Frieza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

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Re: Freeza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

Post by omaro34 » Tue Jan 19, 2016 1:21 am

Frieza was the best villain in Dragonball before the ROF movie, and this is mainly due to his characteristics, back story, and personality. He is the only villain that is written the best, being the galactic dictator whose name is heard all over the universe. Not many villains are as cold, cautious, selfish, and ruthless as Frieza.. No other villain has a galactic army and empire like Frieza did. He paved the way for other villains in other shows as well.

As far as him being the strongest villain in the show to date, the idea that he is a prodigy came out of nowhere and the audience ask themselves why didn't he train even a little throughout his life to ensure nobody challenges his strength? I mean if he was that scared of the Saiyans, yeah he could blow the planet up which he did, but he could easily train and continue to enslave the Saiyan race.

But oh well. Toriyama has always improvised on his writing over the years, which is the root cause of many inconsistencies.
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Re: Freeza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

Post by trick007z » Tue Jan 19, 2016 7:42 pm

rereboy wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: Freeza was desperate for revenge as it was the first time is God knows how many years that someone had challenged him and humbled him. Knowing how vain Freeza is, it fits into his character that he would his desperation for revenge getter the better of common sense. Besides, didn't Freeza state that cybernetic enhancements make him stronger than how he was on Namek? I wouldn't suprise that Freeza took that as an assumption to being strong enough to handle SSJ Goku.
Freeza was also depicted as a calculating and careful villain that took no big unnecessary chances, which is why he eliminated the saiyans before they caused trouble and why he called for the Ginyu force to come to Namek when even Zarbon said there was simply no need for that, to which Freeza responded that he felt that the future might be dangerous.

Freeza wasn't just a stupid spoiled brat that detested being inferior to anyone. He also had those qualities and even though his arrogance might make him do stupid actions in the heat of battle (like attacking Goku while he was leaving Namek), to think that when he had all of the time in the world and was nowhere near the heat of battle, Freeza wouldn't be even a little bit calculating and careful like he had been previously portrayed to be, even when that had cost him half his body, is simply too much.
trick007z wrote:
When would he have trained?

Prior to Namek the closest fighter to his level was probably Captain Ginyu, who he could probably defeat in the same fashion Beerus beat SSJ3 Goku, if he was in his final form. There is literally no reason to train when you are that far above everybody. Put this in perspective, Goku at his absolute peak in base form couldn't even touch Freeza at a fraction of his full strength. It took going to some mythic legendary stage that nobody was even sure existed for someone to finally surpass Freeza. And without that transformation, Freeza can just toy with everyone.

After Namek, we don't know enough. Could he even train with a cyborg body? If he could, how long did it take him to even become functional? Too many questions there.

Then there is no way in hell he actually got a body post death, so he couldn't train like Goku.
After Namek he had all the time in the world. He could have spent years developing his power, there was nothing stopping him. And there is absolutely nothing to suggest that he couldn't become stronger. He still had a natural Ki that, even with half his body missing, was as strong or stronger than before. And according to Toriyama, even androids like #18, that don't even have a natural Ki to be sensed, can become stronger by training.
Muffin Man wrote:
I don't get this logic. I mean, how much does the average person train? Training is fucking hard. It makes far more sense for a guy born as powerful as Freeza to be a lazy, untrained asshole. He has never had a reason to train and has never been put in a circumstance where he felt anything close to motivation to exert himself.

Even after his defeat on Namek, he had no motivation to train since his cyborg enhancements had made him stronger than ever, so he obviously believed he could win without training.

It's perfectly realistic (which isn't a common occurrence in DB) that a guy like Freeza would need to have literally every other option exhausted before finally being pushed to train. Just because training comes easily to the typical shonen hero doesn't mean it's actually easy. It requires hours upon hours upon hours of rigorous, boring, repetitive dedication to a specific task. Very few people actually have a disciplined enough mindset to train effectively.
Read above.

Freeza had been depicted as a careful and calculating villain, not just a stupid spoiled brat. He had all of these qualities in him, which made him more complex and interesting.

