Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, etc.

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TheBlackPaladin
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:28 am

I like to think I have always been careful from the get-go about what I post on social media and forums, but my understanding of how words come across on the internet has improved with age. I think all of us have some sort of post we've made where we cringe and immediately say, "Yeah, I wrote that, I was young and impulsive, anyway, moving on..."

For me, I try to never post anything unless it's either a positive appraisal or constructive criticism. This is especially true of voice actors. I'm not a fan of every single dub actor's performance, but if there's a performance that I really don't like, my "criticism" is simply not talking about that performance. The old "If you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all" saying is very, very true. Especially on the internet, which will keep a permanent track record of everything you say.

For that reason, never in a million years would I directly reach out to an actor to tell them I don't like their work. That's just low, and a sign of just how disconnected someone is...I'm curious to know if the person who said that to Ayres would ever have the nerve to say it in person.
precita wrote:Makes me wonder what would have happened if social media was a big thing in 1999 when the Season 3 dub was airing. Back then people just complained on forums that nobody saw...imagine if social media was a thing back then?
Eh, I'd stop short of saying that nobody saw it.

In fact, from what I've been told, back in the "Season 3" days, it was almost impossible to find anything online that remotely resembled a compliment about the dub. The dub certainly had a following, but not one with people who were savvy enough to use the internet yet.

Actually, Sean Schemmel once said on his Facebook page that the reason he stopped interacting online with the Dragon Ball fanbase for many years was because of how brutal some people were. I was surprised to read that at first and considered it a little over-the-top ("What's he talking about, I love his performance and so do countless people I've seen on YouTube!"), but as I learned just how inaccurate the original DBZ dub was, and after reading stuff like DBZ Uncensored (a sort of blog that kept track of the DBZ dub's differences from the original version), it was kind of an epiphany. I just sort of realized, "Holy crap, Schemmel and a lot of the actors were the target of a seemingly endless barrage of criticism, most of which should have been directed elsewhere...yup, that is, at best, demoralizing, and at worst, certainly painful enough to make somebody bitter."

I should come clean and admit that a factor here is that I'm an actor too, and I get it. You do occasionally have to work with producers, directors, and writers who don't completely know what they're doing. Nevertheless, the actor will bear the most of the criticism, fair or unfair.

Put another way, let's say you're someone who really, really, really wanted to be a voice actor in anime, and then after years of hoping and training, you finally land your first role...........and it's the 4Kids dub of One Piece.* You're excited as hell and do your best, only to have your hard work called "unbearable" due to things that are beyond your control, like producers who made a blatant decision not to be faithful to the original show. In a way, that's kind of how it must have been for Sean Schemmel and others. They signed up to do something that they thought would be fun and rewarding, and all they got in return--at least for a few years--was criticism for participating in a dub that was essentially the 4Kids One Piece dub of that era.

*Not referring to myself, to be clear.
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by precita » Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:50 am

Both Sean Schemmel and Chris Sabat regularly reblog DBZ related stuff on their twitters, so they're not totally turned off from the fandom:

https://twitter.com/seanschemmel

Sean also seems to really enjoy going to conventions where he meets fans face to face. My guess is though they're all dub fans who grew up with the show, and most Japanese fans never visit this so he just sees praise.

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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Metalwario64 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 2:59 am

This is why I don't follow social media.

I like the Internet, but it's amazing that it's such a great tool that you can enrich your knowledge with, but so many people use it for worthless shit like this. I love the ability to look up important things so much, but a part of me longs for the early days of the internet before social media caught on...
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Mythros » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:44 am

I recently read an article discussing the psychology of internet anonymity and its relationship to people who have narcissistic dispositions in real life. Unfortunately I can't remember where I read it, or I'd post a link. Essentially the conclusion was that the internet becomes a conduit for people who already have antisocial personality disorder, narcissists, and generally those with an impulse to manipulate others for their amusement, to act out in ways which provide no real-world repercussions for them. The article further found that the inverse is also true: that trolls and users spouting vitriol are much more likely to be people with these extreme personalities in real life than other internet users, or indeed simply being 'modern children who lack empathy'. Quantitative correlation does not equal conclusive and unalloyed truth, but it is food for thought.

