DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

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Re: DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

Post by ABED » Fri Jan 15, 2016 10:16 am

DanielSSJ wrote:
ABED wrote:Stakes are higher, arguably, though I don't think that's enough to make it better. I also wouldn't consider the battles more spectacular. I don't love most of the fights in Z nearly as much as I loved the fight between Tenshinhan and Jackie Chun or Goku vs. Kuririn at the 22nd TB. I don't think there's as much character or emotion in most of the fights in Z as there are in those two. Also, part of the problem is that the sense of scale becomes difficult to demonstrate after you have characters who can destroy planets with a flick of their finger. In DB, the escalation could be shown and not simply talked about.
When I said the battles are more spectacular, I didn't mean that they were better. I meant that they were more of a spectacle, as in they were bigger and flashier. I think Dragon Ball had the better fights, since the outcomes weren't determined solely by who could hit harder. Anyways, I was trying to explain why Dragon Ball Z in more popular than Dragon Ball, not why it is better. In my opinion Dragon Ball blows DBZ out of the water.
Thanks for the clarification.
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Re: DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

Post by EXBadguy » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:36 am

Meh, it is what it is. I'm one of the people who watched Z before DB and to this day I think that Z's story(Saiyan to Cell) and characterization is much better than DB/part 1. The only thing DB has over Z are some of the fights and the fighting styles. The story in part 1 is just too stupid and childish for my liking, and the only sagas that really intrigued me were the Baba saga(very poignant saga!), King Piccolo, and 23rd World Tournament. If I watched DB before Z, I think I wouldn't have been a fan the franchise. It's crazy, cuz even Japan doesn't care about part 1, as there hasn't been any material for it since '96.

I do however feel for the Yamcha fanboys now, because of the way Gohan's treated in Super. Yamcha was an okay character in DB, then turned into a bitch-ass loser in Z. For Gohan, he was a good character with potential to a lot of people, and now look where he is. However I still can't stop laughing at the Yamcha jokes, cuz they are funny!
Bullza wrote:Dragon Ball is a good anime but it's a little bland compared to Dragon Ball Z.

DBZ introduced some of the series most popular characters while getting rid of most of the annoying comic relief characters.

The story was more interesting and varied.

There were more memorable moments and fights.

The music was better because Faulconer scored it.

The show in general didn't look as dated and just didn't have as much gag humour.

The filler is vastly superior especially from the Cell saga onwards.
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Re: DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

Post by Soppa Saia People » Fri Jan 15, 2016 5:16 pm

EXBadguy wrote:Meh, it is what it is. I'm one of the people who watched Z before DB and to this day I think that Z's story(Saiyan to Cell) and characterization is much better than DB/part 1. The only thing DB has over Z are some of the fights and the fighting styles. The story in part 1 is just too stupid and childish for my liking, and the only sagas that really intrigued me were the Baba saga(very poignant saga!), King Piccolo, and 23rd World Tournament. If I watched DB before Z, I think I wouldn't have been a fan the franchise. It's crazy, cuz even Japan doesn't care about part 1, as there hasn't been any material for it since '96.
Yeah Japan didn't care about :lolno: you do relieza without "part one" there wouldn't be Z ? Also Japan just released the part of the full color manga for the og Dragon Ball.
Bullza wrote:
DBZ introduced some of the series most popular characters while getting rid of most of the annoying comic relief characters.
I think it's the opposite Z took some of the more interesting characters and turn then into just sonic relief (IE Roshi), and no Z do not get rid of the comic relief characters, all of the main characters in the last arc of DB are the main characters in the saiyan arc. Also besides the main villains and Gohan and Trunks (sorry Goten fans) I can't think of any stand out characters in Z.
The music was better because Faulconer scored it
One it's not the real music for the show and two the way you phrased it sounds like Faulconer could shit out music and it would be okay because Faulconer.
Sorry if this post looks messy or I misspelled words, I'm currently dealing with a pretty serious head injury.
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Re: DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sat Jan 16, 2016 3:42 pm

