Do you think this argument holds any ground ?

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Do you think this argument holds any ground ?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:33 am

(Sorry for the early post) A lot of people (mostly FUNi dub fans) like the Faulconer score, however most fans (mostly sub/manga fans) agree that it doesn't fit Dragon Ball. However a lot of fans (mostly FUNi dub fans)use the title switch to justify it being used in Dragon Ball Z, do you agree with this argument or disagree ?
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Re: Do you think this argument holds any ground ?

Post by Ajay » Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:51 am

Disagree.

It's all the same series. "Z" is just an arbitrary addition thrown out by Toriyama because Toei asked him to. It's all Dragon Ball. Tonal shifts occur throughout the entire series, so that argument is worthless, too.

There's no justification for Faulconer's presence in the series that holds any real ground.
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Re: Do you think this argument holds any ground ?

Post by Akumaito Beam » Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:00 am

I’ve actually been discussing this with a friend recently. I feel like it wasn’t just the music that was vastly different in tone when it came to Funimation’s adaptation of Dragon Ball. The dialogue felt lifted from American comic books and action flicks from the 90’s. That is to say the dialogue was full of “cool” cliché’s and characters endlessly cracking wise to one another. The voices were just as goofy and overblown as the music. I can see why fans of the old Funimation dub like that music. It’s part of a bigger package. It was a stylistic choice amongst many to modernize and "hippen up" the show. This adaptation was never meant to be “Dragon Ball” as the fans of the Japanese version knew it. Why retain the music when they went out of their way to change literally everything else?

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Re: Do you think this argument holds any ground ?

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:01 am

Something relevant I wrote recently on the subject here:
VegettoEX wrote:I like to think of an imaginary world where the Buu arc got an extra subtitle to its name, because it's exactly the same situation in everything BUT name as the DB/DBZ break: new opening/ending theme, new general slew of musical cues from Kikuchi while still working in older pieces and movie pieces, yet all still exactly the same manga week-to-week.

By that logical extension, if you're going to be self-consistent and acknowledge what happened there, you'd have to say the same thing about the Buu arc in the TV series.

The difference between the "two" series (DB vs. DBZ) is basically non-existent and propped up by fans of the Faulconer Productions replacement score as a retroactive reason* to support their musical tastes (and since your question stemmed out of that thread, that's why I'm answering it this way). I don't buy the "but it's suddenly sci-fi so CHANGE EVERYTHING!" explanation, because: see Majin Buu arc example above. All of that space/aliens/etc. introduction with Raditz was just as simultaneously gradual and abrupt as every single other story arc division that came before it, complete with a time skip just like every other one before it. Nothing was different. Par for the course.

Yes, the tone changes a little bit. Just like it did in every story arc before it.

Yes, new musical cues are added to the mix while still working in other ones. Just like it did in every story arc before it.

If you can't tell, I feel somewhat strongly on this matter. It comes off waaaaaaaaaaaaaay defensively. I'll admit that.

(*If you like the score, great. Don't co-opt some other reason to justify it. Own it.)
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Re: Do you think this argument holds any ground ?

Post by fadeddreams5 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 9:02 am

There's no justification for the soundtrack of any anime to ever be replaced when dubbing into another language.

However, I do feel there are enough distinctions between the first half of the series (Dragon Ball) and 2nd half (Dragon Ball Z) that allow the Faulconer soundtrack to fit in well (not better, mind you). It's the only time that I've preferred the replacement soundtrack to the original.
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Re: Do you think this argument holds any ground ?

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:29 am

I've got to be honest on this one - even though I've somewhat defended the Falcouner score in another thread recently, at least in-so-far as it's continued inclusion in re-releases of Z, I never watch it with that score anymore. Or at least, I haven't in a long, long time. And a big part of that is for exactly the reason Ajay says - it's all one series when you get down to it. Sure, there are things that fit or don't fit, but DB into Z into GT, it's all one long continuing narrative. There's absolutely no reason they shouldn't feel that way, even with a few letters tossed into the end of the title to signify a 'new era'. GT might have a different composer, but it's score still fits seamlessly enough with what came before it with Kikuchi, at least more so than the English score did.

That's not to say there's not still moments of the Falcouner score that I don't absolutely love though. No matter what version I'm watching, be it the English dub, or the original Japanese, when I get to Vegeta's first Super Saiyan transformation? You bet your ass I'm switching to the Falcouner score for at least that scene, because holy freakin' crap do I love the musical cue there. And even beyond that, I still enjoy much of the Falcouner score as music outside of the show (not so much the 'peaceful' tracks though - for me that's where Falcouner stumbled a bit, he did much better with character and action themes). And if someone does enjoy that score with the show, then that's great too. It still 'exists', it's still a part of the show at least for the English dub. I don't really see why fans of that version should really have it held against them either. There's some that no doubt return the favor to the Kikuchi score unfairly, but if someone honestly enjoys the Falcouner score and isn't abrasive about it? Then that's perfectly fine.
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Re: Do you think this argument holds any ground ?

Post by successoroffate » Mon Jan 04, 2016 2:53 pm

The way I see it, Funi's score falls short in very emotional and important scenes. From Goku turning SSJ for the first time, Gohan turning SSJ 2( Which is one of the top moments of the franchise), Goku defeating Kid Buu and all the way to the end of GT, Goku defeating Omega was a key moment and Funi's score just killed the moment.
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Re: Do you think this argument holds any ground ?

Post by Herms » Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:00 pm

As others have said, it's all one big series, etc etc. No real reason to replace Kikuchi's score for Z.

But on the flip-side, who's to say Faulconer couldn't have come up with a score for DB just as fitting as the score he produced for DBZ? I'm sure if Funi had used a Faulconer score for the original DB, Funi fans would have gotten used to that and so find it perfectly natural for DB and DBZ to share the same composer. Likewise, if Kikuchi really had only scored the original DB and Toei got someone else to score DBZ, then I'm sure many Japanese fans would as a result find that approach to be the natural one. A lot of it just boils down to what you're exposed to first, and the preconceptions you form as a result.
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Re: Do you think this argument holds any ground ?

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Jan 04, 2016 3:05 pm

There should be no grounds for the original soundtrack of an anime to be ever replaced by with another soundtrack, regardless of what the tone of the anime may appear to be to some western fans. It's just disrespectful to the original show and displays a lack of professionalism, in my opinion.

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