Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, etc.

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: Kanzenshuu Staff, General Help

User avatar
JulieYBM
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 13474
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm
Contact:

Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:29 pm

I work with the public and a revolving door of young co-workers. Allow me to say that TheBlackPaladin is right on the nail. Youth don't understand a world where they have to do without or suffer.
She/Her | Practice self-care.

User avatar
Soppa Saia People
I Live Here
Posts: 2693
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:26 pm
Location: stillwater minnesota
Contact:

Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Soppa Saia People » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:38 pm

Fionordequester wrote:If it makes anyone feel any better, it's NOT true that posting like this on the Internet has no consequences. Companies actually DO make a point of checking what you posted on your Facebook, or Twitter, and other places, so you actually can end up suffering for what you post. So really, there's no such thing as an "action without consequences". Your actions will ALWAYS have consequences, not just for other people, but for yourself, no matter how small they may seem to be.

Now, another thing. I think it's important to remember that both sides of the fandom have people who are guilty of posting the way that person in the OP did. PenguinTruth, for example, was especially bad about that, and fortunately, VegettoEX put a stop to that some time ago. And I think that's important to remember, I think, because, at least as far as the Kanzenshuu website goes, old dub fans like me and Lord Exor are somewhat in the minority. It's a lot harder for us to just shrug off a vitriolic message, because as far as we can see, that's the majority opinion. So that makes it harder for us to remember that most people on Kanzenshuu aren't nearly that callous, even if they do happen to think that the old dub stinks.

So, there's your PSA for the month. Hope I didn't make TOO much of a mess of your soapbox :oops: ...
Not to derail the topic at hand but PenguinTruth got banned for attacking a member not for attacking FUNi staff members, though that likely played a factor to. But no really put a stopped to it (while aside from his banning but again unrelated).
Also if the post makes no sense and is really stupid and has no logic, I've haven't slept in 18 hours so if this post is nonsense I'll just edit to say something like nonsense.
It took all the coke in town, to bring down Dennis Brown

User avatar
Fionordequester
I Live Here
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Fionordequester » Tue Jan 05, 2016 7:44 pm

soppa saia people wrote:Not to derail the topic at hand but PenguinTruth got banned for attacking a member not for attacking FUNi staff members, though that likely played a factor to. But no really put a stopped to it (while aside from his banning but again unrelated).
I wasn't saying that attacking FUNi actors was something that got PenguinTruth banned. I'm saying that being overly nasty in how he talked to people online was what got him banned. Attacking "thatdbzguy" the way he did may have been the straw that finally broke the camel's back, but from what I understand, he was already warned about his behavior several times before that.

EDIT: Actually, PenguinTruth himself said as much, stating that he "had some previous strikes on his account" in his blog post here...
soppa saia people wrote:Also if the post makes no sense and is really stupid and has no logic, I've haven't slept in 18 hours so if this post is nonsense I'll just edit to say something like nonsense.
It's all good :P .
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

User avatar
Kamiccolo9
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10275
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:32 pm
Location: Regensburg, Germany

Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:19 pm

I think it's a vast simplification to say this is a "Millennial Problem." I mean, look at the current election in the U.S. Check out any Facebook thread dealing with any issue concerning any political thing. You'll see huge amounts of the kind of behavior mentioned in the OP from all age groups, not just the young 20-somethings that make up the Millennials.

If anything, Millennials are an easy scapegoat for the older generations to blame most the current problems on. And, in the same fashion, Millennials will tend to blame most of the current problems on the older groups. This is not a new thing. Every single generation goes through this, back to the Boomers, and the Silent Generation, and whatever you call the groups before that. There has always been a "old vs new" mentality. The current version of this conflict on social media is just the latest iteration of this age-old issue.

This is a people issue, not a generational one. Every generation goes through this. We just have now, as Mike has called it, the Social Media Echo-Chamber that makes it reverberate louder this time around. It'll happen again with the next generation, and the next one, and the next one, when the current groups of "young people" become "old people."

Blaming one specific group for this is showing an incredible disservice to that group. Your parents had the exact same issue with your grandparents, and so on. This time around is nothing special.
Champion of the 1st Kanzenshuu Short Story Tenkaichi Budokai
Kamiccolo9's Kompendium of Short Stories
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:
Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"

User avatar
Akumaito Beam
Regular
Posts: 649
Joined: Thu May 12, 2011 10:04 pm

Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Akumaito Beam » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:49 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote: This is a people issue, not a generational one. Every generation goes through this. We just have now, as Mike has called it, the Social Media Echo-Chamber that makes it reverberate louder this time around. It'll happen again with the next generation, and the next one, and the next one, when the current groups of "young people" become "old people."
Nailed it, I completely agree. Complaining about self centered youths who can't pull themselves up by their bootstraps and respect their elders and authority figures is a time honored tradition.

