Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, etc.

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Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, etc.

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:26 pm

So Kendamu just retweeted a pretty hysterical conversation. It is what it is, and it's funny enough on its own to just consume and move on from. If that's all you want to do, that's fine. Here it is:

Image

But it got me thinking a little bit.

I come from an era where, if you wanted to express an opinion online, you had to work for it. Even signing up for a Geocities or FortuneCity account was a monumental task, and you had no guarantee anyone was ever going to see it. If you were lucky enough to find an audience on USENET conversations or even on your own website (remember, there were no "blogs" yet, nevermind these social media microblogs)... well, you had an audience. Good for you!

Not so anymore. You can directly talk to the people you want to bitch at and have a pretty good guarantee they'll see it.

How has this personally affected your fandom? Do you just play the role of the casual observer, following one-off staff that you like? Frequent conversations? Tweets that go unacknowledged? One example for us at Kanzenshuu is that it gave us an opportunity to directly ask Yusuke Watanabe about Battle of Gods name puns and get an (incorrect!) answer, which led us down the rabbit hole of further exposing the insanity and multi-layered confusion among the production staff for those character names. This blows my mind: getting a real-time answer from production staff about something AS IT WAS HAPPENING was an impossible pipe-dream back when I started my website.

On the flip side, it lets you be a total asshole with zero consequence. I wonder if anyone actually thinks about this. Perhaps that's the big "we're at a point where we need to teach children empathy" conversation going around these days.

And on a separate note, the "sounds like a transvestite" comment in the above tweet is amazingly strange, considering that's the exact same argument levied against Linda Young's performance. Not saying it's a valid description, but it's the same thing. It reminds me often when I see people complain about Shunsuke Kikuchi's score as sounding like "circus music" when that's the exact same argument we used for the Faulconer Productions score.

Mostly just rambling, but I think looking at these examples is really good perspective and I hope you think twice before ever posting anything online ever in the history of ever no really for ever ever ever because there are decades now for other people to pull from and make you look as hypocritical and insane as they want you to look.

Have fun out there!
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by dbgtFO » Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:32 pm

It hasn't affected me much, as I don't really have such needs like some others to voice my displeasure with Funimation staff and viz media(because I really don't care much about that stuff).
If I had mastery over japanese I would probably bombard those relevant accounts with all my nerdy questions, but alas I don't, so they won't be constantly disturbed by me(it would've been such an honor.. for them).

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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Michsi » Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:42 pm

It's always unpleasant to see things like this. I've seen it happen in other fandoms as well, Bleach being the first that comes to mind at the moment.

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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Xeztin » Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:45 pm

It hasn't really affected me much either as I don't really want to voice my complaints to the higher ups as I'm just one person and not everyone will agree. I'd rather have debates and conversations to be honest. When it comes to manga/anime I'd have to know Japanese to speak to them as the only question I'd have to Funimation is "where the flippity flop is Kai's Boo Saga???". I think the positives far outweigh the negatives though because fans have a chance to directly speak to their idols. There is always going to be "That Guy" though like in the conversation you posted, that was hilarious thanks for sharing that! :lol:

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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:47 pm

How many are the individuals who use social media to hate or attack are over the age of twenty-five? Or thirty? Can we definitively describe these individuals as being in their teens and early twenties? If so, there is definitely an issue with our youth. Social media is the [insofar?] ultimate culmination of western narcissism and "you can do anything you want" attitude. After all, why follow someone on social media if you did not care about what they had to say? Why post on social media if you do not believe what you have to contribute is [quantifiably?] worthy of others' attention?

Social media is also the ultimate echo chamber, a safe place to retreat when big ol' meanies or willingly ignorant individuals say things to you that you don't want to hear let alone pay mind. The inception of the blocking option only sharpened that double edge. Why do we come to the internet? One would think it is to learn and discuss, but experience has quickly come to teach me otherwise. Nobody comes to the internet to learn, they come to masturbate. No, no, not just harmlessly to pornography, but to oneself. It feels good to be told--even if not in so direct a manner--that one is worthy of something. Even being worthy of being 'slain' by your prey feels good. I have no doubt the boob who attacked Ayres would have felt more frustrated simply being left ignored.

