So why is it okay for "x" to come back instead of "y"?

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So why is it okay for "x" to come back instead of "y"?

Post by EXBadguy » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:23 pm

I assume most of yall know what I'm talking about?

So to the ones who have this mindset, why were you excited for Frieza to return while you roll your eyes when you see other villains return? Why is it okay to have Frieza come back for a saga just to be killed again while it ain't okay for most famous villains, including the "B" word, which can be done by just fixing his character and explore more into his past? And I'm looking for a better reason than "cuz Frieza's the most popular villain" or "He's canon" or "to just look into his history more", cuz that can be done for most villains who weren't fleshed out well.

I'm only asking. I'm not here to shame anyone.
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Re: So why is it okay for "x" to come back instead of "y"?

Post by Doctor. » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:26 pm

Because most "villain comes back" story lines are simple and straight to the point. They're not creative, they don't try anything new, they most of the time don't explore the character's past any more or add any more depth, and sometimes enough is just enough (Broly already had 3 films). They just suck, if no effort is put into them and they're just used as a nostalgia-inducing tool to grab some more cash... y'know, like F.

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Re: So why is it okay for "x" to come back instead of "y"?

Post by Bullza » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:29 pm

It worked for Frieza because yes he is the most popular villain (or it's Broly) but on top of that he is also the most iconic Dragon Ball villain, the villain who has had the most impact on the series, the overall best villain and the villain that chronologically we hadn't seen in the longest amount of time.

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Re: So why is it okay for "x" to come back instead of "y"?

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:31 pm

EXBadguy wrote:I assume most of yall know what I'm talking about?

So to the ones who have this mindset, why were you excited for Freeza to return while you roll your eyes when you see other villains return? Why is it okay to have Freeza come back for a saga just to be killed again while it ain't okay for most famous villains, including the "B" word, which can be done by just fixing his character and explore more into his past? And I'm looking for a better reason than "cuz Freeza's the most popular villain" or "He's canon" or "to just look into his history more", cuz that can be done for most villains who weren't fleshed out well.

I'm only asking. I'm not here to shame anyone.
You already got the answer(s) you were looking for in said prior thread. The way I read your post here comes across as "please validate that I want Broli to return".

Like what you like and wear it on your sleeve. You don't need the validation.
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Re: So why is it okay for "x" to come back instead of "y"?

Post by EXBadguy » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:36 pm

Doctor. wrote:Because most "villain comes back" story lines are simple and straight to the point. They're not creative, they don't try anything new, they most of the time don't explore the character's past any more or add any more depth, and sometimes enough is just enough (Broly already had 3 films). They just suck, if no effort is put into them and they're just used as a nostalgia-inducing tool to grab some more cash... y'know, like F.
So if Frieza came back for a third time for one more saga with nothing to be explored, how would you feel?
VegettoEX wrote: You already got the answer(s) you were looking for in said prior thread. The way I read your post here comes across as "please validate that I want Broli to return".

Like what you like and wear it on your sleeve. You don't need the validation.
Fine, you got me, but this ain't only about that. I'm also talking about the outrage I've seen when villains like Cooler and #17 came back as main baddies only to be killed again. And I'm talking about Franchise-wise, not canon-wise.
Akira Toriyama wrote:If anyone. ANYONE AT TOEI! Makes a movie about old and weak major villains returning, or making recolored versions of Super Saiyan, I'ma come to yo company and evict you from doing Dragon Ball ever again! Only I do those things, because people love me, and they despise you....derp!
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Re: So why is it okay for "x" to come back instead of "y"?

Post by Doctor. » Tue Dec 01, 2015 2:40 pm

EXBadguy wrote:So if Freeza came back for a third time for one more saga with nothing to be explored, how would you feel?
It'd be exactly like F and, just like F, it'd be terrible if they do nothing of worth with the character. Mecha Freeza's comeback works because it does something with the story, it sets up Trunks and the next arc.

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Re: So why is it okay for "x" to come back instead of "y"?

Post by baneofdemon22 » Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:08 pm

I think it's a cool topic.

For me, I'm okay with the Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan transformation over the Super Saiyan 4 transformation simply because I saw the blond SSJ hair as the characters bursting with energy, and it lights up their hair. That energy can be any color. Some people think it's just as ludicrous as SSJ4 and we're just Toriyama fanboys if we like it and not SSJ4, but I disagree. I don't see any logic to the color of the SSJ4's hair, eye, and color, or clothing powers. Also I don't understand why Vegeta has brown hair and SSJ4 Gogeta has red hair. I can convince myself that the form brings a Saiyan to the best body for fighting like Kid Goku turning into an adult, but that's about it.

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Re: So why is it okay for "x" to come back instead of "y"?

Post by Lord Beerus » Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:34 pm

The only villain that logically be brought was Freeza because in-universe it made sense as he still had an empire of thousands of loyal soldiers by the time he died. So it was honestly only going to be a matter of time before his empire went down the shitter without it's influential ruler and his most loyal followers would resort to bringing him back to life.

