Official "Dragon Box: The Movies" Thread

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

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MajinVejitaXV
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Post by MajinVejitaXV » Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:10 am

kamil88 wrote:All right but one Main question
1.Does the item worth the price?
2.If there are Bardock Special and History of Trunks?
I take it you mean the DragonBoxes. Here's my take.

If you can get them for a reasonable price, they're worth it. I got them all as preorders, and paid probably $3000 USD for the entire series (DragonBall, Z, GT and the movies). No regrets whatsoever here.

The big stumbling block, of course, is langauge. I don't know Japanese enough to understand everything yet, but it's actually helping me learn. Also, we are talking DragonBall here, not Serial Experiments Lain ;p

And yes, if you get the 'Z' DragonBoxes, Bardock is on the first and Trunks is on the second.

-Corey

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Post by kamil88 » Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:12 am

Ok,maybe i`ll buy DragonBox the Movies but,how can i pay in amazon.co.jp.Are they other methods to buy it?

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Post by b_boult » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:30 pm

In response to your concern over my Dragonbox Ebay purchase which could obviously be a scam, he took a picture of the entire packaging on his bed, like the Daizex Dragonbox page, and also, he specifically sold it as having "no subtitles" and called them "region 2 DVD's". Anyway we'll see won't we I'm paying for them tonight and it should take a week to ship, I'll post all about it when they come if you like.

On a further note I then stalked him on Ebay and he's selling a few other anime DVD's too, and some Anime cards or something I forget, and seems pretty legitimate.

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Post by Tsukento » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:45 pm

b_boult wrote:In response to your concern over my Dragonbox Ebay purchase which could obviously be a scam, he took a picture of the entire packaging on his bed, like the Daizex Dragonbox page, and also, he specifically sold it as having "no subtitles" and called them "region 2 DVD's". Anyway we'll see won't we I'm paying for them tonight and it should take a week to ship, I'll post all about it when they come if you like.

On a further note I then stalked him on Ebay and he's selling a few other anime DVD's too, and some Anime cards or something I forget, and seems pretty legitimate.
But is his history showing that he's a legit seller? I had a similar story where a guy was selling his two Z Dragon Boxes together while selling all sorts of other anime boxsets. Came with everything. I won the auction for $227.50. Just to be sure before sending any money, I constantly asked the guy for new pictures just to confirm he had it. Sure enough, he unregistered his eBay account and never responded to his e-mails. Pretty sure the people who did bid on his stuff got screwed out of their money. :\

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Post by b_boult » Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:46 pm

I've had loads of correspondence with this guy so it should be fine, but like I said we'll see!

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Post by Amiable-Akuma » Tue Apr 18, 2006 2:59 pm

Hi, everyone - I'm enjoying this feature/thread. Got the Movie Box myself not long ago and, like most of you, was just totally blown away by it's quality overall. I own two other Dragon Boxes as well.

However, now that we all actually have the thing and are watching it finally, - I'd like to discuss here sort of your final opinions on the "JPN Widescreen vs US Fullscreen" debate as it pertains to the movies.

What I'd like to hear mainly - is just what your honest opinions are of which you think is better, why, and which version you will consider the definitive one that you will watch for the rest of your life...?

I really curious to hear what you have to say because frankly, I have all the US movies and this JPN Movie Box -- but I'm still on this fence as to which I think is better. And I really need to decide because I don't want to end up always watching/owning both versions, especially for trivial reasons. So I need you guys' opinions and knowledge on the subject to convince me one way or the other.