What happens in Super completely erases any traces of that careful and calculating qualities that he had, and makes him a 100% stupid spoiled brat.
After Namek he was on clock to beat Goku to Earth before he got there. Also we have NO IDEA whether he could increase his power in his Cyborg body.

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Re: Freeza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

Post by nickzambuto » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:18 am

omaro34 wrote:Freeza was the best villain in Dragonball before the ROF movie, and this is mainly due to his characteristics, back story, and personality. He is the only villain that is written the best, being the galactic dictator whose name is heard all over the universe. Not many villains are as cold, cautious, selfish, and ruthless as Freeza.. No other villain has a galactic army and empire like Freeza did. He paved the way for other villains in other shows as well.

As far as him being the strongest villain in the show to date, the idea that he is a prodigy came out of nowhere and the audience ask themselves why didn't he train even a little throughout his life to ensure nobody challenges his strength? I mean if he was that scared of the Saiyans, yeah he could blow the planet up which he did, but he could easily train and continue to enslave the Saiyan race.

But oh well. Toriyama has always improvised on his writing over the years, which is the root cause of many inconsistencies.
The second strongest person outside of Freeza's family was Captain Ginyu, who was literally 1,000 times weaker than Freeza... why on Earth would Freeza bother training to "ensure nobody challenges his strength" when that is the closest anyone has ever come? You can't get much more assured than that...

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Re: Freeza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

Post by rereboy » Wed Jan 20, 2016 12:04 pm

trick007z wrote:
After Namek he was on clock to beat Goku to Earth before he got there.
Why? What does it matter? Compared to becoming WAY more powerful by training a bit, what advantage could he get by arriving on Earth faster than Goku? None important, just trivial advantages like killing earthlings while he waits for Goku. That just makes him look stupid and not at all calculating and careful like he was also portrayed.
Also we have NO IDEA whether he could increase his power in his Cyborg body.
Sure, but if I assume that he can get stronger, I do it because he still had a natural Ki that could be felt and because pretty much all characters with biological parts could get stronger by training in DB (including Future Gohan that had an arm missing, and the actual androids according to Toriyama's statements).

If you assume that he can't, why are you doing it? Was there ever any character with biological parts who couldn't get stronger in Dragon Ball by training? No. Basically that's just a theory to minimize the fact that Super/ROF introduced stuff that clashes with previous stuff and didn't offer a satisfying explanation for those clashes.
nickzambuto wrote: The second strongest person outside of Freeza's family was Captain Ginyu, who was literally 1,000 times weaker than Freeza... why on Earth would Freeza bother training to "ensure nobody challenges his strength" when that is the closest anyone has ever come? You can't get much more assured than that...
Sure, but Freeza destroyed the saiyans when they started to get a little powerful and even called the Ginyu force when even Zarbon thought that there was no need. Meaning that, despite his enormous strength and arrogance, Freeza was also calculating and careful. Elements that are completely forgotten in Super/ROF.

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Re: Freeza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

Post by Faustus » Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:21 pm

That comparison is hardly apt or even fair; Cyborg Freeza is overwhelmingly (50%+) cybernetic, whereas #17 & #18 are still mostly biological.

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Re: Freeza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

Post by rereboy » Wed Jan 20, 2016 2:46 pm

Faustus wrote:That comparison is hardly apt or even fair; Cyborg Freeza is overwhelmingly (50%+) cybernetic, whereas #17 & #18 are still mostly biological.
The androids have had significant changes to how their Ki works as proven by the fact that they no longer have a natural Ki that can be sensed. The actual percentage of their body that was modified doesn't change the fact that they underwent those significant changes regarding how their Ki works.

Despite this, the author still says that the androids can get stronger by training.

Freeza, on the other hand, has no stated changes in how his Ki works.

Assuming that Freeza can't become stronger by training due to his artificial parts, when even the androids are able to do it despite undergoing significant changes to how their Ki works while Freeza has no stated difference in how his Ki works, would be illogical.
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Re: Freeza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

Post by Bacon Skittles » Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:16 pm

Freeza may be the strongest, though I'm sure Champa will become a new villain, but Cell has the potential to be the strongest.