Possibly due to how new social media and its culture is in the grand scheme of technological history, these kinds of discussions are more prone than, say, those about television, to jump to blanket statements about the dark side of media. Arguments about various media in a similarly non-nuanced vein were made about television when it was newer technology (that it made children more violent), and the trope extends as far back as Plato. Social media does make it easier to spout vitriol at one's least-favourite celebrity, but the majority of that blind hatred and trolling may come from a minority of already not-so-nice people. Certainly the people who read this thread are likely not the users being worried about, at any rate.
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by SupremeSSJ » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:58 am

Wow glad you made this thread, now I have a few things to add. I'm going to be 100% honest, I know I've bashed Funimation multiple times in the last 3 or so years but its another to actually hunt a VA down and call them out like that. The funny thing is is that yesterday I went to the Funi fourms to reply to a thread I had posted on to apologize of what I have said, because what others don't know is that a lot of people see this trash and it hurts. So now this thread shows up, I would put the link of the post but its to much simple search. This is 1 of the reasons why the hard workers of this site cant get interviews with the VA or company that they deserve. So maybe this thread will make people take a step back and think.

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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by VegettoEX » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:21 am

SupremeSSJ wrote: This is 1 of the reasons why the hard workers of this site cant get interviews with the VA or company that they deserve.
I just wanna clarify that this isn't true. No-one's turning us down for interviews. If anything, they're offering us ones we can't do anything with.
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by El Diabeetus » Tue Jan 05, 2016 11:55 am

It's interactions like this that make you kinda question why people have so much anger over something as silly as a dubbed voice. I may not like Young's Freeza, but I'd never go personally attack her over it. As Mike has put it the 'Shonen' attitude when carrying oneself on the web. I occasionally swear, post parodies and videos and all the like on social media. But, I'm pretty respectful to people as long as they aren't being disrespectful to me either. But, I've generally become more laid back on the internet over the years 'cause all the trouble caused on it just isn't worth it. At this point, best thing to do is either ignore trolls or put 'em in there place as Ayres did. Kudos to him on handling it well.

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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Tue Jan 05, 2016 12:38 pm

I would certainly hope that a broader lesson in empathy is necessary here; just the world-changing idea that the person on the other side of your screen is a fellow mere-mortal human. I would like to think that this is a simple thing.
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Pannaliciour wrote:Reading all the comments and interviews, my conclusion is: nobody knows what the hell is going on.
Just like Dragon Ball since Chapter #4.
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Bullza » Tue Jan 05, 2016 1:55 pm

I've never bothered with any of that social media nonsense, Twitter, Facebook, Instagram etc, I have no interest in whatsoever.

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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by rey2187 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 3:16 pm

I guess I shouldn't be surprised by this. Even with the Kai dub re-casts happening over 5 years ago now, I suppose there's always going to be those bitter fans who will forever and always be upset over the changes. However, what I don't understand is why people feel the need to attack others over something like this. It's not like that original DBZ dub has been taken away from fans that enjoyed it, it's definitely still out there and likely always will be.

I also agree 100% that people need to watch what you put our there on the internet. It's scary to think that anything you say or do on the internet will be there for possibly the rest of your life :crazy:

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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:15 pm

I like how Chris Ayres humored that guy.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
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I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Fionordequester » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:24 pm

If it makes anyone feel any better, it's NOT true that posting like this on the Internet has no consequences. Companies actually DO make a point of checking what you posted on your Facebook, or Twitter, and other places, so you actually can end up suffering for what you post. So really, there's no such thing as an "action without consequences". Your actions will ALWAYS have consequences, not just for other people, but for yourself, no matter how small they may seem to be.

Now, another thing. I think it's important to remember that both sides of the fandom have people who are guilty of posting the way that person in the OP did. PenguinTruth, for example, was especially bad about that, and fortunately, VegettoEX put a stop to that some time ago. And I think that's important to remember, I think, because, at least as far as the Kanzenshuu website goes, old dub fans like me and Lord Exor are somewhat in the minority. It's a lot harder for us to just shrug off a vitriolic message, because as far as we can see, that's the majority opinion. So that makes it harder for us to remember that most people on Kanzenshuu aren't nearly that callous, even if they do happen to think that the old dub stinks.

So, there's your PSA for the month. Hope I didn't make TOO much of a mess of your soapbox :oops: ...
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by precita » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:52 pm

Has any VA ever quit due to fandom backlash? Considering most of the FUNI cast voiced the characters forever, has this ever happened?