Really ? If you ask me both Piccolos sagas suck and next to Cell saga are the worst arcs, what do you think is so good about them.
You and I must like the series for very different reasons, then. =P
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Re: DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

Post by Soppa Saia People » Sat Jan 16, 2016 4:31 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:
Really ? If you ask me both Piccolos sagas suck and next to Cell saga are the worst arcs, what do you think is so good about them.
You and I must like the series for very different reasons, then. =P
Not really, I just think that there not memorably (Piccolo JR), bore me (Piccolo) or just a shit story (Cell). Even if it wasn't Dragon Ball I would still dislike those arcs.
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Re: DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

Post by Kuririn Fan » Tue Feb 09, 2016 5:45 am

MozillaVulpix wrote:I honestly do enjoy the Z-era more than Dragon Ball, even if the earlier sections had more of a coherent story and better foreshadowing.

Obviously, in terms of pure scale, the Z-era outclasses Dragon Ball by a huge margin. That's one thing that still makes DBZ stand out from the countless other shonen action series out there. There aren't many other series where "destroying a planet" becomes a relatively simple feat halfway through the series. It's what got the Western fanbase interested in the series in the first place, and it's the thing that Toei and Toriyama are still focusing on in their newer materials.

That, and Dragon Ball has a much larger focus on gag humour, which makes the situations a lot less believable, and thus a lot less relatable.

Let's put it this way: Dragon Ball may have an objectively better story, but there's a reason people still focus on the Z-era. It's not just that "everyone in the world has terrible taste". It's that the Z-era did things with its story and characters that people really connected to. I don't think its success is purely because the Z-era had a larger focus on individual, climactic moments.
No, it has more to do with the fact that West began with Z, i know a lot of people who love DB more than Z, once they learned that it exists. And "epic, badass moments" dont make up for shitty, out of character, plot holes ridden writing. And of course they're focused on the "Z era", its the most recent one, Dragon Ball as a whole has a sense of nice progression, it wouldnt make sense to go back to a time where characters couldnt fly, for example.

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Re: DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

Post by Deathbringer » Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:23 pm

This thread has turned into a DB vs DBZ thread and I'm not sure if that was the intention but it's bound to always happen.

As for me I watched DB before immediately moving onto DBZ and I don't really consider the series to be in 2 parts especially because Toriyama never divided his manga into 2 parts, that was Toei's decision. I sometimes wonder how different the fandom would be if they decided to keep the name as just "Dragon Ball" from Pilaf to Boo.

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Re: DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

Post by DuckBoy » Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:51 pm

Thing is right, the whole series is called Dragonball right? So, start from the beginning to the end. That's why I hate the divide, it gives the misconception that the both are different in so many ways.

Thing is, right, the tone shifted very very slowly. If you were watching or reading the whole things as it went on, perhaps it seemed seemless even!

That's why I hate how games start at Raditz.. Why not a game that goes through literally everything? Start at Goku's youth to the fight against Buu.

It's a bit like how bloody Ducktales makes a huge portion of people not realize that yes.. DONALD DUCK was a huge part of the Scrooge stories! All of Donald's adventures are unknown to Ducktales fans, AH well.

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Re: DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

Post by Kuririn Fan » Tue Feb 09, 2016 3:11 pm

Guys, i know that it's one series, trust me, i know a thing or two about this franchise. I was just talking about underrating original Dragon Ball anime or straight up not knowing it exists.
Last edited by Kuririn Fan on Wed Feb 10, 2016 6:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

Post by trick007z » Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:32 pm

DuckBoy wrote:Thing is right, the whole series is called Dragonball right? So, start from the beginning to the end. That's why I hate the divide, it gives the misconception that the both are different in so many ways.