I've been against Freeza being revived because this is like what, the third time we've seen this? So why is Freeza's return in this time any different than previous ones? Cell should have returned, not Freeza.

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Re: Freeza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

Post by SSJ2FutureGohan » Wed Jan 20, 2016 5:24 pm

Bullza wrote:Nah it still shits all over anything from GT.
Let me guess, just because Toriyama wrote it?

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Re: Freeza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:00 pm

It's perfectly understandable as to why Freeza didn't train before going to earth. He acquired new power through his cybernetic upgrade and he had Cold's power for additional help.

Showing Goku his new power was more important than simply getting revenge. He could've destroyed the planet from space if that was all he cared about, but he didn't. Freeza wanted to prove he was better than Goku.
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Re: Freeza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

Post by rereboy » Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:10 pm

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:It's perfectly understandable as to why Freeza didn't train before going to earth. He acquired new power through his cybernetic upgrade and he had Cold's power for additional help.

Showing Goku his new power was more important than simply getting revenge. He could've destroyed the planet from space if that was all he cared about, but he didn't. Freeza wanted to prove he was better than Goku.
That's all fine and well... If he didn't require merely 4 months for him to almost rival Beerus in power (and he knew about it).

Freeza is brought back from the dead and he immediately knows that by training for a few months he can surpass a Goku that has developed for decades and has even killed Buu, who Cold told him to never mess with. Well, then choosing not to do so when your scientists put you back together is pretty stupid, isn't it...

Heck, even if his cibernetics impeded somewhat his progress, if he got 1/10th of that progress in 4 months he would still be way stronger than anyone at the Cell saga.

Knowing this and still choosing to go immediately after Goku/Earth just shows stupidity. There isn't an ounce of the early calculating and careful Freeza in it.

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Re: Freeza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Wed Jan 20, 2016 6:38 pm

The scenario's are different. Freeza was under the impression that his cybernetics gave him the advantage over Goku, which is why he was excited at the idea of showing him how "new and improved" he was compared to on namek. After being gone for awhile and hearing about Boo's defeat, Freeza knew he couldn't blindly challenge Goku at his current level because he'd likely lose easily.

It isn't really stupid when you consider that he was put back together with far greater power than he's ever had. Goku told Freeza it was pointless fighting because his 100% power began to drain his energy--and later says he'll need to get his stamina back and learn a few techniques if he wanted a rematch. Freeza most likely assumed Goku was still an opponent he could conceivably beat at that point, since he was able to put up a fight before his stamina depleted.

With the mechanization giving him a significant power-up, it's understandable as to why he choose this option over training. Had he been rebuilt with no additional power or no Cold, it's possible he would've trained before challenging Goku, but that's something we'll never know. He had reasons for not training before, but that was different in RoF. Freeza might've been calculating, but that doesn't mean he's always going to exercise sound judgement on everything. Goku handed him his first defeat in an embarrassing fashion and he wasn't going to just keep waiting to challenge him again; especially with that new power he acquired.
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Re: Freeza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

Post by rereboy » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:19 am

Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:The scenario's are different. Freeza was under the impression that his cybernetics gave him the advantage over Goku, which is why he was excited at the idea of showing him how "new and improved" he was compared to on namek.
Sure, but Freeza also didn't need to wipe out the saiyans. He just thought it was prudent. He also didn't need to call in the Ginyu force. He just thought it was prudent.

So, Freeza might think that he won't need to train to beat Goku thanks to his improvements, but it would undeniably be prudent.

In short, we have a Freeza that won't risk things like having the saiyans around even though they are pretty useful for him, but he will risk not training after his defeat, even though he knows how much stronger he would become...? At that if he fails he will die?
Super Saiyan Turlast x4 wrote:
It isn't really stupid when you consider that he was put back together with far greater power than he's ever had.
He would have far greater power if he was multiple times stronger than before but unless you believe that Goku increased in power several times from when he was in Namek to when he arrived on Earth, Freeza couldn't have increased that much at all. A significant power-up but nothing like becoming multiple times stronger.

