd Budokai. This fight is on par with Tenshinhan vs Yamcha at the 22nd TB. Really, nothing unseen or special about it.
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Re: Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

Post by baneofdemon22 » Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:09 am

Edit: Nevermind....I don't even understand the sexist argument argument anymore. I think it's a great fight, and I think Videl is awesome for giving it all in a fight, but she's so sweet, so it's hard to watch.
Last edited by baneofdemon22 on Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:46 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:47 am

I figured it was because she was a small teenager with no superhuman abilities whatever (though she's really strong for a mere human) so it's like watching a pseudo-realistic beating... but it turns out it's about gender.

You sexist fucks!
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Re: Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

Post by rereboy » Tue Dec 01, 2015 9:43 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote:I figured it was because she was a small teenager with no superhuman abilities whatever (though she's really strong for a mere human) so it's like watching a pseudo-realistic beating... but it turns out it's about gender.

You sexist fucks!
She's 18 or 17 (aka basically adult) and she's one of the strongest humans, so that makes no sense. It's about bender. Even the fight between gohan and reccome doesn't get mentioned as much as this one as being brutal and gohan was 5 years old and got his neck broken.

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Re: Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:00 am

rereboy wrote:
DBZAOTA482 wrote:I figured it was because she was a small teenager with no superhuman abilities whatever (though she's really strong for a mere human) so it's like watching a pseudo-realistic beating... but it turns out it's about gender.

You sexist fucks!
She's 18 or 17 (aka basically adult) and she's one of the strongest humans, so that makes no sense. It's about bender. Even the fight between gohan and reccome doesn't get mentioned as much as this one as being brutal and gohan was 5 years old and got his neck broken.
A 5 year old that can destroy mountains with ease and move faster than the speed of sound. Videl can take on random thugs on the street and is a world-class athlete but she's no Z-Warrior.

I'm sure if it were Mr. Satan in that position... it'd be just as painful to watch.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

Post by baneofdemon22 » Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:18 am

Edit: I felt bad for saying that I felt the fight was hard too stomach because it was a girl getting beat up, and that was apparently sexist, so I wrote a whole spiel about how I think it's great for women to fight and used examples like the Bride from Kill Bill and Cassie Caine. All I meant was I don't like seeing women get hurt, and I don't think I should feel bad for that. I have OCD, and I don't want to obessive over this anymore, so I'm staying out of any of these types of conversations for now on. :lol:
Last edited by baneofdemon22 on Tue Dec 01, 2015 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

Post by DoomieDoomie911 » Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:04 am

rereboy wrote:It's just because she's a girl.

Our bias makes it look more brutal because we instinctively associate girl/women with being more helpless (physically) and being more peaceful (physically).

If it was Yamcha instead of Videl, or even a random male fighter, it would be exactly the same but nobody would think it was that special.
That, plus the fact that she's an ordinary person. If it had been a female Saiyan, or someone who was on par with some of the main characters, nobody would be as bothered by it. I don't think it's as much a male vs. female thing as it is a super strong person vs. ordinary person thing. It's a combination of the brutality of the fight and the fact that she wasn't nearly as strong as the other characters.
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Re: Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

Post by Gaffer Tape » Tue Dec 01, 2015 11:47 am

I would be more inclined to give the fight the benefit of the doubt that it's not because of her sex... except that the dialogue makes it explicitly about her sex. Gohan complains at one point that Spopovitch is not going easy on her even though she's a girl. By the way, I find that one of the stupidest lines in the entire series. What's the point in entering a co-ed martial arts tournament for the sake of winning if you're expected to go easier on certain opponents than others? At least when Namu did it, it was intrinsic to his character, and while that was most certainly societally-influenced, it wasn't related to the tournament.

