Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
In short, you aren't actually engaging and disagreeing with my actual points, you are just going around them adding arguments that are beside them but that allow you to continue the discussion and appear to actually be disagreeing with what I said, even though that is only happening on a surface level.
Was Videl that helpless agaisnt her opponent? No, she could fight him and almost killed him. Was he that much stronger than her? Not really.
This is your exact quote. To answer it AGAIN, she was helpless against him. She didn't almost kill him BECAUSE of the magically given endurance and almost indestructable body. Whether she was stronger than him is irrelevant. The kick did nothing to him, ergo it didn't ALMOST kill him. That's an important distinction. She was completely in over her head.
It seems like you are disagreeing with my point for the sake of it, behold the irony.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
Was it one of the most brutal? I'd say so. Maybe not the most brutal, but there is absolutely no denying that it's uncomfortable to watch given the context and how long it goes on for.
Last edited by Wezenheim on Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:48 am, edited 2 times in total.
Even as a kid the Dr. Gero impaling Yamcha scene never phased me, I have no idea why. Maybe its because I feel like we've seen Krillin get impaled by Freeza the arc before and he survived that, so I dunno. He's healed pretty quickly.
precita wrote:Even as a kid the Dr. Gero impaling Yamcha scene never phased me, I have no idea why. Maybe its because I feel like we've seen Krillin get impaled by Freeza the arc before and he survived that, so I dunno. He's healed pretty quickly.
Nothing in Dragon Ball really phased me, but the Yamcha impalement scene is probably one I'd classify as "horrifying".
As far as actual pain and brutality goes, Goku's fight with Piccolo in the World Tournament, as others have pointed out, was probably near if not at the top.
Last edited by Wezenheim on Sat Dec 05, 2015 1:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
These are my top 5 most brutal scenes in DBZ history:
1) When Vegeta got the living crap beat out of him against Frieza when he was in his final form. Vegeta lost all will to fight back and just gave up while Frieza brutally tortured him for several minutes while the others watched helplessly.
2) When Frieza impaled Krillin and brutally threw him on the water after several agonizing minutes of torture. I'll never forget when Frieza went "Yeehaw buckaroo ride em cowboy" while impaling Krillin.
3) When Videl got destroyed by Spopovitch.
4) When Vegeta ripped off Guldo's head and literally blasted him into bits.
5) The fight between Piccolo and Goku in Dragonball. There was a scene where Piccolo blasts Goku's chest, then he stands over him and savagely steps down hard into the wound while Goku screamed and Piccolo has a sadistic smirk on his face.
An honourable mention is when 18 broke Vegeta's arm.
The Videl fight is in my top 3. It was horrible. Spopovitch was just toying with her the whole time. It is one of the darker moments of DBZ. However, with that being said, I don't think the Videl fight was the most brutal. Videl was too stubborn to give up, while in my top most brutal scene Vegeta literally gave up and lost all hope. That was sad to watch, knowing he was powerless to stop the monster that killed his parents, his entire race, and his pride. That to me is far worse.
omaro34 wrote:These are my top 5 most brutal scenes in DBZ history:
1) When Vegeta got the living crap beat out of him against Freeza when he was in his final form. Vegeta lost all will to fight back and just gave up while Freeza brutally tortured him for several minutes while the others watched helplessly.
2) When Freeza impaled Krillin and brutally threw him on the water after several agonizing minutes of torture. I'll never forget when Freeza went "Yeehaw buckaroo ride em cowboy" while impaling Krillin.
3) When Videl got destroyed by Spopovitch.
4) When Vegeta ripped off Guldo's head and literally blasted him into bits.
5) The fight between Piccolo and Goku in Dragonball. There was a scene where Piccolo blasts Goku's chest, then he stands over him and savagely steps down hard into the wound while Goku screamed and Piccolo has a sadistic smirk on his face.
An honourable mention is when 18 broke Vegeta's arm.
The Videl fight is in my top 3. It was horrible. Spopovitch was just toying with her the whole time. It is one of the darker moments of DBZ. However, with that being said, I don't think the Videl fight was the most brutal. Videl was too stubborn to give up, while in my top most brutal scene Vegeta literally gave up and lost all hope. That was sad to watch, knowing he was powerless to stop the monster that killed his parents, his entire race, and his pride. That to me is far worse.
I would put Oozaru Vegeta crushing Goku for an episode above 1, 2, and 4 on your list. That was rough.
omaro34 wrote:These are my top 5 most brutal scenes in DBZ history:
1) When Vegeta got the living crap beat out of him against Freeza when he was in his final form. Vegeta lost all will to fight back and just gave up while Freeza brutally tortured him for several minutes while the others watched helplessly.
2) When Freeza impaled Krillin and brutally threw him on the water after several agonizing minutes of torture. I'll never forget when Freeza went "Yeehaw buckaroo ride em cowboy" while impaling Krillin.
3) When Videl got destroyed by Spopovitch.
4) When Vegeta ripped off Guldo's head and literally blasted him into bits.
5) The fight between Piccolo and Goku in Dragonball. There was a scene where Piccolo blasts Goku's chest, then he stands over him and savagely steps down hard into the wound while Goku screamed and Piccolo has a sadistic smirk on his face.
An honourable mention is when 18 broke Vegeta's arm.