However, if Freeza had trained a bit, he would have become hundreds of times stronger, perhaps thousands of times stronger. Now THAT would have been unquestionably far greater power.
With the mechanization giving him a significant power-up, it's understandable as to why he choose this option over training
Let's say that a student wants to have the highest score in the world in a certain exam and that he has previously fail to do so, even though he is used to having the highest score ever since he started taking that exam. Said student knows that if he studies for a bit his ability will improve hundreds of times, if not thousands of times. And he knows that if he doesn't take the highest score this time, he will die because his family will kill him over such disgrace and he narrowly escaped that fate the first time he failed. However, since he feels more ready and in better shape to take the exam this time around, he chooses to not study.

That student is as stupid as Freeza and, as Freeza, he doesn't have an ounce of qualities like being calculating and careful even though Freeza has been portrayed as careful and calculating.

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Re: Freeza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

Post by Super Saiyan Turlast x4 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:52 pm

rereboy wrote:Sure, but Freeza also didn't need to wipe out the saiyans. He just thought it was prudent.
He wiped the Saiyans out partially because of what they could become, but also because he disliked them in general. It wasn't just the possibility of them being Super Saiyans that drove him to that decision.
He also didn't need to call in the Ginyu force. He just thought it was prudent.
Because he had an odd premonition that a powerful Saiyan was somewhere getting stronger and stronger. A premonition is far different than reality. Not just that, but he also needed scouters to find the remaining dragon balls. Zarbon's incompetence didn't help matters, either.
So, Freeza might think that he won't need to train to beat Goku thanks to his improvements, but it would undeniably be prudent.
It wasn't just his upgrade. He also had another powerful being to make things easier (in his mind) in his upcoming battle if need be. There are literally no other options for Freeza in RoF outside of training. The Mechanization and King Cold at least makes Freeza decision to not train understandable. He wasn't going to earth empty-handed in his rematch.
In short, we have a Freeza that won't risk things like having the saiyans around even though they are pretty useful for him, but he will risk not training after his defeat, even though he knows how much stronger he would become...? At that if he fails he will die?
Simple. Freeza didn't think he'd lose this time around because he thought his new power-up was enough to change the outcome. If his new power alone wasn't enough, he had King Cold by his side to make the battle (again in his mind) an easy victory. He had a plan a and a plan b. That's really what it comes down to. He just happened to overestimate himself.
He would have far greater power if he was multiple times stronger than before but unless you believe that Goku increased in power several times from when he was in Namek to when he arrived on Earth, Freeza couldn't have increased that much at all. A significant power-up but nothing like becoming multiple times stronger.
Of course. However, it's clear that he thought his new power was enough, which is why he said he'll show Goku that he's the strongest in the universe. If he didn't believe it was enough, he wouldn't have said that. Freeza made ridiculous gains in RoF, but he still didn't take the time to iron the kinks out in his Golden form. This shows that Freeza doesn't always think things through--and is pretty susceptible to making rash decisions. Knowing what we know now, Freeza's mind was bent on revenge and he took the easy way out. He's not above that, so we don't need to assume that he is.
However, if Freeza had trained a bit, he would have become hundreds of times stronger, perhaps thousands of times stronger. Now THAT would have been unquestionably far greater power.
Well, yeah. We know his mechanization pales in comparison to his actual dormant power, but he took the easier option over the more difficult one. Freeza didn't think Goku was so far beyond him that he'd need to train, which is why he thought his Mecha power would be the deciding factor in the rematch. In RoF, when he learned that Goku defeated Boo, he knew his dormant power had to be brought out if he had any hopes of winning.
Let's say that a student wants to have the highest score in the world in a certain exam and that he has previously fail to do so, even though he is used to having the highest score ever since he started taking that exam. Said student knows that if he studies for a bit his ability will improve hundreds of times, if not thousands of times. And he knows that if he doesn't take the highest score this time, he will die because his family will kill him over such disgrace and he narrowly escaped that fate the first time he failed. However, since he feels more ready and in better shape to take the exam this time around, he chooses to not study.
That student had no other alternative but to study. He didn't have a cheat sheet (Mecha) or a scumbag teacher (King Cold) to improve his chances at succeeding in the retest. That's exactly what Freeza had. The student can feel better all he wants, but his mind wasn't artificially enhanced and no one is there to help him in case he falters. The student is more comparable to Freeza in RoF, since that Freeza also had no other option to win but the obvious one.