It's tough to decide for me because of the following (my perceived) positives/negatives for the two:

~US DVD Movies~
+Fullscreen style, features roughly 30% more viewing area/animation (and now that I've been able to easily compare the two, I see that sometimes "valuable" parts of the picture ARE lost in the cropping...but usually what's lost is negligible. So...)
+What's lost is typically worth seeing or cool to see - however, only truly so, about 30% of the time
-Though not bad by any means, the picture quality is significantly worse than the JPN transfers
-Fullscreen format means that on a HD-widescreen TV (which everybody should have already, if not soon) there will be black space on either side of the frame and that if you stretch it to fit it wll be distorted some

~JPN DVD Movies~
+Picture Quality that will likely be the definitive transfer for several years
+On a HD-widescreen TV, the movies will fit across the entire screen neatly (if you set your gear to "Widescreen" viewing modes)
+The letterboxed style is how the movies were originally presented and/or truly intended, so most often (I'd say at least 70% of the time) little is lost with the widescreen format
-Widescreen style loses roughly 30% of the viewing area and original animation that was drawn
-A solid portion of what's lost (say 30%) IS cool to see
-Adding subtitles (like many of us will eventually do) will further obscure an already cropped picture frame

Now beyond that, I guess I could merge the two using my PC and video-editing programs - but that would be dumb and/or a waste of time, right? What do you think? I mean the quality would be off at the top and bottom and it may take more work than it does good. Or do you think that's actually a good solution?

Anwyay...Please, let me hear your current take on the issue - I need opinions!

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Post by MajinVejitaXV » Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:39 pm

It's a good question. I personally am a huge whore when it comes to getting the most complete version of something, so the whole letterbox (though it's actually widescreen, silly interchanging not interchangable terms) thing had me kind of worried.

Now, I saw the movies initially via fansubs mastered from the laserdiscs and VHS releases from Japan. Those, of course, were 16:9 releases. Then, I bought a few of the FUNi releases (soon to be sold here, BTW). Now...yikes. Look at the picture of Gojita in this thread for an accurate representation. I appreciated the discs when they were the only solution, but now, I can't even watch those things. I'm actually going to take the first 3 Pioneer discs, rip the audio, and synch it to the DragonBox versions of DBZ movies 1-3 so I can have good quality Ocean Group DBZ.

To go in a similar manner to you, here's my list:

FUNimation Region 1 Discs:

+Original Aspect Ratio: This is perhaps the only time the US gets something more than Japan. Granted, most of the time it's not anything major, but it's definitely a difference in the two releases.
+English Subtitles: Daimao is King (though that is a bit redundant, no? ;p)
-Low Bitrate: Come on, if you're gonna put a 40-80 minute feature on a disc with little or no extras, at least apply the smallest amount of compression possible. Plus, put it on an HD display and you may as well be watching a DaBlackGoku bootleg.
-Quality Checking: With "Cell defeating Cell", subtitles appearing at the top of the screen and various other little bugs, it's a wonder anyone can tell what's going on any better than if they watched the show in raw Japanese.
-Age of Masters: Not really FUNi's fault, but the masters they have are crap anyway.
-Application of Filters: Making everything REALLY sharp and making Goku's gi so orange it burns my eyes DOESN'T hide the age of the source material.

Toei DragonBox Region 2 Discs:

+Brand New Transfer: Sexy as hell. How you can not look at this and drool is beyond me (assuming you like Toriyama/Toei's style to begin with).
+High Bitrate and Progressive: Two features per disc, with little compression and in progressive format. A video lover's wet-dream and something that will look good on someone's 19" SD Toshiba and orgasmic on my 43" HD Pioneer Elite.
+Audio: Okay, aside from the US releases having a few glitches and the Japanese releases sounding a bit cleaner, there was no real major difference in the US vs. JP TV boxes...here, I notice a definite change. I dunno if it remixed to stereo, or if it just is a prestine mono, but it sounds GREAT.
+Original Theatrical Aspect Ratio: While not the way animated, it's the way Toei intended for it to be. On the big screen and on laserdisc/VHS, it's always been 16:9 or 4:3LB.
-Original Theatrical Aspect Ratio: Yes, you miss out on the top of Goku's head occasionally, or Garlic Jr's eyebrow, but to be honest I'm not crying over it. The pluses WAY outweigh the cons in this area.

In the end, I won't be keeping any US releases save for the first 3 movies, and that's just for nostalgia's sake. I may even pick up the first 2 seasons edited to hear Drummond and Co. again some day, but for now and probably forever, this is the definitive DragonBall set.