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Re: So why is it okay for "x" to come back instead of "y"?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:54 pm

Doctor. wrote:Because most "villain comes back" story lines are simple and straight to the point. They're not creative, they don't try anything new, they most of the time don't explore the character's past any more or add any more depth, and sometimes enough is just enough (Broly already had 3 films). They just suck, if no effort is put into them and they're just used as a nostalgia-inducing tool to grab some more cash... y'know, like F.
That has nothing to do with the villains returning though. A story with a new villain can lack creativity and suck too. Just look at 90% of the Toei movies and Xenoverse. =P
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Re: So why is it okay for "x" to come back instead of "y"?

Post by successoroffate » Tue Dec 01, 2015 7:46 pm

To be honest, I don't mind who ever comes back. But Freeza was the only "in Universe" viable villain. Most recognizable, Canon and of course with a huge fan base.

Don't get me wrong. I enjoyed all the Broly movies, he's a very intriguing character. But if you think about the direction TOEI and Toriyama were going when they made BoG and started with Super, then Broly would only bring more plotholes to the newly created timeline that already is making people give Super the weird eye.
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Re: So why is it okay for "x" to come back instead of "y"?

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Tue Dec 01, 2015 10:46 pm

For me, it's a matter about who makes the most sense to come back (though Freeza being one of my favorite villains admittedly makes him a bit easier to take as well). Boo wouldn't really work well since we've already got Oob, as well as him having just been the villain in the last 'canon' arc we had prior to all of the new stuff starting. Dabura would be an interesting case to see utilized more properly, especially to see what he was maybe like when not under Babidi's control. Cell is a non-entity as far as the universe at large is, so outside of 'Gero had another relative who wishes him back/makes a new one' or 'the current timeline's Cell survived Kuririn and Trunks' attacks', it's not really that feasible to bring him back either. 17, 18, and 16 all turned good after their arcs were done, so not really a threat there (outside of what Super 17 did, I guess). Dr. Gero/20 would be interesting, depending on how it was done, I guess, though again, who would resurrect him at this point? King Cold would definitely have been interesting to see come back and I kind of wish he had alongside his son. Outside of Ginyu maybe (who Super is now working with), none of Freeza's men really have enough appeal to come back as an arc of their own. Same goes for Nappa. Raditz...Raditz would definitely be an interesting case, depending on how it was done. Piccolo turned good (though admittedly I'd be curious to see how some kind of returned Daimao arc would work - again, depending on how it was done). Crane and Tao I've said before would be interesting to see return somehow (though apparently them stating they would doesn't actually happen in the Japanese version). The Red Ribbon already symbolically comes back wit the Android stuff. We've gotten the Pilaf gang back and they're much the same as before.

So long story short, Freeza was really the most 'recent' person that also had a mass following that they could bring back and make it work feasibly well. I mean, as much as people are upset at the idea of Freeza growing as much stronger as he has, just imagine the outcry if it'd been Raditz instead.
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Re: So why is it okay for "x" to come back instead of "y"?

Post by Vijay » Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:17 am

Frieza was, is, will always be mediocre villain

He was obsolete once SSJ came, & Gold Frieza is no different

At least guys like Cell, Buu, Broly, Janemba gave me the pleasure of watching OP'd maniacs doing hilariously ridiculous, yet creepy af!

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Re: So why is it okay for "x" to come back instead of "y"?

Post by kei17 » Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:17 am

EXBadguy wrote:And I'm looking for a better reason than "cuz Freeza's the most popular villain" or "He's canon" or "to just look into his history more"
Why do you need any more reasons though you admit that Freeza is the most popular villain in the franchise? That answers your question. What's the point of this thread?

Personally I don't like the idea of bringing back old villains in general, though.

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Re: So why is it okay for "x" to come back instead of "y"?

Post by MajinMan » Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:41 am

Vijay wrote:Freeza was, is, will always be mediocre villain

He was obsolete once SSJ came, & Gold Freeza is no different

At least guys like Cell, Buu, Broly, Janemba gave me the pleasure of watching OP'd maniacs doing hilariously ridiculous, yet creepy af!
Are you saying that Freeza wasn't ridiculously OP when he was introduced? I don't understand your reasoning.
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Re: So why is it okay for "x" to come back instead of "y"?

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:06 am

MajinMan wrote:
Vijay wrote:Freeza was, is, will always be mediocre villain

He was obsolete once SSJ came, & Gold Freeza is no different

At least guys like Cell, Buu, Broly, Janemba gave me the pleasure of watching OP'd maniacs doing hilariously ridiculous, yet creepy af!
Are you saying that Freeza wasn't ridiculously OP when he was introduced? I don't understand your reasoning.
I was wondering about that too...heck, I'd argue Freeza was even more OP, at least than Cell. Cell had to run around in the shadows for a while, and then play on Vegeta's arrogance, to reach his Perfect form. Freeza always had his full power at his disposal, and just let more and more of it out to screw with our heroes.

Boo was probably more though, considering how ridiculously resilient he is, and not one, not two, but three new power up tactics to beat him (Super Saiyan 3, Fusion, Ultimate Gohan) all failed for one reason or another.
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Re: So why is it okay for "x" to come back instead of "y"?

Post by Cetra » Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:25 am

I think Boo coming back from Oob's soul not being totally cleansed or whatever would be way better than what happens with Freeza all the time.
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