Is the series only meant merely as an ad/commercial..?

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Araki
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Re: Is the series only meant merely as an ad/commercial..?

Post by Araki » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:04 pm

Basaku wrote:
Araki wrote:Tv anime IS a long commercial. That's the truth, sorry but they don't do it for art reasons.
That's a generalization.

Let's get first thing out of the way - EVERYONE in the world sans very few wants to earn money, lots of it. And there is nothing wrong with it, we all want a good living. The main difference between people is between those who are passionate about their chosen way of earning money and those who are not. Those who do something just as much for artistic/idealistic/passion reason as much as the desire to earn for their living and those who perform their jobs, often competently, but have no genuine interest or passion about it.

When it comes to current Toei executive team, it appears very much that they don't really care a lot for the art of animation and storytelling, spreading the company's financial resources too thin which negatively impacts all of the creative teams involved, hoping they can have as many 'ads' for toys running simultaneously as possible. This doesn't mean it will be like this forever or that every CEO/exec at various anime companies in Japan was, is or will be the same.
I'm not talking about specifics - whether a scene is drawn by an animator who's doing his dream job or some jaded old man who does it for the money, ultimately that doesn't matter: if the anime is airing on tv, it's a commercial expecting some sort of profit. There's no escape from it.
Btw, Toei isn't even known for those heavily toy-driven animes like Pokemon or Yokai Watch..the exception would be Precure or Digimon.

Besides, i doubt you'd find an anime where every single person behind the project is passionate about it. There'll always be someone who is only after the money.
Last edited by Araki on Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Basaku
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Re: Is the series only meant merely as an ad/commercial..?

Post by Basaku » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:10 pm

Araki wrote: I'm not talking about specifics - whether a scene is drawn by an animator who's doing his dream job or some jaded old man who does it for the money, ultimately that doesn't matter: if the anime is airing on tv, it's a commercial expecting some sort of profit. There's no escape from it.

Besides, i doubt you'd find an anime where every single person behind the project is passionate about it. There'll always be someone who is only after the money.
Of course some are only in it for the money, as in every other industry. But most are passionate about their jobs not just from financial perspective. Would you say the current Disney execs don't care about quality? Obviously they're thinking "how much more money can we make this year and how many plastic Han Solos we will sell" every day, but it's also clear they care for the quality of their output. At least most of them which is enough.

Even if some project is 'born'/exists only out of pure commercial reasons, it doesn't mean it has to be inherently worse or should be excused if it doesn't deliver on an artistic level.
Last edited by Basaku on Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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GodVegetto91
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Re: Is the series only meant merely as an ad/commercial..?

Post by GodVegetto91 » Tue Dec 22, 2015 8:13 pm

So i guess we all agree on it right??
Guess that settles that.
I personally have no problems with the animation.. Even episode 24. It was NOWHERE NEAR as bad as episode 5 imo. (Which was the only one i had some problems with)

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Re: Is the series only meant merely as an ad/commercial..?

Post by irreality » Wed Dec 23, 2015 12:06 pm

When I see such questions, I always ask: who is the client, and who is the product?

For the Dragon Ball anime (*not* the original manga), dear reader, the *sponsors* are the client. They are paying for the series, and always have. The viewers are not -- at least in Japan, sales of box sets would never pay for the animation of any long-running series, not even close. Tangentially, foreign licensors are another client, but the primary direct client are the sponsors.

What do sponsors want for their money? They want to sell what they sell. It will be different for different products. Namco Bandai wants to sell toys, while maruchan wants to sell soup, and Shueisha wants to sell magazines. So some sponsors are more interested in making beloved characters that you associate warmly with their product, other with exciting action, others that keep you intrigued in the story. Toei, with that in mind, tries to make an anime that hits those sorts of milestones. Will Super being the most beautiful anime ever help the sponsors? Not really. Some glitz and glam in fight scenes helps toy sales, but as long as the character designs and transformations are cool, it probably is sufficient. It shouldn't look *horrible* (nobody meant for episode 5 to look so bad)-- people need to form warm associations to the product for it to benefit sponsors, and they do get some money from sales, but it is not being sold primarily for being spotless aesthetically.

Who/what is the product, then? You are! (or at least the Japanese audience, is, right now, for Super) Your nice eyeballs on the product are what the sponsors want for the money, and your willingness to buy things. Ratings themselves are not necessarily what they are after -- but keeping you engaged in what happens next, having you invested for longer, building an ongoing relationship to the series. Having things over and done with in 13 episodes so you can move on to the next show is not what they are after. They don't need you to love the animation and the tight paced story so much you go out and buy it because *you are not the client.* You are the product.

So yes, in that way, DBS (and all DB anime) is an "advertisement". But that is too simplistic. It is just that you aren't paying for the series, and athough the series is made for you to watch, it is not paid by you. It is paid by someone who wants specific results from you watching it -- slightly different than the results one wants from a commercial, which are directly "go buy this", since this is not Pokemon -- but they want you to do or feel something from watching it, in a way. Namely, buy toys and soup because your beloved characters feature in those products, and stay engaged in the story long-term.

ETA: the question, whether it is made for profit, doesn't enter into this. All major commercial enterprises are for profit. The issue is who is paying whom for what -- that determines what the product is. The sponsors pay Toei. Viewers pay the sponsors. The financial dynamics of a movie are different, and thus the product is different.

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Re: Is the series only meant merely as an ad/commercial..?

Post by sintzu » Thu Dec 24, 2015 6:04 am

Araki wrote:Tv anime IS a long commercial. That's the truth, sorry but they don't do it for art reasons. It was this way back then, before GT, it's the same way now. If it's airing, it has the purpose to sell something.
Everything that's made by a company is made to sell but that doesn't mean the people working on them don't care about their product.

How can you tell if they care ? by their quality, sure DB&Z were flawed but no one can say the people behind them didn't put effort into making them which means they cared about what they were putting out and about their reputation as workers.
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