I know they were originally planned on using Linda Young for Kai and only recasted Freeza at the last minute. Bulma's old VA retired and Kid Gohan had a new voice because they didn't want to use Stephanie anymore.

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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Li'l Lemmy » Tue Jan 05, 2016 4:57 pm

Before the rise of social media, which has resulted in the drastic shrinkage of virtual distances between those who produce material and those who are fans of said material, experiences on the internet (for me, anyway) were about sharing fulfillment with like-minded individuals with regard to similar interests. That is how I perceived the purpose of online communication. That is why I originally joined this forum a decade ago, and probably why it still stands when most everywhere else I've ever visited has been disintegrated into digital dust; people gathering together to discuss creative works in a civilized manner was a new experience that, from what I can tell, never really caught on too well in other places... or at least not in this fandom. The remnants of other, long-gone communities have either grown out of their fandom or become commentary plankton in the vast YouTube sea, with this forum standing as the last structurally-sound bridge between fandom past and future.

Now the internet has become mostly about ego, demonstrating status, seeming cool or smart or well-informed. Mind you, this is not the fault of social media; its rise, however, has vastly exacerbated the problem. Fifteen, even just ten years ago, you would never have conceived that you could comment directly to those involved on the production end; now you can idolize or criticize from your bed or squeeze it in during your lunch break, often in 140 characters or less.

I do tend to single out Twitter (of which I am a user), because if you want to say something to someone- be it good or ill- it is the shortest, easiest route of access to the greatest number of people and takes the least amount of effort with the most chance your opinion will be seen by the intended recipient, heard by millions and regurgitated ("retweeted") exponentially by anyone that agrees with it. I find Twitter to be a fascinating study in human behavior, personally. I'm genuinely attracted to the idea that someone can compose a beautifully succint thought that goes viral and, at the other end of the spectrum, genuinely repulsed that the same platform can be used to thoughtlessly trash another person in a way that often rallies the trolls in an uncoordinated free-for-all of ignorant garbage bashing.

Anonymity, which these days is vastly fading from the landscape anyway but is nonetheless partly responsible for shaping what it has become, has given so many people the balls to say whatever they want to whomever they wish without having earned their chops, so to speak. It also accords them some sort of special dispensation to play the victim when they get called out on their behavior or otherwise challenged, a counterbehavior which I particularly despise.

No one owns their words anymore; they just rent them. No one takes responsibility for what they say because now all the words are free and everyone's opinion carries equal weight whether they have earned it or not. It's just a shouting contest about whose e-penis is bigger.

It has left me deeply cynical about fandom interactions, which I tend to limit. There's a reason my Twitter is private. I don't involve myself in fandom discussions unless I know something about the quality of the person I'm discussing with- something I've generally never had to worry about on this forum, but greatly concern myself with mostly everywhere else.


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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Hellspawn28 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:06 pm

What's with all of the love of Linda Young's Freeza voice all of a sudden? I remember everyone hated her voice for Freeza. I always remember would be like "Freeza sounds like a old lady!!", "Everyone thinks Freeza is a girl because of Linda Young!" and "I wish Freeza sound like a dude for once.". It seems like there is demand for Linda Young as Freeza when a lot of DBZ fans on the web back in the day had mixed to negative feelings for Freeza's pre Kai English voice.
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Akumaito Beam » Tue Jan 05, 2016 5:37 pm

People who go out of their way to shitpost on social media are usually kids, idiots or 3rd parties trying to stir the pot for giggles. I don't think that's anything new. Like EX said attention seeking is just way easier these days. I did my fair share of acting like a dumb piece of shit online as a kid. That is to say little has changed outside of technology.

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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by BoosterZabi » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:24 pm

A large chunk of the 'Toonami Ball Z' (original dub) is vicious, naive, ignorant, and nostalgically blind. There's nothing else to say about it.