User avatar
Ajay
Moderator
Posts: 6126
Joined: Sun May 26, 2013 6:15 pm
Location: Surrey, UK
Contact:

Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Ajay » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:54 pm

I don't normally like to just +1 posts, but Kamiccolo9 hit the nail of the head. This isn't really anything new, it's just amplified through technology.
Follow me on Twitter for countless shitposts.

Deadtuber.

User avatar
JulieYBM
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 13474
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm
Contact:

Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Jan 05, 2016 9:56 pm

I did ask whether or not these sorts of fandom-centric attacks were due to age. No doubt baby boomers and those before millennial are crackpots, too, but are any of them acting like assholes over dem Chinese porn cartoons? Baby Boomers at least have the decency to tell you what they think in person and not just behind the veil of the internet.
She/Her | Practice self-care.

User avatar
Kamiccolo9
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10275
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:32 pm
Location: Regensburg, Germany

Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:07 pm

JulieYBM wrote:I did ask whether or not these sorts of fandom-centric attacks were due to age. No doubt baby boomers and those before millennial are crackpots, too, but are any of them acting like assholes over dem Chinese porn cartoons? Baby Boomers at least have the decency to tell you what they think in person and not just behind the veil of the internet.
No, instead you had those who went crazy over Elvis gyrating his hips, or women wearing, gasp, pants, or going berserk over comic books "corrupting the youth. There will always be people being "asshole" over some "thing" that's out now. Regardless of what some glossy-eyed older person will tell you, the "Golden Generation, " et al., was not some moral high point of humanity. They were the same greedy, selfish, rude, and inconsiderate assholes we are now.

And there are plenty of 60+ year olds being assholes on the internet. And anonymity is hardly a new thing. See any group of gossiping old farmers' wives ever. Or any group of church elders who have decided that things aren't "quite the way they should be."

Hell, America has literally had a war started over a tabloid article. And this was over a century before the internet allowed for a modern cult of ignorance.
Last edited by Kamiccolo9 on Wed Jan 06, 2016 11:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Champion of the 1st Kanzenshuu Short Story Tenkaichi Budokai
Kamiccolo9's Kompendium of Short Stories
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:
Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"

User avatar
JulieYBM
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 13474
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm
Contact:

Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:30 pm

Except we're discussing this in the context of the internet and fandom. Nobody was bitching about the King in any sort of anonymity or behind a [video game] microphone.
Last edited by JulieYBM on Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
She/Her | Practice self-care.

User avatar
TheBlackPaladin
I Live Here
Posts: 3591
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 10:05 pm

Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by TheBlackPaladin » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:34 pm

Well, my thought was not that self-centered mentalities are new--they're certainly not new, just like generational conflicts are not a new thing, and just like anonymity empowering people to say things on the internet that they wouldn't say to someone's face is not a new thing--but rather, my thought is that the extent of it seems to be new. At least it does to me, anecdotally speaking. Put another way, every generation has these problems, but it seems to me like millennials have it particularly bad.

Then again, that's just my impression. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if actual research would lead to a different conclusion. *Shrug.*
A "rather haggard" translation of a line from Future Gohan in DBZ, provided to FUNimation by Toei:
"To think of fighting that is this fun...so, it was pleasant fight, as many as, therefore is a feeling which is good the fight where."

User avatar
Fionordequester
I Live Here
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Fionordequester » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:39 pm

TheBlackPaladin wrote:Well, my thought was not that self-centered mentalities are new--they're certainly not new, just like generational conflicts are not a new thing, and just like anonymity empowering people to say things on the internet that they wouldn't say to someone's face is not a new thing--but rather, my thought is that the extent of it seems to be new. At least it does to me, anecdotally speaking. Put another way, every generation has these problems, but it seems to me like millennials have it particularly bad.