Thing is, right, the tone shifted very very slowly. If you were watching or reading the whole things as it went on, perhaps it seemed seemless even!

That's why I hate how games start at Raditz.. Why not a game that goes through literally everything? Start at Goku's youth to the fight against Buu.

It's a bit like how bloody Ducktales makes a huge portion of people not realize that yes.. DONALD DUCK was a huge part of the Scrooge stories! All of Donald's adventures are unknown to Ducktales fans, AH well.
And I think that's a big issue. Because most North American fans were introduced to the series through the Saiyan arc, and then their first impression of Dragon Ball was the Hunt for the Dragon Ball arc. Which not for nothing, but that's the most unique saga of the whole series. It radically shifts almost immediately once Goku goes to train for the tournament. From their it's a traditional shonen series that only escalated from Goku fighting strong martial artists, to an army, to demons, to aliens, to androids, to monsters.

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Re: DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

Post by Zenith » Thu Feb 11, 2016 6:36 am

MarCas92 wrote:Not accounting for nostalgia, a lot of people (including myself) feel that the first half(?)/part is better than the second. Kid Goku's adventure's as a child are just better told and quite frankly more cohesive and interesting narratives. However, no one can deny the impact the Z portion of the story has not only in anime but pop culture as a whole.

Could it be the reason the Z portion is more popular and loved by most fans is because it has higher points?

Think of all the iconic moments in the franchise. They are mostly Z: The SSJ Transformation, the SSJ2 Transformation, Father Son Kamehameha, Trunks killing Freeza.

Don't get me wrong, the first half has iconic moments as well. Most notably Goku punching a hole through Piccolo Daimao. But comparing the two, it''s clear that the original DB never reaches the same heights that Z reaches. Why do you feel that is? Do feel that may also be the reason why most people gloss over the first part of the series?

I mean, the Android Arc is by far my least favorite part of the franchise. I don't think it's the worst,but it's definitely my least favorite. But again, when I think of some of my favorite moments in the franchise, a large majority are from there: Trunks killing Freeza, Goku dying, Goku talking to Gohan from Kaio's, Goku vs Cell, Tenshinhans Kikoho etc.

Maybe its a symptom/cause effects. Maybe it's not that people prefer DBZ because it has more memorable moments, maybe it has more memorable moments because they prefer that part of the story. Maybe it's just an exposure thing?
I would have to agree with your assessment that original DB never reaches the same heights as Z. While DB is more consistent throughout, it never reaches any truly epic points like DBZ does. At least not nearly on the same level.

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Re: DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

Post by DevoSlice88 » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:22 pm

Hey guys I'm new to posting on Kanzanshuu. I first watched DBZ as a kid on Toonami and was instantly hooked to it from like 9- my early teenage years. I saw all of DBZ and watched most of DB but never finished it, and also never saw GT. Then I just kinda grew out of it and went to college and got into other things you know, shitty 9-5 adult life. I'm in my late 20s now and About a year and a half ago I heard about the new DBZ movies coming out I just got a nostalgic feeling to want to watch the new movies and my old favorite childhood show again. I watched the new movies, then DBZ again all the way through and loved it all over again. I then decided to watch Dragon Ball again but this time all the way through and watch GT for the first time so I did. Sorry about that into this is just my first post here so just giving you a background on my fandom.

In regards to the topic, I too at first thought that I always preferred DBZ to DB because I saw DBZ first and that's the show I fell in love with. As a kid I just loved the epicness of all the battles and all the villains were just awesome. So when I went back to watch DB I, like many others have said on this thread, just didn't find it as exciting as DBZ just because I was used to the epic, huge battles that took place on threats of universal destruction. So I completely think this is why many people think the same way. But when I watched DB all the way through recently, I found a whole new appreciation for it and I love it. The DB and DBZ anime is absolutely all one cohesive story and it should be taken and enjoyed as one story.