The Videl fight is in my top 3. It was horrible. Spopovitch was just toying with her the whole time. It is one of the darker moments of DBZ. However, with that being said, I don't think the Videl fight was the most brutal. Videl was too stubborn to give up, while in my top most brutal scene Vegeta literally gave up and lost all hope. That was sad to watch, knowing he was powerless to stop the monster that killed his parents, his entire race, and his pride. That to me is far worse.
I would put Oozaru Vegeta crushing Goku for an episode above 1, 2, and 4 on your list. That was rough.
Oh yeah. Its been a long while since I watched the Saiyan saga. I would also put your suggestion on as number 2. My number 1 is there simply because of the circumstances of the scene. Vegeta truly believed he was a Super Saiyan, then he realized he was no match for the monster that took away his childhood and everyone he ever knew in his home planet. I do recall him literally giving up in tears. After all that training and serving Frieza all those years he never got the chance. He was ultimately killed after he pour his heart out to Goku.
I also remember Vegeta's first fight with monster form Zarbon on Namek. That fight was filled with brutal head smashes and some nasty takedowns.
People saying that it's the most brutal because she is a female is incorrect. It's brutal because Videl is a normal human female while Spopovitch was brainwashed by Babidi and it gave him more power. Had it been a normal human male in place of Videl, it would gain the same reaction.
its brutal because of who she is,not cos of her gender.
I saw ssj trunks kill android 18 and all i did was smile,didnt feel anything for her.because she was evil there and i thought she deserved it.
Videl on the other hand,is a good person and is also a normal human and isnt used to being beaten so.I think this might be her first time she is beaten up this badly.
For everyone else,well all got their butts handed to them at some point so its basically normal seeing vegeta crawl on the ground,krillin yamcha goku piccolo gohan etc.
So from that point of view yes this is the most brutal dbz fight.Ofc there is also vegeta vs freeza,that was also pretty durable.
I think its also weird because at that point of the series the audience has only known Videl for a very short time. Especially in the manga where all those extra Saiyaman episodes didn't exist and Videl's screentime is even shorter.
We're introduced to this girl who is blatantly Gohan's love interest from the start and we watch her get beaten to an inch of her life by this hulking man with huge muscles. Its like, why did Toriyama introduce this new character to see her ravaged?
It's all about presentation. Yamcha getting an arm shoved through him, Tenshinhan losing a hand to Nappa, etc. don't register as being as brutal as either Videl vs. Spopovitch or the end of Goku vs. Piccolo because the series doesn't linger in their pain or the violence. Both of the latter two I mentioned are harder to read/watch because of the way they're presented tonally, and in the case of Videl because it's more grounded than the high-flying superhuman action the series has long been employing by that point; seeing a relatively plausible beat-down registers as really upsetting in comparison because the fantasy is gone.
I also disagree that it's about gender, because if you showed me these panels with, say, Yamcha, I'd still be like, "What the f*ck, dude":
Spoiler:
That fifth panel is not the series' usual approach to violence.
Cipher wrote:It's all about presentation. Yamcha getting an arm shoved through him, Tenshinhan losing a hand to Nappa, etc. don't register as being as brutal as either Videl vs. Spopovitch or the end of Goku vs. Piccolo because the series doesn't linger in their pain or the violence. Both of the latter two I mentioned are harder to read/watch because of the way they're presented tonally, and in the case of Videl because it's more grounded than the high-flying superhuman action the series has long been employing by that point; seeing a relatively plausible beat-down registers as really upsetting in comparison because the fantasy is gone.
I also disagree that it's about gender, because if you showed me these panels with, say, Yamcha, I'd still be like, "What the f*ck, dude":
Spoiler:
That fifth panel is not the series' usual approach to violence.
I feel like Videl vs. Spopovitch is very much unnecessarily brutal. When a character gets beaten down by someone that badly in that sort of context, it usually amounts to something. I dont think I quite understand what Toriyama was trying to accomplish here beyond shock value. Perhaps there was an intended Gohan vs. Spopovitch interaction that was scrapped later? I dunno.
Last edited by Wezenheim on Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
precita wrote:I wonder why the anime didn't show Videl's teeth get knocked out like the manga. Perhaps TOEI thought it went too far?
Doesn't surprise me Toei edited out Videl get her teeth broken and knocked out. Even back then there were still restrictions with what shonen anime could get away with in terms of mature content. You'd be surprised how much mature content was edited or flat out not animated from the manga.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
How was Buu killing Babidi shown in the manga? In the anime they show him punch Babidi's face but the scene is shown in a still frame with a big red splash in front of his head...so you don't actually see him being punched in the face.
I think there was a splash of blood, and then after that there's a pretty grotesque shot of his body without a head. There might still be his jaw, but that's it.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
The fight is drawn and paced pornographically. I don't mean that in a judgmental way: I mean it's literally got the tone of something you'd see in S&M. Videl won't say the safe word, and Spopovich nearly murders her.
Vegeta's usually the one taking the pornographic beatings, especially in the anime, so Toriyama is, uh, obviously not above sharing fantasies of shattering a man's body as he sheds tears. And the few other female fighters never get brutalized the way Videl does: even 18's quasi-rape by Cell is treated as briefly as her brother's. But Videl being a young woman unknowingly out of her league obviously colors viewer reaction to her beating, just as it probably influenced Toriyama and Toei to animate it as they did.
With the way Spopovitch was punching Videl in the stomach over and over I'm surprised she was still able to give birth to Pan after that. Imagine if she didn't eat a senzu bean?