Then again, that's just my impression. I certainly wouldn't be surprised if actual research would lead to a different conclusion. *Shrug.*
So you're saying we're worse than where we were when slavery was still legal :P ? I'm kind of with Kamiccolo on this one...
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

User avatar
Kamiccolo9
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10275
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:32 pm
Location: Regensburg, Germany

Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Tue Jan 05, 2016 10:49 pm

JulieYBM wrote:Except we're discussing this in the context of the internet and fandom. Nobody was bitching about the King in any sort of anonymity or behind a [video game] microphone.
Because they didn't have the internet back then? This whole phenomenon is not new. There are just modern methods now. It used to be letters from "a concerned community," or "from anonymous supporters," or "the church feels that this is inappropriate," or "I had a vision where God told me I couldn't wear mixed fibers," Now it is forum accounts or twitter posts. In the future it'll be, I dunno, people sending anonymous psychic messages via the Head Linking Network or something.
Champion of the 1st Kanzenshuu Short Story Tenkaichi Budokai
Kamiccolo9's Kompendium of Short Stories
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:
Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"

User avatar
Gyt Kaliba
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8830
Joined: Fri Sep 28, 2007 1:38 am
Location: Arkansas
Contact:

Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Gyt Kaliba » Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:11 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:Because they didn't have the internet back then? This whole phenomenon is not new. There are just modern methods now. It used to be letters from "a concerned community," or "from anonymous supporters," or "the church feels that this is inappropriate," or "I had a vision where God told me I couldn't wear mixed fibers," Now it is forum accounts or twitter posts. In the future it'll be, I dunno, people sending anonymous psychic messages via the Head Linking Network or something.
And those forms of complaints and calls for censorship still happen often enough nowadays too. You don't even want to know how many complaint letters there were in a local newspaper here after there was a gay rights rally in town. It (the complaint letters, I mean) was absolutely disgusting.
BoosterZabi wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:What's with all of the love of Linda Young's Freeza voice all of a sudden? I remember everyone hated her voice for Freeza. I always remember would be like "Freeza sounds like a old lady!!", "Everyone thinks Freeza is a girl because of Linda Young!" and "I wish Freeza sound like a dude for once.". It seems like there is demand for Linda Young as Freeza when a lot of DBZ fans on the web back in the day had mixed to negative feelings for Freeza's pre Kai English voice.
The kiddies who watched it grew up and are nostalgically white washed thinking it was great. You would be surprised, there are some that believe the Bruce Falconer score was the OST. Sad part is, they make up a large chunk of the American Dragonball fanbase and their cries were loud enough that they pressured Funimation to bring back Australian Jeice (Xenoverse) and the monotone Android 18 voice actress (Kai's version was amazing not to mention attractive).
While you're right that a lot of people who grew up with Young are missing her now (something that's entirely within their rights to feel, even if I don't really agree with it even after having grown up with that voice as well), I'm not sure about the 'pressuring to bring people back' thing. At least, there hasn't been any proof of that that I've seen. And in all fairness too, I...really don't know what accent Liebrecht was going for with his Jeice, but I'll happily take Sabat's Australian Jeice over it any day, personally.
My Writing Endeavors - Twitter
"There are two kinds of folks who sit around thinking about how to kill people. Psychopaths, and mystery writers. I'm the kind that pays better." - Richard Castle, 'Castle'

User avatar
Pokewhiz7
I Live Here
Posts: 2195
Joined: Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:11 pm
Location: United States

Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Pokewhiz7 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 12:58 am

JulieYBM wrote:Social media is the [insofar?] ultimate culmination of western narcissism and "you can do anything you want" attitude.
Can you explain what you mean by the western narcissism "'you can do anything you want' attitude"? I don't want to indict someone if I'm not fully understanding what they're saying, but it sounds to me, as does most of your post in general, that you're telling people not to be expressive or strive to achieve their goals, that should just "learn their place", and not in a good way. Are you just saying it's inherently narcissistic (i.e. harmful) to seek an audience if they haven't produced something that you personally find worthy of sharing?

Zephyr
I Live Here
Posts: 3566
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:20 pm

Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Zephyr » Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:18 am

JulieYBM wrote:Social media is the [insofar?] ultimate culmination of western narcissism and "you can do anything you want" attitude.
I don't see anything distinctly "western" about narcissism, self serving behavior, flippant disregard for the well being of the "outgroup", or anonymous asshole-ish-ness, that couldn't be applied to humans in general. It feels unnecessarily biased against the west.

User avatar
Majin Buu
Regular
Posts: 572
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:23 pm

Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Majin Buu » Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:24 am

Zephyr wrote:I don't see anything distinctly "western" about narcissism, self serving behavior, flippant disregard for the well being of the "outgroup", or anonymous asshole-ish-ness, that couldn't be applied to humans in general. It feels unnecessarily biased against the west.
It's biased against the west because everyone involved is in the west. We don't have a whole lot of other cultural perspectives to compare with. Is eastern online culture just as bad?