I do see the point of why Toei split it into two animes because all of the story lines after the 23rd World Tournament were tied up nicely and DB just seemed like the end of the first part of the story with Goku getting married and settling down. Then the story picks up 5 years later in Z with Raditz arriving on Earth. I'm in total agreement that it is definitely all one continuing storyline through both animes and should be enjoyed as such. But on the other hand I can understand why it was split up because it was a clear break in the story.

I look forward to posting a lot more on these forums, I creeped around for a bit before I finally made an account and you guys all seem like fun people who share my love for the Dragon Ball franchise. :D

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Re: DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

Post by sintzu » Tue Mar 15, 2016 7:30 pm

DevoSlice88 wrote:
I look forward to posting a lot more on these forums, I creeped around for a bit before I finally made an account and you guys all seem like fun people who share my love for the Dragon Ball franchise. :D
Welcome to the party. :mrgreen:
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Re: DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

Post by z_cherub » Wed Mar 16, 2016 11:00 am

DevoSlice88 wrote:Hey guys I'm new to posting on Kanzanshuu. I first watched DBZ as a kid on Toonami and was instantly hooked to it from like 9- my early teenage years. I saw all of DBZ and watched most of DB but never finished it, and also never saw GT. Then I just kinda grew out of it and went to college and got into other things you know, shitty 9-5 adult life. I'm in my late 20s now and About a year and a half ago I heard about the new DBZ movies coming out I just got a nostalgic feeling to want to watch the new movies and my old favorite childhood show again. I watched the new movies, then DBZ again all the way through and loved it all over again. I then decided to watch Dragon Ball again but this time all the way through and watch GT for the first time so I did. Sorry about that into this is just my first post here so just giving you a background on my fandom.

In regards to the topic, I too at first thought that I always preferred DBZ to DB because I saw DBZ first and that's the show I fell in love with. As a kid I just loved the epicness of all the battles and all the villains were just awesome. So when I went back to watch DB I, like many others have said on this thread, just didn't find it as exciting as DBZ just because I was used to the epic, huge battles that took place on threats of universal destruction. So I completely think this is why many people think the same way. But when I watched DB all the way through recently, I found a whole new appreciation for it and I love it. The DB and DBZ anime is absolutely all one cohesive story and it should be taken and enjoyed as one story.

I do see the point of why Toei split it into two animes because all of the story lines after the 23rd World Tournament were tied up nicely and DB just seemed like the end of the first part of the story with Goku getting married and settling down. Then the story picks up 5 years later in Z with Raditz arriving on Earth. I'm in total agreement that it is definitely all one continuing storyline through both animes and should be enjoyed as such. But on the other hand I can understand why it was split up because it was a clear break in the story.

I look forward to posting a lot more on these forums, I creeped around for a bit before I finally made an account and you guys all seem like fun people who share my love for the Dragon Ball franchise. :D
I wish more people could see it your way as opposed to, "lol why Goku a kid? Where's muh Sooper Say-yanz? This be boring, fam!"

There are fans that appreciate the humor & charm along with the action, & there are those that just want to see every character turn SSJ3 and hit each other in every episode. The latter tend to not appreciate DB.

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Re: DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

Post by DevoSlice88 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:02 am

sintzu wrote:
DevoSlice88 wrote:
I look forward to posting a lot more on these forums, I creeped around for a bit before I finally made an account and you guys all seem like fun people who share my love for the Dragon Ball franchise. :D
Welcome to the party. :mrgreen:
Thanks bro, good to be here

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Re: DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

Post by DevoSlice88 » Thu Mar 17, 2016 2:07 am

z_cherub wrote:
DevoSlice88 wrote:Hey guys I'm new to posting on Kanzanshuu. I first watched DBZ as a kid on Toonami and was instantly hooked to it from like 9- my early teenage years. I saw all of DBZ and watched most of DB but never finished it, and also never saw GT. Then I just kinda grew out of it and went to college and got into other things you know, shitty 9-5 adult life. I'm in my late 20s now and About a year and a half ago I heard about the new DBZ movies coming out I just got a nostalgic feeling to want to watch the new movies and my old favorite childhood show again. I watched the new movies, then DBZ again all the way through and loved it all over again. I then decided to watch Dragon Ball again but this time all the way through and watch GT for the first time so I did. Sorry about that into this is just my first post here so just giving you a background on my fandom.