Youth these days have far more self-worth than they have an understanding of their actual worth. This is a societal problem that is now coming back to bite society in the ass. Humorously enough, the social media venues that harbor this nonsense are all the richer for it.


Oh, well, at least it makes it easier to find artists. It's easier than ever to communicate with your favorite creator, whether for Dragon Ball or another comic or animated work.
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by DoomieDoomie911 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:51 pm

People complaining on social media has become an all too common sight. Some people really need to get a life... :roll:

The saddest thing about this, though, is that this is pretty tame compared to some of the stuff I see online almost every day. The internet brings out the absolute worst in people. Anyone can be as vile and atrocious as they want because there are absolutely no consequences.
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Chuquita » Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:56 pm

Teaching children empathy hopefully helps towards lessening this type of situation in the future. It's one thing for social media sites like Twitter and Facebook to force you to provide your real name (though I'm sure there are people who type in fake names anyway) but giving real names isn't going to stop those who lack empathy. If someone doesn't understand what it's like to put themselves in the other person's shoes then they're gonna be mean to whoever they want, especially if they know there's little to no chance of repercussion. It's not like when a kid is mean to their sibling and their parents take away the kid's toys for a while; there are no "parents" on the internet. Typical worst case scenario your account gets banned from whatever site it is. In truly rare occasions lawsuits happen, but as far as I know those are especially rare due to the nature of the internet; normally if there's a lawsuit over internet bullying it's because someone died because of it. It's really, really sad.

It'd be nice if there were more of a sense of decency in internet comments, you know. Treating people the way you'd want to be. Not that you shouldn't be allowed to say you dislike a thing, but it's the way people go about it, the way some people jump down others throats and instead of just saying simply that they dislike a thing they scream in capslock and yell obscenities and make rude statements and it's awful.

Being able to talk to staff members of shows that are in production is an incredible thing. The internet as it is now is incredible in terms of how interconnected everyone is and you can watch shows from other countries online streaming the very same day they air instead of having to read translated episode summaries and not getting to see those shows themselves for years and even then from bootlegged videotapes purchased at a comic shop or farmer's market or a 12 hour long download via 56k modem in tiny tiny 320 resolution. I'm still in awe that I can browse Kanzenshuu on my phone and post things online using that phone from almost anywhere. I'm no longer stuck tethered to a clunky PC in a single room. I'm not leaving the internet when I leave my home; it's right in my handbag and that's so cool to me!

It's why I really hope in the future that more people do think before they post and to know how important it is to treat others with respect. Because it's true that stuff you post is almost-always online forever.
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Mon Jan 04, 2016 4:57 pm

Youch, that's just...painful, to read. And not just because I'm a fan of Ayres as an actor even outside of Freeza, but simply because someone actually thought that was an okay way to approach someone.

As much time as I spend on the internet and enjoy interacting with people on it (sometimes more so than with people in real life, admittedly), it unfortunately brings out the worst in a lot of people. The anonymity of it all seems to make a lot of people act in ways that I'm almost certain they'd never act face to face with another person (though there's issues with people not saying what they think and talking behind people's backs in real life, but that's an entirely different discussion). We all fall victim to being a bit of an ass at times I feel, but the kind of thing in the screencap is just a whole new level of jerkiness.