Also, while some people are just naturally gifted in intelligence, they've at least done some semblance of studying throughout their life. The difference between them and others is that they were able to grasp the material at a quicker and easier rate than their peers. Freeza was born with a Battle Power far beyond comprehension and never once had to train. It was a foreign concept to him. He had to transform backwards because of the intense power he possessed. It's really not surprising that his mechanization would be enough to convince him that he was fine challenging Goku again.
That student is as stupid as Freeza and, as Freeza, he doesn't have an ounce of qualities like being calculating and careful even though Freeza has been portrayed as careful and calculating.
No, he isn't. The student never had the resources that Freeza did, so it's not really comparable.
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Re: Freeza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:07 pm

Frieza isn't the strongest villain. Remember GT? Bebi, hell fighter 17, shadow dragons all roflstomp him.

In the mangaverse yeah he is. I don't consider Vados and Champa as villains....more like antagonists at best. Not really evil. Neutral really. Someone will come and surpass him maybe, just maybe. I get people calling him the best in terms of who's the coolest. To me that honor may just go to cell..who has his cells in him.
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Re: Freeza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:20 pm

LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:Freeza isn't the strongest villain. Remember GT? Bebi, hell fighter 17, shadow dragons all roflstomp him.

In the mangaverse yeah he is. I don't consider Vados and Champa as villains....more like antagonists at best. Not really evil. Neutral really. Someone will come and surpass him maybe, just maybe. I get people calling him the best in terms of who's the coolest. To me that honor may just go to cell..who has his cells in him.
Nah. I only see one or two of the heavy hitters in GT near the same bracket as Golden Freeza. Hell, if were taking Super into considering, nobody can match Freeza's strength in GT. I mean, if were are taking raw strength at face value, Golden Freeza is conformably stronger than a SSJ God Goku, who at 100% of his strength had enough power in his raw punches that could lead to the universe becoming a null void. And none of the GT characters ever displayed or even hinted at that kind of strength.

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Re: Freeza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:28 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:Freeza isn't the strongest villain. Remember GT? Bebi, hell fighter 17, shadow dragons all roflstomp him.

In the mangaverse yeah he is. I don't consider Vados and Champa as villains....more like antagonists at best. Not really evil. Neutral really. Someone will come and surpass him maybe, just maybe. I get people calling him the best in terms of who's the coolest. To me that honor may just go to cell..who has his cells in him.
Nah. I only see one or two of the heavy hitters in GT near the same bracket as Golden Freeza. Hell, if were taking Super into considering, nobody can match Freeza's strength in GT. I mean, if were are taking raw strength at face value, Golden Freeza is conformably stronger than a SSJ God Goku, who at 100% of his strength had enough power in his raw punches that could lead to the universe becoming a null void. And none of the GT characters ever displayed or even hinted at that kind of strength.

Logically speaking they are if you scale the powers. Why don't we see goku destroy the universes with punches in GT? Simple. He has CONTROL of his power.
I mean seriously, Goku doing that in super was silly. He does that vs beerus, but vs golden frieza whos above Beerus suppressed in the BOG in a STRONGER form.....nothing happens. Beerus vs champa in episode 28-no universe busting.

Dragonball fighters for a while have been universe busters, it's just that goku was new to the god thing and had no control.

Beerus-needs 10% on a mid buu saga tired and damaged ssj2 vegeta.

Omega shenron-owns 2 ssj4's easily. SSj4 is over 20x ssj3 gt goku in the bebi arc....and ssj3 goku is 400x gt base goku....who was above base rildo who's above buuhan/kid buu...and that was when he wasn't even powered up yet.