In regards to the topic, I too at first thought that I always preferred DBZ to DB because I saw DBZ first and that's the show I fell in love with. As a kid I just loved the epicness of all the battles and all the villains were just awesome. So when I went back to watch DB I, like many others have said on this thread, just didn't find it as exciting as DBZ just because I was used to the epic, huge battles that took place on threats of universal destruction. So I completely think this is why many people think the same way. But when I watched DB all the way through recently, I found a whole new appreciation for it and I love it. The DB and DBZ anime is absolutely all one cohesive story and it should be taken and enjoyed as one story.

I do see the point of why Toei split it into two animes because all of the story lines after the 23rd World Tournament were tied up nicely and DB just seemed like the end of the first part of the story with Goku getting married and settling down. Then the story picks up 5 years later in Z with Raditz arriving on Earth. I'm in total agreement that it is definitely all one continuing storyline through both animes and should be enjoyed as such. But on the other hand I can understand why it was split up because it was a clear break in the story.

I look forward to posting a lot more on these forums, I creeped around for a bit before I finally made an account and you guys all seem like fun people who share my love for the Dragon Ball franchise. :D
I wish more people could see it your way as opposed to, "lol why Goku a kid? Where's muh Sooper Say-yanz? This be boring, fam!"

There are fans that appreciate the humor & charm along with the action, & there are those that just want to see every character turn SSJ3 and hit each other in every episode. The latter tend to not appreciate DB.
Yeah I feel like you have to be one of those ppl who are just stuck in their ways and don't fathom another point of view that fucks with their own. "DBZ is waaaay more badazz cuz of the sick azz flying fights and blowing shit upzz " It's just like a wicked closed mind way to see the story. And they've prolly never given DB a solid chance.

Anyone who thinks they're a fan of the series has to watch it from beginning to end at least once, or they just won't fuckin get it.

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Re: DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

Post by Footlong Shoe » Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:08 am

I've always enjoyed the Dragon Ball portion of the story more than the Z portion. Don't get me wrong, I still love Dragon Ball Z, but insane fights and planet-destroying attacks aren't the reason I got into the franchise.

I was exposed to the DB manga first by one of my friends, and I loved it for all the dumb jokes and charm. That charm is what I love about the series, and the reason I came back to it later.

Personal preference clearly has to do with which part of the series you like more. Obviously that isn't true for everyone, but it only makes since that the part that made you want to see more would be more enjoyable to you.
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Re: DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

Post by Desassina » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:31 am

The best Dragon Ball RPG that I played, Attack of the Saiyans, used the Tournament as a starting point for the Saiyan arc. However, this tournament was not a set up like the one preceding the Babidi saga was, so we'd have to go through an ending nonetheless. I think that Dragon Ball Kai has done a good job, as a remaster and a testament of the show's popularity, without the possiblity of an adaptation, which most games have. The original Dragon Ball anime is still watchable, although we could use an official and international uncut version.

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Re: DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

Post by Danfun64 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:53 am

Desassina wrote:The original Dragon Ball anime is still watchable, although we could use an official and international uncut version.
Could you explain what you mean by that? Do you think the original Dragon Ball should get the Kai treatment?
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Re: DB and DBZ: Parts vs Whole

Post by Kuririn Fan » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:56 am

Dragon Ball doesn't need Kai version. It need a complete reanimation together with Z, that follows manga perfectly. One series, like it's supposed to be. And they do that for 50th anniversary. That's probably never gonna happen.

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