Clyde Mandelin's Subtitles Inferior?

[Pokewhiz7]

I've read on this forum that some consider Mandelin's subtitles for the original Dragon Ball series to be, while good, not as good as Steve Simmon's for DB 14-28, DBZ, DBGT, and Kai. What are the particular issues with them?

[jjgp1112]

From what i understand from what other users have said on here, there are some dialect related things and other subtleties in the Japanese language that Mandelin tends to gloss over in his translations compared to Simmons, i.e. Goku's country bumpkin-speak. Also, he's looser with the swearing. Not Anime Labs level, but the Piccolo saga has several instances of characters saying "shit," which you never saw otherwise in most Funimation subs.

[Puto]

From the perspective of somebody who doesn't speak Japanese, I can tell you I find Mandelin's subtitles significantly more enjoyable than Simmons's awkward over-literal fest.

[Gozar]

From the perspective of somebody who doesn't speak Japanese, I can tell you I find Mandelin's subtitles significantly more enjoyable than Simmons's awkward over-literal fest.

Following Clyde on twitter and being familiar with his work within the Mother/EarthBound community, I've come to see that that's just his style. He tends to not like to be overly literal and have a bit more of a natural flow to his dialogue. It's not really right or wrong as translation is more of an art than anything else. Although I do wish that he gave a little more attention to Goku's hick-speak, I can say that I find his subtitles for Lupin III to be flawless.

[Ajay]

From the perspective of somebody who doesn't speak Japanese, I can tell you I find Mandelin's subtitles significantly more enjoyable than Simmons's awkward over-literal fest.

Agreed. He also uses "God" over "Kami", so that's a bonus in my book. Would be interested to hear the perspective of someone who does speak Japanese, though.

[Gyt Kaliba]

If nothing else, I kind of wish FUNimation had chosen one or the other to do the entirety of the franchise rather than it being kind of split up as it is. I remember there definitely being a handful of stumbling points, when moving from watching Dragon Ball subbed over into DBZ the same way. Nothing so major that a longtime fan, or probably even a newer one, couldn't figure out and roll with of course, but still noticeable little things.

[VegettoEX]

If nothing else, I kind of wish FUNimation had chosen one or the other to do the entirety of the franchise rather than it being kind of split up as it is. I remember there definitely being a handful of stumbling points, when moving from watching Dragon Ball subbed over into DBZ the same way. Nothing so major that a longtime fan, or probably even a newer one, couldn't figure out and roll with of course, but still noticeable little things.

Pretty sure we asked Steve about that back during our podcast interview, and it was a turning point when too much was on FUNimation's plate and they needed to start hiring more translators. Steve already had commitments, and there we go!

[Gyt Kaliba]

Pretty sure we asked Steve about that back during our podcast interview, and it was a turning point when too much was on FUNimation's plate and they needed to start hiring more translators. Steve already had commitments, and there we go!

Ahh, well that's understandable enough then. If he'd already been working on other projects for them at the time, then there was nothing else to be done about it.

Reminds me too there's still a certain backlog of older (and some of the newer, ack!) podcasts I need to get around to listening to eventually.

[Mewzard]

Following Clyde on twitter and being familiar with his work within the Mother/EarthBound community, I've come to see that that's just his style. He tends to not like to be overly literal and have a bit more of a natural flow to his dialogue. It's not really right or wrong as translation is more of an art than anything else. Although I do wish that he gave a little more attention to Goku's hick-speak, I can say that I find his subtitles for Lupin III to be flawless.

One of the many fandoms I'm in is that for Super Sentai and Kamen Rider. I've experienced both ends of the sub spectrum there, and I have to say, natural flow in subs makes the experience so much better for me. As long as the sacrifice in accuracy is relatively minor, I enjoy that so much more. A word can literally mean one thing in direct translation (Let's say a dictionary specifies these terms), but maybe the character voice means a related term fits better, or maybe nobody would actually use a certain word in common spoken English, but something relatively common is close (unless it's in character that someone does speak in that way). If there are Japanese colloquialisms being used, try and find an English equivalent that works (too literal accuracy there might not make sense on top of losing the intended experience behind using a colloquialism in the fist place). If you can, awesome. If not, at least pick a translation that sounds somewhat sensible in English, not like the character's making some odd observation that nobody contextually should get yet somehow they do. If someone's trying to do a poem or rhyme, you have to choose what's more important: the accuracy or the experience. It's rare you can get both perfectly. Do you want a poem that's more accurate to the words, or slightly varies, but caries the intended word flow? Should a rap match the lyrics literally or should it sound like a rap that properly follows the flow of the song and keeps the particular rhyme scheme of the original song?

As they say, translation's an art, and one where people's preferences can affect what kind of translation they enjoy. I think I made clear what kind I enjoy above, with the addendum of preferring a majority of things to be translated where possible (character names being one of the exceptions, though minor characters who exist only to be puns getting pun name translations is fine by me, like monsters of the week who have punny names), not liking to see Japanese honorifics in English subs (either use English honorifics, nicknames, or drop them as appropriate to the relationships), and preferring to keep translator's notes to the absolute minimum, all for proper flow and so we get something close to the intended experience the native viewers get (because that's an important aspect of the show, the audience experience, something that would change if you left in a lot of words the audience wouldn't know if the original Japanese audience did know, or took out puns, added nonnative honorifics, changed well known expressions into odd exclamations, etc).

It comes down to a few important questions: How important is accuracy for this show? How important is the intended experience for this show? How much are you willing to sacrifice of each to find the balance you think is most important between the two?

To each their own I suppose.

Ahh, well that's understandable enough then. If he'd already been working on other projects for them at the time, then there was nothing else to be done about it.

Reminds me too there's still a certain backlog of older (and some of the newer, ack!) podcasts I need to get around to listening to eventually.

I had the same issue before recently. Only four episodes behind now (would be caught up already, but I also started catching up on other things again).