And yeah, social media. I'll never understand why things like twitter is mandatory in this day and age.
Hellspawn28 wrote:What's with all of the love of Linda Young's Freeza voice all of a sudden? I remember everyone hated her voice for Freeza. I always remember would be like "Freeza sounds like a old lady!!", "Everyone thinks Freeza is a girl because of Linda Young!" and "I wish Freeza sound like a dude for once.". It seems like there is demand for Linda Young as Freeza when a lot of DBZ fans on the web back in the day had mixed to negative feelings for Freeza's pre Kai English voice.
The kiddies who watched it grew up and are nostalgically white washed thinking it was great. You would be surprised, there are some that believe the Bruce Falconer score was the OST. Sad part is, they make up a large chunk of the American Dragonball fanbase and their cries were loud enough that they pressured Funimation to bring back Australian Jeice (Xenoverse) and the monotone Android 18 voice actress (Kai's version was amazing not to mention attractive).
Last edited by BoosterZabi on Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by DaemonCorps » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:32 pm

DemonRin wrote:So, when you talk about how Social Media affected my Fandom... well, the FANDOM actually affected my Social Media!
Same. Though in my case, I made my twitter account because I noticed more and more people from these here forums were linking to their twitter profiles in their signatures or some other ways.

In that way, I slowly gathered more and more like-minded people whose opinions I either agree with or respect enough because they express themselves in a dignified enough manner (alternatively "in a sarcastic enough manner that I know for sure they're joking"). I cherry-pick how I get my news and opinions, so it's actually pretty rare that I ever see anything all that vile. Can it be masturbatory at times? Totally. There's times when I feel like certain sects of people I follow are just standing in a room together constantly shouting "omg me too!" at each other, but in the grander scheme of things, I'm still able to see the interesting things they share and opinions they have, so it's honestly better than the alternative, so I say.

Social media is indeed odd due to just how instantly you can seek someone out to praise/bash them. The same can be said for how easily you can seek yourself out to see just where you stand in social media public opinion. I remember I was complaining about a Spider-Man issue's high price tag on twitter without @-attaching anyone, and none other than Dan Slott, the current writer of the Spidey comics, replied to my ramblings, trying so earnestly to get me to see that $8 is a fair price for a 20-page comic. I guess what I'm saying is that social media works both ways. There do exist famous people that still have enough free time to actively search for their own name/stuff they've worked on and reply to meaningless ramblings a bit more defensively/earnestly than they should. It's not just the corporate accounts like Best Buy doing that!
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Valerius Dover » Tue Jan 05, 2016 6:56 pm

The whole idea of "teaching kids empathy" confuses me a bit. Isn't it supposed to be a basic mental function that humans have? "If I do this, the person will react like this". I think the real issue is that people don't seem to understand on anything more than a superficial level that they are communicating with real human beings. Having an opinion is fine, but attacking and blaming people is just barbaric.
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Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:25 pm

Valerius Dover wrote:The whole idea of "teaching kids empathy" confuses me a bit. Isn't it supposed to be a basic mental function that humans have?
Theoretically.

I don't claim to be a psychologist, so I couldn't write a paper on this, but just from observation, it seems to me that empathy is something that needs to be taught. The only difference is that, in earlier generations, you couldn't progress in life without empathy, so you didn't need another human being to teach it to you. Life itself would teach it to you. Your own life's challenges taught you empathy...but times have changed, and with it, so have life's challenges.

I don't mean to trash-talk millennials--especially since I am one--but it seems as though they there's an alarmingly common problem among them, which is that a lot of them were raised by parents who attended to their child's every little whim. If you have someone who has been spoiled by their parents, they grow up without the ability to understand that just because their parents felt like attending to their every need doesn't mean the world will have the same attitude. For the record, the world doesn't, and never will, have the same attitude. In any event, those spoiled children grow up to be adults who become infuriated when they can't get what they want. They don't see it as wrong, because that's how they were raised. They think that they should not only be able to get what they want, but that they should be able to get what they want without working for it. It's a very self-centered, "ME, ME, ME, I'M ALL THAT MATTERS, THE WORLD OWES ME JUST BECAUSE I WANT SOMETHING!"-mentality.

Unfortunately, that style of parenting seems to be on the rise, and with it, the number of adults with self-centered mentalities. I'm hoping it'll stop as the results of that parenting method become more obvious, but in the mean time, social media is filled with those people. They don't see it as "wrong" to trash-talk someone, because they were raised in an environment where they were the only human being that mattered. Their opinion is, "Other people? What other people?"

Granted, spoiled people have been around before millennials--long before millennials, for that matter--but they seem to be on the rise. Combine a self-centered attitude with the anonymity that social media offers, and the result is a bunch of jerks who can't empathize, and do need to be taught it by human beings.
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

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