Fan Ideas you Hate

[LuckyCat]

What's wrong with making Yamcha relevant?

He had his day, let it go.

[ABED]

What's wrong with making Yamcha relevant?

He had his day, let it go.

That argument could be used sadly for about any character. Tenshinhan "had his day", that doesn't mean I don't believe he's not worthy of better material. What specifically about Yamcha makes you hate the fan idea of making him more relevant?

[LuckyCat]

That argument could be used sadly for about any character. Tenshinhan "had his day", that doesn't mean I don't believe he's not worthy of better material. What specifically about Yamcha makes you hate the fan idea of making him more relevant?

Every time he's appeared after his day he's served as The Worf Effect, and that role becomes ludicrous and ineffective in later stories. To Yamcha's credit, I do like him in the Pilaf saga and his part should still be there if a reboot is made.

[Doctor.]

Yeah, I think that making Yamcha, or any of the humans really, relevant again is almost ridiculous at this point. Their role as weaklings (for lack of a better word) who were left in the dust has been cemented already that making them relevant again wouldn't work well, you'd need a billion power-ups or just a huge, unbelievable one that the fanbase would hate. It'd only really work in a reboot where the humans are kept at a level close to Piccolo and the Saiyans, not at a level weaker than the base Saiyans and Freeza.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I'm referring to times when series change leads after a few seasons like when when Topher Grace left That 70s Show, or Ron Howard left Happy Days, or when producers tried to replace the Dukes on The Dukes of Hazzard. The audiences grew to love those characters. If the series is only a few episodes int then it's hardly the same thing. There isn't that long term emotional investment.

I'd much rather see the writers make better use of the characters than push someone else into the main role.

That only applies to my first example...

[ABED]

I'm referring to times when series change leads after a few seasons like when when Topher Grace left That 70s Show, or Ron Howard left Happy Days, or when producers tried to replace the Dukes on The Dukes of Hazzard. The audiences grew to love those characters. If the series is only a few episodes int then it's hardly the same thing. There isn't that long term emotional investment.

I'd much rather see the writers make better use of the characters than push someone else into the main role.

That only applies to my first example...

You wrote "an entire story arc". That can mean a lot of things.

Every time he's appeared after his day he's served as The Worf Effect, and that role becomes ludicrous and ineffective in later stories

There is no "his day". Characters can grow and be revived.

[Kamiccolo9]

And then there are heroes like Green Lantern whose multiple incarnations seem to be equally popular.

1 - That's debatable; 2 - They go back to Hal for good reason; 3 - the Green Lantern Corps is like the police, so it's not like someone has to take over someone else's spot. It's not exactly like the Slayer in Buffy.

Hal wasn't the original Green Lantern. You're just proving his point.

Same situation with the Flash, by the way. And in the late 80's to early 90's, Marvel had multiple spinoffs like Thunderstrike, X-Force, and a few others that they actually cancelled in order to raise sells for Thor and X-Men again, even though the new comics were outselling the old ones.

[LuckyCat]

Every time he's appeared after his day he's served as The Worf Effect, and that role becomes ludicrous and ineffective in later stories

There is no "his day". Characters can grow and be revived.

Sure there is, you mentioned it yourself above. To be clear, it's when a character is at his best. Characters in this series move and change and some even become unimportant. That's not a bad thing. If Toriyama/Toei can't make good stories for Yamcha anymore (as they've shown time and time again) I'd rather they not bring him in at all.

[Avenged]

- Funi Dub fans wanting Masako Nozawa to stop voicing Goku

Not an idea, just a common misconception that all English fans want her to quit voicing Goku.

[ABED]

And then there are heroes like Green Lantern whose multiple incarnations seem to be equally popular.

1 - That's debatable; 2 - They go back to Hal for good reason; 3 - the Green Lantern Corps is like the police, so it's not like someone has to take over someone else's spot. It's not exactly like the Slayer in Buffy.

Hal wasn't the original Green Lantern. You're just proving his point.