Anyway, as for the question... no, I don't think in and of itself it's one of the most brutal fights. There are definitely more brutal fights. People get limbs ripped off. People get holes shot through them. The only difference is the effects are treated more realistically than normal for the sake of dramatic effect. As has been said, the most brutal part of this entire fight is when Videl breaks Spopovitch's neck so hard his head twists in the opposite direction, not anything he does to her! I don't agree with the argument that she's a "normal person." She's not. She's a premiere martial artist, at least on par with a lot of the stuff we saw in earlier tournaments, and she can freaking fly. She's not exactly a delicate flower here. And she had plenty of opportunities to concede and chose not to.
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Re: Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

Post by DoomieDoomie911 » Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:34 pm

Gaffer Tape wrote:I don't agree with the argument that she's a "normal person." She's not.
But you can't say that she's on the same level as many of the main characters. She's definitely stronger than your average person, but she's no Gokū, Gohan, or Piccolo. I would probably say (and I might be totally wrong on this) that she's somewhere between Mr. Satan and Yamcha in terms of strength.
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Re: Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

Post by NitroEX » Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:41 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:I figured it was because she was a small teenager with no superhuman abilities whatever (though she's really strong for a mere human) so it's like watching a pseudo-realistic beating... but it turns out it's about gender.

You sexist fucks!
Why can't it be both? And why is it sexist to acknowledge that humans have a built in, evolved instinct to protect women (the bearers of children) and not see them brutally beaten by a man who's physically stronger? If you would replace Videl's character with a male of equal strength and have the same beating take place the truth is that nobody would care as much. In order to get anywhere near the same effect emotionally you'd probably need to have him be beaten so brutally that he breaks an arm/leg, loses a limb or worse, death.

It's no accident that violence against women is treated as one of the worst crimes of any human society.
DBZAOTA482 wrote: I'm sure if it were Mr. Satan in that position... it'd be just as painful to watch.
No it wouldn't. At that point in the story Mr. Satan had not yet redeemed himself in the eyes of the viewer and was still seen as a lying fraud for taking credit for the Cell games. Having Spopovich brutalise him would 1) be played for comedy due to who he is and 2) would probably have been more of a gratifying experience for the audience than a horrifying one.

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Re: Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

Post by LuckyCat » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:31 pm

It's a brutal waste of potential. Here we're shown some pretty dramatic images, yet neither Gohan or Videl give any payback to Soppovich (or even Babidi). This whole scene is gratuitous violence for the sake of gratuitous violence. It could be completely removed and nothing would be lost from the story.
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Re: Is Videl Vs. Spopovitch one of the most brutal fights?

Post by rereboy » Tue Dec 01, 2015 1:39 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote: A 5 year old that can destroy mountains with ease and move faster than the speed of sound. Videl can take on random thugs on the street and is a world-class athlete but she's no Z-Warrior.

I'm sure if it were Mr. Satan in that position... it'd be just as painful to watch.
Your point would only be valid if she wasn't an actual professional fighter who is far from hopeless. But Videl is a professional fighter and far from helpless since she is somewhere in the top 20 or top 30 strongest humans in Dragon Ball. And her performance in the fight was also far from helpless. In comparison, Nail was WAY more helpless against Freeza and got way more wrecked, and yet this fight is more mentioned than Nail's fight.

Your whole argument is based merely on the fact that Gohan was even stronger than her. By that logic, Yamcha getting beat up by Tenshinhan in the 22nd tournament is way more brutal than Goku getting beat up by Vegeta in the Saiyan saga because Yamcha was way weaker. Does that make any sense? No, it does not, nor it does regarding Videl.

(Btw, regarding your "sexist" remark from your previous post... I believe that people that actually acknowledge the existence of gender bias in a society are far less sexist that the ones who refuse to even notice it).
DoomieDoomie911 wrote: That, plus the fact that she's an ordinary person. If it had been a female Saiyan, or someone who was on par with some of the main characters, nobody would be as bothered by it. I don't think it's as much a male vs. female thing as it is a super strong person vs. ordinary person thing. It's a combination of the brutality of the fight and the fact that she wasn't nearly as strong as the other characters.
She's a professional fighter who is somewhere in the top 20 or top 30 strongest human fighters in Dragon Ball. She's anything but ordinary. And her performance was also far from helpless, she would have killed her opponent if his body wasn't weird.

Like I said above, if it was merely about power, then Yamcha getting beat up would always be more brutal than Goku or another stronger fighter getting beat up. And it's not.

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