As far as the exact same examples being levied against both sides of the fandom debate though - I've noticed that before. It's actually a big part of why I think the two sides of the fandom can actually get along just fine if both sides try hard enough, but all it takes is one snide remark from either side, or at least what could be perceived as one, and suddenly we're all back in the late 90's/early 2000's warzone again. ...Well, okay, maybe not THAT bad, but still.
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Basaku » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:03 pm

It's a global problem. Teens and young adults 'lead' here, but this behaviour infects every social group, fandom, industry, organizations etc. Professional managers of giant corporations getting into on childish bickering on Twitter, hardworking mothers being vile on Facebook, older generations that should know better acting just as rotten as bored spoiled kids. People used to be just as vulgar and rude back in the day too, when talking behind someone's back. Or when sending a threating letter via postmail, or stamping an anonymous note on someone's door. Anonymity and/or lack of direct confrontation is why it happens. 90% of people would never dare to say stuff like this in someone's face being in the same room, they would shake in fear of being confronted or realize fast how vile it would sound. But the internet adds even greater anonymity and distance. It will take decades unfortunately before essentially the entire world changes its online etiquette at least slighty. And even then it won't go away forever in full. Some people will always attack others to feel better for themselves

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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by ekrolo2 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:11 pm

Firstly, I'm amazed he'd say something like that on Twitter which is pretty (in)famous for throwing fits over that kind of thing.

Second, find real reasons to dislike something. What are real reasons? Well lets use this situation as an example, instead of saying he made Freeza sound like a transvestite he could say that Ayers went overboard with some of the dialogue or that some of his screaming was grating to listen to. That's an actual complaint being delivered in an intelligent way.

Even I, who can bitch with the worst of them, am never gonna say "Oh the new DBZ sucks because Goku's God form has gay magenta hair!". If I've got a complaint, I'm gonna find it and voice. Hell, I've seen plenty of people bitch about the way Vegeta catches Goku in episode 14 of DBS and use that as a "complaint" for why the entire arc sucks.

When it comes to that stuff I just shake my head, say "fucking really?!" then just stop right there before getting into a fight I know I'm not gonna win. Because you can't reason with these people, I know, I've tried and it would be more productive to bash your face against a wall for two days straight then try to have a half-decent argument with them.

So yeah, if you're gonna hate something, actually figure out an intelligent reason for it with examples to back your point up if you're going to bring it up at discussions.
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by ABED » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:23 pm

I wonder if anyone actually thinks about this.
I do think about it. A good piece of advice i heard from adults was if you are upset, write it down in a letter and then put it in a drawer. The internet allows everyone to hide behind their keyboards and write anything, no matter how bad, and put it on the net. I think that if we take a step back from the keyboard instead of responding instantly and emotionally, it's likely that much of the vitriol would go away. Another big thing wrong that is in control of admins is to try and catch things before they get completely out of hand. This site is good at that. While appreciate the ability to say what's on my mind, I like someone to play ref.

One of the things that bothers me is it seems like there are some social media accounts that seem to only be there so people can bitch to celebs. No one needs that kind of negativity in their life, neither the recipient or the sender.

Regarding the exchange with Ayres from the original post, I liked that even though the sender was obviously being beligerent, Ayres gave interesting responses.

I recently turned thirty and while i can find myself sliding into old negative patterns, I am making an honest effort to better myself with things like this and i honestly don't think i was ever that bad to begin with. Sure, I can be a tad bullheaded, and I wish the tone I was trying to convey would come across better in my writing, but I think I've been good about taking the advice of the abovementioned adults.
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by precita » Mon Jan 04, 2016 5:46 pm

Insulting VA's to their face is just plain being an asshole. You can dislike a voice in a show, but when you're rude to the actual actor that's just plain wrong.

Makes me wonder what would have happened if social media was a big thing in 1999 when the Season 3 dub was airing. Back then people just complained on forums that nobody saw...imagine if social media was a thing back then?

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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by samuraix123 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 6:10 pm

JulieYBM wrote:How many are the individuals who use social media to hate or attack are over the age of twenty-five? Or thirty? Can we definitively describe these individuals as being in their teens and early twenties? If so, there is definitely an issue with out youth. Social media is the [insofar?] ultimate culmination of western narcissism and "you can do anything you want" attitude. After all, why follow someone on social media if you did not care about what they had to say? Why post on social media if you do not believe what you have to contribute is [quantifiably?] worthy of others' attention?