As for merging the two versions, I'd recommend against it. It would be a huge pain. Like I said though, I plan on merging the English soundtrack from Movie 1-3 on DVD-R with the DragonBox footage of movies 1-3 for nostalgia's sake (and because the 2 should almost exactly synch up).

-Corey

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Post by _Jrinu_ » Tue Apr 18, 2006 4:34 pm

Sweet!!

I just ordered mine and it will be here in 3-4 days!!

NICE!
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Post by Amiable-Akuma » Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:00 pm

MajinVejitaXV...wow, that was one hell of a reply you did. Thanks.

And I agree with/appreciate everything you said.

After reading some of your replies - it seems like you and I both are a bunch of home theater enthusiast wackos. That's good. Yeah, I too panicked like a true elitist nut when I heard the Toei discs would remain letterboxed. I'm such a whore for complete versions that often I'm triple-dipping and going to dvdcompare.net to make sure I have the best of one particular DVD even if I have to order it from some uncharted region of the planet.

I first saw the show in letterboxed fansubs myself - but because of my sort of "HD fever" I was too lost to acknowledge the nostalgia there. And to be honest, I own/owned all of the entire series on Fansubbed VHS but I've only watched each tape maybe once. Once the series started coming out on DVD, I was patient enough (meaning I violently went out and bought every other thing I thought could occupy my time in the mean time) to wait before I starting watching them again.

You bring up some good points.

Audio! I forgot about that. That's a big advantage of the Toei movies. I love how great the sound on the Dragonboxes is - and maybe I'm crazy, but to my ear it's just a really huge improvement over what Funi has. Funi JPN audio tracks are so bad that if you listen with headphones they become unwatchable due to the audible and very loud "hiss" in the background. I play the Toei discs using the "All Channel" setting on my receiver/7.1 speakers and it's the coolest thing ever.

What you said about quality checking also shocked me as that was something I did not know. Wow, what a case for me to be timing my own subs (again, it's something that I would do no matter what anyway)! I'm sure it's not always that bad but now that I'm doing it myself with the Toei discs I know I'll get what I want.

Finally, man, it's been a while since I've heard the Ocean Group you're so fond of. I sold or lost my original three DBZ movie DVDs long ago. I'll have to check them out again just to remember what they sound like. Naturally, I hate the current cast...but is the Ocean Group really that good or do you just like their voices/tracks for nostalgia reasons?

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Post by Blitzen » Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:53 pm

My take on the 16:9 vs. 4:3 is that if watching on a widescreen TV, is that well, anything you lose was meant to be lost, and really wasn't important. Once again, tip of an eyebrow, tip of the head, but nothing drastically important. A few times it does look a bit cramped, but on fullscreen, you've lost part of the "movie" feel, and there are quite a few shots designated for widescreen that just have a LOT of space to them.

Overall, I'll be trying to get the English audio for the FUNimation versions for some movies, because I have relatives who like it (and it all can be synched up and what not), but apart from that, I'm with MajinVegitaXV in that this is the definitive version of the movies.

THere is only one other concern I have in regards to the Dragonball/Z/GT TV DVD releases, and that's if the respective TV specials are released at some point. I could understand if they werent, but then again, I'd like them all the same.

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Post by MajinVejitaXV » Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:59 pm

Blitzen wrote:THere is only one other concern I have in regards to the Dragonball/Z/GT TV DVD releases, and that's if the respective TV specials are released at some point. I could understand if they werent, but then again, I'd like them all the same.
What do you mean? The DragonBoxes had the TV specials with their respective series (Bardock was on DragonBox Z Vol. 1, Trunks on Z Vol. 2 and the GT Special was on the GT box), and the US releases have been out forever.