User avatar
Kamiccolo9
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 10275
Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2013 9:32 pm
Location: Regensburg, Germany

Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:26 am

Pokewhiz7 wrote:
JulieYBM wrote:Social media is the [insofar?] ultimate culmination of western narcissism and "you can do anything you want" attitude.
Can you explain what you mean by the western narcissism "'you can do anything you want' attitude"? I don't want to indict someone if I'm not fully understanding what they're saying, but it sounds to me, as does most of your post in general, that you're telling people not to be expressive or strive to achieve their goals, that should just "learn their place", and not in a good way. Are you just saying it's inherently narcissistic (i.e. harmful) to seek an audience if they haven't produced something that you personally find worthy of sharing?
Western culture is (and I'm generalizing here) more heavily focused on the individual, while Eastern culture, and Japanese in particular, is more focused (and again, generalizing) on the collective/community. I could go into more detail if you want, but that would be off-topic and would kinda derail the thread.

Jacob, from what I've seen, anyway, tends to favor Japanese culture as opposed to that of the West. It seems to show a bit of bias to me in this case, as the attitude he's referring to is hardly limited to Western culture, but that's a different issue, and, again, off-topic.
Champion of the 1st Kanzenshuu Short Story Tenkaichi Budokai
Kamiccolo9's Kompendium of Short Stories
Cipher wrote:If Vegeta does not kill Gohan, I will stop illegally streaming the series.
Malik_DBNA wrote:
Scarz wrote:Malik, stop. People are asking me for lewd art of possessed Bra (with Vegeta).
"Achievement Unlocked: Rule 34"

Zephyr
I Live Here
Posts: 3566
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 9:20 pm

Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Zephyr » Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:33 am

Majin Buu wrote:
Zephyr wrote:I don't see anything distinctly "western" about narcissism, self serving behavior, flippant disregard for the well being of the "outgroup", or anonymous asshole-ish-ness, that couldn't be applied to humans in general. It feels unnecessarily biased against the west.
It's biased against the west because everyone involved is in the west. We don't have a whole lot of other cultural perspectives to compare with. Is eastern online culture just as bad?
I see absolutely zero reason to assume that it isn't. I'm talking about the general human behavior that is being manifested online. Humans, universally, have these tendencies. Obviously the people in the West being rude online would logically be an extension of that general human behavior to be rude; it would be unnecessarily presumptuous, however, to assume that people in the East are just magically immune to allowing this sort of human behavior to extend to the realm of the internet.

User avatar
Fionordequester
I Live Here
Posts: 2773
Joined: Wed Apr 20, 2011 6:33 pm

Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Fionordequester » Wed Jan 06, 2016 1:57 am

Zephyr wrote:I see absolutely zero reason to assume that it isn't. I'm talking about the general human behavior that is being manifested online. Humans, universally, have these tendencies. Obviously the people in the West being rude online would logically be an extension of that general human behavior to be rude; it would be unnecessarily presumptuous, however, to assume that people in the East are just magically immune to allowing this sort of human behavior to extend to the realm of the internet.
Indeed. Love it or hate it, humans are just human, with all the good and bad qualities that humans haves. We are absolutely wonderful in many ways, but also absolutely terrible in other ways. That's just the human condition unfortunately :| .
Kataphrut wrote:It's a bit of a Boy Who Cried Wolf situation to me...Basically, the boy shouldn't have cried wolf when the wolves just wanted to Go See Yamcha. If not, they might have gotten some help when the wolves came back to Make the Donuts.
Chuquita wrote:I liken Gokû Black to "guy can't stand his job, so instead of quitting and finding a job he likes, he instead sets fire not only to his workplace so he doesn't have to work there, but tries setting fire to every store in the franchise of that company".

User avatar
Kid Buu
I Live Here
Posts: 3970
Joined: Fri Nov 12, 2004 4:02 am

Re: Social Media: Attacking Staff, Hypocritical Opinions, et

Post by Kid Buu » Wed Jan 06, 2016 3:34 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote: Jacob, from what I've seen, anyway, tends to favor Japanese culture as opposed to that of the West. It seems to show a bit of bias to me in this case, as the attitude he's referring to is hardly limited to Western culture, but that's a different issue, and, again, off-topic.
Eh, I dunno if I'd call anyone biased. I mean, I consider myself a full-fledged weeaboo (posting on forums dedicated to a Japanese comic, playing Japanese video games, and even having JPOP stuff), but I can't view myself as someone or anyone on the forum as biased. Rather, I'd say it is more of a "grass is always greener on the other side" situation. We all live and breathe Western culture, the good and bad of it. In comparison, we rarely experience much of Japanese culture outside of their media and what we see on the internet, so our exposure is limited. Well, unless you live in Japan, which a few people here do...
Rocketman wrote:"Shonen" basically means "stupid sentimental shit" anyway, so it's ok to be anti-shonen.

Post Reply