I mean if goku's base power is 5k in the buu saga before powering up his base form....what is rildo's base 100% after going from "stronger then majin buu"....


Gt characters are stronger. Unless Toriyama comes out and says "blank from universe 6 is ssj4 tier" and blank lost to god goku.......sorry but I go with the GT character. To large of a time gap for 1.5 transformations to do a thing. The rate Goku got stronger is crazy.
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Re: Freeza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

Post by Geekdom101 » Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:29 pm

I'm cool with this.
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Re: Freeza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:29 pm

Logically speaking they are if you scale the powers.
You just shot yourself in the foot by saying this. Power levels failed to have any linearity after the Freeza arc. That's half the reason Toriyama scrapped the concept. Characters may be holding back in strength, a person's power may be overstated, or even worse, they may never fight at all leaving their true strength completely vague. It's really kinda of a lost cause to trying to scale to a number the exact strength of any character in Dragon Ball beyond the Freeza arc because by that point, power levels just got way out of hand.
Why don't we see goku destroy the universes with punches in GT? Simple. He has CONTROL of his power. I mean seriously, Goku doing that in super was silly. He does that vs beerus, but vs golden Freeza whos above Beerus suppressed in the BOG in a STRONGER form.....nothing happens. Beerus vs champa in episode 28-no universe busting.
Goku was in control of his power way beyond GT. Remember Super Saiyan Blue?
Dragonball fighters for a while have been universe busters, it's just that goku was new to the god thing and had no control.
Absolutely false. There was no evidence until when SSJ God Goku and Beerus clashed in Super that any Dragon Ball character had the strength to destroy the universe. And again, the whole "Goku having control power of his power" schtick was a thing way before GT or SSJ4 happened.
Beerus-needs 10% on a mid buu saga tired and damaged ssj2 vegeta.
Yet Beerus didn't have a scratch on him and no sold most of Vegeta's assault.
Omega shenron-owns 2 ssj4's easily. SSj4 is over 20x ssj3 gt goku in the bebi arc....and ssj3 goku is 400x gt base goku....who was above base rildo who's above buuhan/kid buu...and that was when he wasn't even powered up yet. I mean if goku's base power is 5k in the buu saga before powering up his base form....what is rildo's base 100% after going from "stronger then majin buu"....Gt characters are stronger. Unless Toriyama comes out and says "blank from universe 6 is ssj4 tier" and blank lost to god goku.......sorry but I go with the GT character. To large of a time gap for 1.5 transformations to do a thing. The rate Goku got stronger is crazy.
Where are you getting any of these multipliers from? This goes back to my first point of how trying to use numbers and calculate the exact strength of characters in Dragon Ball from any stage beyond the Freeza arc is practically a lost cause. Because the calculations and figures used are always going to be arbitrary.

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Re: Freeza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

Post by LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta » Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:46 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Logically speaking they are if you scale the powers.
You just shot yourself in the foot by saying this. Power levels failed to have any linearity after the Freeza arc. That's half the reason Toriyama scrapped the concept. Characters may be holding back in strength, a person's power may be overstated, or even worse, they may never fight at all leaving their true strength completely vague. It's really kinda of a lost cause to trying to scale to a number the exact strength of any character in Dragon Ball beyond the Freeza arc because by that point, power levels just got way out of hand.
Why don't we see goku destroy the universes with punches in GT? Simple. He has CONTROL of his power. I mean seriously, Goku doing that in super was silly. He does that vs beerus, but vs golden Freeza whos above Beerus suppressed in the BOG in a STRONGER form.....nothing happens. Beerus vs champa in episode 28-no universe busting.
Goku was in control of his power way beyond GT. Remember Super Saiyan Blue?
Dragonball fighters for a while have been universe busters, it's just that goku was new to the god thing and had no control.
Absolutely false. There was no evidence until when SSJ God Goku and Beerus clashed in Super that any Dragon Ball character had the strength to destroy the universe. And again, the whole "Goku having control power of his power" schtick was a thing way before GT or SSJ4 happened.
Beerus-needs 10% on a mid buu saga tired and damaged ssj2 vegeta.
Yet Beerus didn't have a scratch on him and no sold most of Vegeta's assault.
Omega shenron-owns 2 ssj4's easily. SSj4 is over 20x ssj3 gt goku in the bebi arc....and ssj3 goku is 400x gt base goku....who was above base rildo who's above buuhan/kid buu...and that was when he wasn't even powered up yet. I mean if goku's base power is 5k in the buu saga before powering up his base form....what is rildo's base 100% after going from "stronger then majin buu"....Gt characters are stronger. Unless Toriyama comes out and says "blank from universe 6 is ssj4 tier" and blank lost to god goku.......sorry but I go with the GT character. To large of a time gap for 1.5 transformations to do a thing. The rate Goku got stronger is crazy.
Where are you getting any of these multipliers from? This goes back to my first point of how trying to use numbers and calculate the exact strength of characters in Dragon Ball from any stage beyond the Freeza arc is practically a lost cause. Because the calculations and figures used are always going to be arbitrary.