-Corey

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Post by Blitzen » Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:34 pm

MajinVejitaXV wrote:
Blitzen wrote:THere is only one other concern I have in regards to the Dragonball/Z/GT TV DVD releases, and that's if the respective TV specials are released at some point. I could understand if they werent, but then again, I'd like them all the same.
What do you mean? The DragonBoxes had the TV specials with their respective series (Bardock was on DragonBox Z Vol. 1, Trunks on Z Vol. 2 and the GT Special was on the GT box), and the US releases have been out forever.

-Corey
Oh, I apologize, I was refering to the individual Region 2 releases that are being put out now.

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Post by DBW » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:20 am

MajinVejitaXV wrote:+Audio: Okay, aside from the US releases having a few glitches and the Japanese releases sounding a bit cleaner, there was no real major difference in the US vs. JP TV boxes...here, I notice a definite change. I dunno if it remixed to stereo, or if it just is a prestine mono, but it sounds GREAT.
Yeah, there's definately something up with the audio in this release. The only other time I've heard the voices and music so clearly was in the GT TV Special, which was in stereo. Usually when I watch DB I keep it kinda low since the mono can sound pretty nasty if played too loud, but I've been blasting all the movies at full volume so far and it sounds consistantly amazing!

I've also noticed that the sound effects are coming through much clearer (some you can barely make out on FUNi's disks) and there seems to be a better sense of SFX levels as well. Whereas everything comes off as being flat on the FUNi/Pioneer disks, the audio is better balanced here (ie. something in the distance actually sounds distant, while something close-up will actually sound like it's close to you). Ironically, I used to actually hate watching the Japanese version on the Pioneer disks since it sounded flat and crappy, whereas the dub audio was much more alive and vibrant. But this new Dragon Box release knocks the Pioneer dub right on it's ass! Sweet ^_^

EDIT:
Oh yeah, and I was a little bummed when I first heard about the whole letterbox thing, but honestly, when I'm watching the movies I don't even notice. If you're actually enjoying the movies you likely won't be thinking "hmm, I wonder what Goku's foot looks like under that bar...". Besides, as we all know, the movies were intended to be seen in 16:9 and were animated with the letterboxing in mind (in other words, the animators didn't put anything under those bars that you need to see).
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Post by lost in thought » Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:33 am

Well, DBW, you've successfully taken every good bit of audio related praise I could have offered this release, and summed it up more eloquently than I probably would have.

I whole heartedly agree with your response, as far as possible, with only one slight derivation on the point: I don't mind the Pioneer disc audio. Otherwise, as a whole, I agree in every way.

So, DBW, you enjoying the box as much as I am? 8)

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Post by MajinVejitaXV » Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:53 am

Amiable-Akuma wrote:MajinVejitaXV...wow, that was one hell of a reply you did. Thanks.

And I agree with/appreciate everything you said.

After reading some of your replies - it seems like you and I both are a bunch of home theater enthusiast wackos. That's good. Yeah, I too panicked like a true elitist nut when I heard the Toei discs would remain letterboxed. I'm such a whore for complete versions that often I'm triple-dipping and going to dvdcompare.net to make sure I have the best of one particular DVD even if I have to order it from some uncharted region of the planet.
Yeah, I find myself waiting these days if I hear anything about a special edition down the line with a 'more complete' version. Damn studios...at least Peter Jackson and New Line were upfront about it...
You bring up some good points.

Audio! I forgot about that. That's a big advantage of the Toei movies. I love how great the sound on the Dragonboxes is - and maybe I'm crazy, but to my ear it's just a really huge improvement over what Funi has. Funi JPN audio tracks are so bad that if you listen with headphones they become unwatchable due to the audible and very loud "hiss" in the background. I play the Toei discs using the "All Channel" setting on my receiver/7.1 speakers and it's the coolest thing ever.
I live in an apartment, so I only have a 'Home Theatre in a Box' Sony 6.1 system. You've made me feel inadequate ;p

Yeah, the audio definitely is better on these releases. I've gotta toss a disc in my computer and check the stats to see what the story is, but everything I've played sounds amazing on my system.
What you said about quality checking also shocked me as that was something I did not know. Wow, what a case for me to be timing my own subs (again, it's something that I would do no matter what anyway)! I'm sure it's not always that bad but now that I'm doing it myself with the Toei discs I know I'll get what I want.
The QC thing primarily comes from two discs I bought: Trunks: Prelude to Terror and Movie 9. In the former, one line of dialogue had the subtitles formated incorrectly, and the first line of dialogue was on the bottom and then text-wrapped to the top of the screen. It kinda put me off on FUNi (moreso because they offered no exchange and did a stealth re-release, basically asking us to pay again). Then, I bought Movie 9 years later and not even 5 minutes in, Goku says to Kaio, "So, they still think Cell defeated Cell?"