Social media is also the ultimate echo chamber, a safe place to retreat when big ol' meanies or willingly ignorant individuals say things to you that you don't want to hear let alone pay mind. The inception of the blocking option only sharpened that double edge. Why do we come to the internet? One would think it is to learn and discuss, but experience that quickly come to teach me otherwise. Nobody comes to the internet to learn, they come to masturbate. No, no, not just harmlessly to pornography, but to oneself. It feels good to be told--even if not in so direct a manner--that one is worthy of something. Even being worthy of being 'slain' by your prey feels good. I have no doubt the boob who attacked Ayres would have felt more frustrated simply being left ignored.

Youth these days have far more self-worth than they have an understanding of their actual worth. This is a societal problem that is now coming back to bite society in the ass. Humorously enough, the social media venues that harbor this nonsense are all the richer for it.


Oh, well, at least it makes it easier to find artists. It's easier than ever to communicate with your favorite creator, whether for Dragon Ball or another comic or animated work.
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:19 pm

I KNOW right? Jacob is sooooo good at stuff like this!I love his posts.
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by ZodaEX » Mon Jan 04, 2016 7:51 pm

I may be a closet Kai hater but I thought Chris did an amazing job in the new movie! I can't imagine anyone but Linda doing it better really and I doubt she could lol.

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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Kid Buu » Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:09 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:Firstly, I'm amazed he'd say something like that on Twitter which is pretty (in)famous for throwing fits over that kind of thing.
Yeah, that was my reaction too.

Anyway, I'm of the opinion that something good has to come with the bad. I'm glad Social Media lets us interact with people we would have never gotten the chance to interact with. Through I haven't interacted with someone from Viz/Funi/Toei on there myself.
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Lord Beerus » Mon Jan 04, 2016 8:48 pm

Shit like this is why I never got into social media like facebook, twitter and the rest because it's just filled with vitriol like this. Unfortunately, as technology marches on and as more ways to access the internet at home and on the go for practically anyone of age are created, more comments like that are gonna become far too common and get even more toxic.

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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Gaffer Tape » Mon Jan 04, 2016 10:24 pm

I'm wearing a dress at this moment. I'm pretty sure Freeza and I don't sound terribly similar. Just wanted to throw that out there.

It's interesting this comes up right now because, on a whim, I just picked up Amanda Palmer's (of The Dresden Dolls, wife of Neil Gaiman, etc.) book, The Art of Asking, which details her own relationship with her fanbase, and how she embraced the Internet and social media to foster connections with her fanbase. She makes the argument that without such things, her band might not ever have gotten off the ground. So there is a flip side to this: yes, it allows fans to reach out and touch their idols. But, obviously, it's a fantastic tool for artists to stay in touch with their fans. So while little inbred ne'er do wells might throw an insult out there, Chris Ayres is probably more than willing to take the hit in return for being able to communicate his appearances/professional plans, etc.
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Herms » Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:02 pm

Confirmed: Eddie Izzard to voice Freeza in DB Super dub.

(Disclaimer: Not actually confirmed. Unlikely to be literally true.)

Anyway, I think Ayres handled this pretty well.
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by DemonRin » Mon Jan 04, 2016 11:49 pm

I'm gonna be honest, I got a twitter ENTIRELY because of FUNimation. When they got the license for One Piece they had a few events, I wana say they were Q&A kinda things on Twitter but don't quote me on that, so I got an account to participate.

So, when you talk about how Social Media affected my Fandom... well, the FANDOM actually affected my Social Media! lol

Overall I think it's been a great thing TBH. I've interacted with a lot of FUNi cast and staff (Mostly about One Piece lol) over Twitter and I've enjoyed it, tho, I'm always pretty nice and respectful. Once I tweeted at Mike McFarland and Stephanie Young about Robin's big "I WANNA LIVE!!" Moment and how it moved me to tears, which is exactly what it was supposed to do, and they retweeted it and replied about how honored they were to get such praise from the fanbase, especially on such a pivotal scene.


That being said, yeah.... Social Media has enabled some people to be REAL Jerks.... my god, Chris Ayres is Classy as all hell if he was able to turn that conversation around the way he did.
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