Same situation with the Flash, by the way. And in the late 80's to early 90's, Marvel had multiple spinoffs like Thunderstrike, X-Force, and a few others that they actually cancelled in order to raise sells for Thor and X-Men again, even though the new comics were outselling the old ones.

Not really, Alan Scott's Green Lantern is very different. His ring is magic and he's not part of the Green Lantern Corp. I also don't think Scott was all that popular to begin with. The reason there was a silver age to begin with was because the original characters weren't connecting. That's not the case with Goku. Sure, in any really long running series, it will have it's ups and downs and will likely run out of steam, but they usually go back to some beginning. The Reign of the Supermen was popular, but they had to go back to the true blue boyscout. In DBZ, they temporarily put Gohan in the main spot and it wasn't awful, but it went back to Goku for a good reason. You have to look at these things over time, not just a momentary bump in sales.

Sure there is, you mentioned it yourself above. To be clear, it's when a character is at his best. Characters in this series move and change and some even become unimportant. That's not a bad thing. If Toriyama/Toei can't make good stories for Yamcha anymore (as they've shown time and time again) I'd rather they not bring him in at all.

Again, that can be said of pretty much every character other than Goku and even Vegeta. Piccolo's best days seem to be behind him, that doesn't mean I don't think they should try to make him more relevant. I still have no idea why you hate the idea of Yamcha becoming more relevant.

[Basaku]

Stuff that I was never all that interested in. He's an okay protagonist, but he can't carry the series without Bruce as his mentor. Not in my opinion, anyway.

That's fair enough, but the show did last multiple seasons and is appreciated by majority so in terms of succesfully letting someone else be the main hero (doesn't equal with removal of the old one) it obviously succeeded.

I get your point about Han, but that isn't so much a problem with him as it is symptomatic of the entire movie. There are constant parallels and call backs to the originals, down to even having essentially a Death Star. Out of all of those things, Han is the one element I never have a problem with because Ford is a great actor and Han's a great character and he's not static either. I don't grow tired of him, and I don't grow tired of Goku. I like the running jokes about food. They're funny and they don't take up a lot of time. It's like the Joey loves food jokes in Friends; I never grew tired of them.

Goku used to be non-static, not anymore since Cell arc. In that regard, Han actually grows in Force Aweakens, Goku's portrayal is same old after 1993

The only character who I think could've used more screentime was Poe and that's because he left the story for a long time.

Exactly. He could've used the screentime that was devoted to Han's unnecessarily rehashed "smuggler owns money to someone" long scene that followed shortly after. Han's character didn't need it, neither did the movie.

If the older cast has to be short changed because the new cast "needs" more screen time to get established, the new characters probably aren't that interesting. I don't think that's the case here.

The "audience" doesn't work that way. Real life stardom and iconic status of the old characters are a disadvantage to any potential new character. People like familiar stuff often and are reserved about any changes, not willing to give it a chance. Letting the new characters 'breathe' is one way to do it. Of course it doesn't automatically mean those new characters will prove themselves as good or iconic to the audience as the old ones, but it gives them a fair chance to prove themselves.

I don't think in DB that it's an issue of screen time, it's an issue of finding the rest of the cast something to do. It's not as much about the minutes as it is making them count. Muten Roshi and Tenshinhan's arc mattered without taking the spotlight off of Goku.

That's decades ago. We all know that and it was great. As was Kuririn/18 romance subplot in Cell arc or Satan's relevancy in Buu arc. The issue is with neo DB (and GT) not willing stuff like that happen anymore, at least so far.

[Draconic]

While I love Batman Beyond and think it's a great show, I don't know how good an example it is. The show was not really succesful as it was cancelled prematurely and it only got a true send off in that one JLU episode.

[precita]

Getting back on topic, anything to do with Super Saiyan 5 or beyond is truly awful fanfiction that's been around for over 20 years now.

[ABED]

That's fair enough, but the show did last multiple seasons and is appreciated by majority so in terms of succesfully letting someone else be the main hero (doesn't equal with removal of the old one) it obviously succeeded.