I don't meant power levels, IDK how you get power levels. I mean by the fact Beerus can't beat the z fighters like how GT villains can.

I don't get why you posted that. It made no sense.

actually there was. watch movie 8. also yes he had power control before GT...what's your point? He was new to the god power. it was painfully obvious he had trouble get used to it and had to practice a bit in super. He didn't just use it perfectly from the get go.

because he was 1/10th his power that's why. In dragonball if you're slightly above someone you might as well be 100x stronger 1v1. Dodoria is 22k and vegeta is 24k....vegeta won in one hit. no deep breathing from essentially killing someone almost his equal in 1 blast easily one handed. 1/10>>1/12th which proves my point more of the small power advantage=easy win

ssj3 goku<baby vegeta. I hope you agree with that as he beat him easily.
goku was beaten down until he was almost KO'd. so he was less then half his power.
if baby get 10x stronger when oozaruu and still is below goku at ssj4....then to be beyond baby after he gets 10x stronger it means goku has to be over 20x stronger. Do the math. there's no power levels but it's common sense when you think of it, let me explain with math.

Baby-20
gt ssj3 goku-10

oozaruu baby-200
damaged goku-1. Maybe 4 at best. He was borderline KO'd lying down barely able to even keep his eyes open about to pass out.

people say ssj4 is a 10x multiplier.....but if goku was weaker then baby and then damaged he couldn't be above oozaruu baby at a 10x. Even if he wasn't damaged at all. So it has to be above 10x. Goku was beaten down to almost passed out level....so he's obviously not even half his power so you can easily DOUBLE the 10x. So Goku is factually stronger then ssj3 gt goku x10 when he is ssj4.

How do I know oozaruu is 10x? Vegeta stated it on earth.

It's not made up or power level stuff, it's common sense. Like how fat buu is 2x ssj2 tournament saga gohan based on gohan's power being half the power buu needed to revive. It's basic addition.

Hope you agree with this because I honestly can't make it any more easy to agree with or explained better. I see you like Beerus but I hope that doesn't make you biased.

You have a point of it being a big feet to destroy the universe...but it's only a destructive feet. Not a feet on other fighters.

Also it's a chain reaction effect

Also it's after several attacks.
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Re: Freeza is currently the strongest villain in Dragon Ball

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:32 pm

LSSJGODSSJ4Gogeta wrote:
Most of what you said doesn't really make any sense from an in-universe perspective. How does being a Oozaru correlate to how strong you are as a SSJ4? Was that ever stated in the show or the GT Perfect Files? Where is it implied that Goku used 1/10th of his power? Why is Fat Boo only twice as strong as SSJ2 Teen Gohan from the Majin Boo arc? Who stated that destroying the universe was a chain reaction? When was it factually stated that SS4 Goku was x10 stronger than SSJ3 GT Goku? Who? What? Where? When? Why? :crazy:

Okay, I really, really, really don't mean to sound rude, but a lot of what you claim to be not made up or power level stuff, sounds exactly like that.

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