These may be isolated instances and I just have shitty luck, but it's one factor among many others that makes Region 1 DragonBall something for me to avoid. On the other hand, I love FUNi's Fruits Basket DVD's (and I hope they haven't messed with them in terms of color balance and such).
Finally, man, it's been a while since I've heard the Ocean Group you're so fond of. I sold or lost my original three DBZ movie DVDs long ago. I'll have to check them out again just to remember what they sound like. Naturally, I hate the current cast...but is the Ocean Group really that good or do you just like their voices/tracks for nostalgia reasons?
Oh, it's definitely nostalgia. The Ocean Group dub (the first one, mind you, not the 2nd UK dub) was my intro to DBZ, and I loved hearing Scott McNeil's Piccolo, Brian Drummond's screams ("I'LL GET YOU FOR THIS! YOU WON'T ESCAPE, MY WRATH!"), and even Ian Corlett's Goku (I know, sacrilege). And need I even mention their Captain Ginyu and his awesomeness? I'd buy it just to relive those Saturday mornings when I woke up at 7am to watch DBZ.

The Pioneer movies are the best example of their talent though, and a sad glimpse at what *could* have been for English DBZ. A close script (add back in the attack names, take out the occasional added in SFX and you've got a solid dub), original BGM and solid acting.

-Corey

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Post by b_boult » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:09 am

Tsukento wrote: But is his history showing that he's a legit seller? I had a similar story where a guy was selling his two Z Dragon Boxes together while selling all sorts of other anime boxsets. Came with everything. I won the auction for $227.50. Just to be sure before sending any money, I constantly asked the guy for new pictures just to confirm he had it. Sure enough, he unregistered his eBay account and never responded to his e-mails. Pretty sure the people who did bid on his stuff got screwed out of their money. :\
I took your advice as you have made me PARANOID and asked for more photos, and he has sent some, which he clearly took (unless hes a brilliant scammer and wants me to think this) last night when I requested them, as the photos were a lot darker, but not enough to try and hide anything as I could still see it all properly as before. I have now paid the £97, and have to wait a week.

Also he only just signed up to Ebay, but I personally believe the evidence is in his favour, even if he's a new Ebay seller (Don't start telling me its probably a scam because of this either I already know the risks and past history of things like this, I am taking an informed risk based on my own searches of him and personal correspondence).

Also if it is a scam, I have up to £120 cover from ebay themselves anyway, so I'm not worried.

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Post by MajinVejitaXV » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:33 am

...um, am I the only one kinda suspicious that he only took pictures of the outer box? Post the auction link, I'm curious...

-Corey

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Post by b_boult » Wed Apr 19, 2006 11:45 am

This is true and I obviously considered it however do you know of anywhere you can get that box print from in that clarity with the exact dimensions as the official dragonbox?

Also the print is positioned in exactly the same place as Mike's, and the box appears to be exactly the same.

Also I know whats coming next now, "I don't like the name Uranus DVD's", but he seems to be selling all his anime DVDs but not in suspiciously large amounts either, so I guess it makes sense. But here:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... otohosting

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Post by desirecampbell » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:05 pm

It says it comes with a 'dragon radar'. Now this is suspicious because he should know that it comes with two scouters, not the dragon radar...

curiouser and curiouser.

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Post by b_boult » Wed Apr 19, 2006 12:12 pm

He could have just misnamed that, but ya, it's all an interesting gamble on my part I hope it pays off.

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