It's not that it can't be somewhat good, but it's just not nearly as good with another protagonist. That 70s Show was still good when Eric left, but not AS good. The new Star Wars was good, but the audience is going to see old friends. It's why you go to sequels - for the familiar. Putting someone else in Goku's spot would be a mistake. He's the icon and no one else fits the tone of DB quite like him. It would be far easier to create an organic change in Goku than to just push someone into his spot

He could've used the screentime that was devoted to Han's unnecessarily rehashed "smuggler owns money to someone" long scene that followed shortly after. Han's character didn't need it, neither did the movie.

Or they could've just not rehashed most of Episode 4. The film is rife with that. No the film didn't need that sequence, but it does need a great character like Han.

The "audience" doesn't work that way. Real life stardom and iconic status of the old characters are a disadvantage to any potential new character. People like familiar stuff often and are reserved about any changes, not willing to give it a chance. Letting the new characters 'breathe' is one way to do it. Of course it doesn't automatically mean those new characters will prove themselves as good or iconic to the audience as the old ones, but it gives them a fair chance to prove themselves.

That is exactly how it works. Star Wars is the reason those actors and characters became icons. Is it any surprise that people want to see more of their old friends? New ones are good, but don't relegated the older generation to nostalgia acts. Give them something meaningful to do. Don't merely use them to prop up the next generation, the audience will not care. The problem was never that the new characters didn't have enough screen time to make an impression. Based on the reactions I'm seeing and hearing, that's exactly what happened. They made a good impression. Getting back to DB, the new characters sometimes make impressions and it doesn't take much time if done right like with Trunks. That doesn't require short changing familiar ones.

[LuckyCat]

Sure there is, you mentioned it yourself above. To be clear, it's when a character is at his best. Characters in this series move and change and some even become unimportant. That's not a bad thing. If Toriyama/Toei can't make good stories for Yamcha anymore (as they've shown time and time again) I'd rather they not bring him in at all.

Again, that can be said of pretty much every character other than Goku and even Vegeta. Piccolo's best days seem to be behind him, that doesn't mean I don't think they should try to make him more relevant. I still have no idea why you hate the idea of Yamcha becoming more relevant.

I've explained it to you several times including in this quote. Also, Piccolo is not comparable to Yamcha at all. Piccolo went to Namek, Piccolo fought Cell equally, and perhaps most importantly Toriyama likes Piccolo and has mentioned in interviews that Piccolo continues to train. This is why Piccolo gets to be in Champa's tournament (i.e. new material). Yamcha hasn't been a serious contender since the 22nd TB, and even that's being a little generous.

[FlorianGran]

Yamcha was always a joke, it isn't like he has any glory days to return to.

As for series passing the torch, one of my favorite shounens of all time (jojo's Bizarre adventure) does this as it's main gimmicks and it's been very successful for the near 30 years of its publication. But it tackles the shift better than DBZ could at this point, because it doesn't saddle the new protagonists with growing under the shadow of the old ones.

At this point, a shift to a new protagonist would feel like the end of red dead redemption, where I get what the writers were doing, but I would never feel as attached to the new guy as much as the guy I spent the entire story with.

[Avenged]

Getting back on topic, anything to do with Super Saiyan 5 or beyond is truly awful fanfiction that's been around for over 20 years now.

Not a fan idea anymore with there being two forms of Super Saiyan God now.

[Lord Beerus]

Getting back on topic, anything to do with Super Saiyan 5 or beyond is truly awful fanfiction that's been around for over 20 years now.

Not a fan idea anymore with there being two forms of Super Saiyan God now.

Since when has Super Saiyan God or Super Saiyan Blue ever been referred to as Super Saiyan 5?

[Avenged]

Getting back on topic, anything to do with Super Saiyan 5 or beyond is truly awful fanfiction that's been around for over 20 years now.

Not a fan idea anymore with there being two forms of Super Saiyan God now.

Since when has Super Saiyan God or Super Saiyan Blue ever been referred to as Super Saiyan 5?

Do they really have to be when they are in fact new forms?

[HourglassIndigo]

Getting back on topic, anything to do with Super Saiyan 5 or beyond is truly awful fanfiction that's been around for over 20 years now.

AGREED. And the designs for the forms are always super lazy.