How will FUNimation screw up "Frost"?

[Saturnine]

We know that FUNi likes to be PUNny - "Freeza" wasn't good enough for them and they had to make it spelled "Fr i eza", because apparently American kids like puns a lot.

...I don't follow. How did changing the spelling from Freeza to Frieza make his name more "PUNny" than it already was?

Because Freeza looks too similar to Freezer, which is an unaltered word basically. They probably deemed it necessary to spell it with an "i" to move it further away from "Freezer" on the pun slider. This coming from the land of KoolAid and Kleenex, so why are you so surprised?

Good to know FUNi has changed its modus operandi, it's really good to hear.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Funimation have been pretty on point in recent years, but things like going with "Beers the Destroyer" to parallel Shiva and using Sisami rather than Shisami... Well, they aren't big things, but they do install a tiny bit of worry.

For the record though, Frost is not one of the names I would expect them to screw up. Honestly, that award probably goes to hoping they don't use Shampa to try and avoid fans thinking his name is pronounced champ-ah. Cabba, Vados and Magetta would be after that, I guess, with Monaka, Frost and Botamo feeling pretty much in the clear.

If they HAD to fuck it up, for the sake of argument, I'd just go with Fraust.

[Adamant]

In all fairness, they're kind of damned if they do and damned if they don't.

Of course. But
a) That's their own fault for doing such a bad job in the first place
and
b) They can't say they "want it to be as perfect as possible" when they have a shopping list of known imperfections they insist on keeping around because people that grew up on their old shit are too used to them.

[Fionordequester]

b) They can't say they "want it to be as perfect as possible" when they have a shopping list of known imperfections they insist on keeping around because people that grew up on their old shit are too used to them.

Ah but see, you're defining "perfect" from only your own perspective. A lot of people LIKE the holdovers from those days, while other people don't. So how do you know "perfect" doesn't mean "we want to appeal to EVERYONE, not just one specific sub-set of fans"? If that's the only case, the only way their decision is "imperfect" is if you decide that Purists are somehow more entitled to getting what they want than the Americans who grew up watching the show. When, in actuality, both are equally entitled .

Not trying to insult you or say anything bad about you. I'm just point out what I perceive to be an error in logic.

[Adamant]

b) They can't say they "want it to be as perfect as possible" when they have a shopping list of known imperfections they insist on keeping around because people that grew up on their old shit are too used to them.

Ah but see, you're defining "perfect" from only your own perspective. A lot of people LIKE the holdovers from those days, while other people don't. So how do you know "perfect" doesn't mean "we want to appeal to EVERYONE, not just one specific sub-set of fans"? If that's the only case, the only way their decision is "imperfect" is if you decide that Purists are somehow more entitled to getting what they want than the Americans who grew up watching the show. When, in actuality, both are equally entitled .

Not trying to insult you or say anything bad about you. I'm just point out what I perceive to be an error in logic.

That's... not how anything works. By that logic you can say absolutely everything is "as perfect as possible" as long as your definition of perfect is what that thing already happens to be.

And that's without getting into the fact that the only reason there are any holdovers that someone may or may not like in the first place is because they did a bad job the first time around, creating those potentially nostalgic flaws.

[Gyt Kaliba]

That's just it though, what I mean by 'damned either way'. Yes, it's their fault for having done so in the first place, but they can't go back and time. It's already happened. To correct those 'imperfections' would be to completely go to the side of the subtitled fans, and completely turn away from their dub and casual fans, and while that might be good for the super fans, that's only going to harm sales in the long run probably, and as a company I just don't see them doing that.

It's frankly kind of a miracle and a testament to how right they want to do by the franchise now that they've even fixed as much as they already have.

[VegettoEX]

The lost sale from the one sad dude who'd actually follow-through on the "boycott" over fixing pronunciations in the dub would not be that big a deal. I think they'd survive.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Okay, fair point...maybe it wouldn't be quite the sales upending I'm thinking - but it still would most likely not be worth the gain. As I've said, they've already struck a pretty great middle ground now, and for a fanbase that's already as fractured as it is (and yes, I acknowledge that much, if not most, of the fracturing is entirely their fault in the first place), what purpose would it really serve to fracture it even further? Just because it would benefit the majority of the users here still wouldn't make it the best choice in the end. As nice as it would be if FUNi could undo the past, or if DBZ had been left alone long enough (like it did in Japan) to come back in a completely new way, and get us to a 100% accurate version, it's just not something that's going to happen, and I for one don't really see the shame in a nice compromise. That's where I stand on it, at any rate.

[Fionordequester]

That's... not how anything works. By that logic you can say absolutely everything is "as perfect as possible" as long as your definition of perfect is what that thing already happens to be.

Yep, that's right. Perfect IS subjective, at least if we're talking about art. When it comes to art, it's a heck of a lot easier to define what's "bad" than to define what's "good". You might define a "perfect" localization as one that's totally accurate, while someone else might define "perfect" as one that gets the highest amount of viewership (after all, Toei's ultimately in it for money, even if it's writers aren't). Still others might define "perfect" as "whatever has the best dialogue and characterization" (regardless of how radically it differs from the original script). Or, perhaps someone else might define "perfect" as "the best we can do considering that we can't go back in time" (as Gyt Kaliba has said).

Either way, you can't really slam them for supposedly going back on their promise to make things as "perfect" as possible when you don't even know what their standards of "perfect" are.

[ShadowBardock89]

Sure, that example (along with "Bagu" in Zelda II which was supposed to be "Bug" to accompany "Error") are 100% examples of missing the intent of the word with regard to transliterations.

But no-one was missing the joke with Freeza. If they were missing the joke and confusing spellings via their transliterations, they would have gone with "Furiza". That's not the case. They put an "i" in the middle for absolutely no real reason. Nothing was lost, other than it looking patently ridiculous.

Maybe to make it sound German? I'm halfway serious.
In German, Frieza sounds exactly as "Freeza."

[precita]

What was the last name FUNI changed in the dub from the original? I can't remember.

[dario03]

I always thought Frieza was just one of the ways it could be spelled when translated. Battle Stadium D.O.N. spells it like that, and the game is Japanese only.

But in any case I imagine they will just go with Frost.

[Adamant]

That's... not how anything works. By that logic you can say absolutely everything is "as perfect as possible" as long as your definition of perfect is what that thing already happens to be.

Yep, that's right. Perfect IS subjective, at least if we're talking about art. When it comes to art, it's a heck of a lot easier to define what's "bad" than to define what's "good". You might define a "perfect" localization as one that's totally accurate, while someone else might define "perfect" as one that gets the highest amount of viewership (after all, Toei's ultimately in it for money, even if it's writers aren't). Still others might define "perfect" as "whatever has the best dialogue and characterization" (regardless of how radically it differs from the original script). Or, perhaps someone else might define "perfect" as "the best we can do considering that we can't go back in time" (as Gyt Kaliba has said).

Either way, you can't really slam them for supposedly going back on their promise to make things as "perfect" as possible when you don't even know what their standards of "perfect" are.

When a dub company says they're going to "make the dub as perfect as possible" they're not implying they're going to produce a replacement score and hire punch-up writers to make random one-liners they can replace dialogue with. Now you're just being difficult for the sake of it.

[Captain Strawberry]

Rearranging the letters like Fri-eza doesn't really bother me but outflat changing them like Hercule gets on my nerves a bit, though like the others have said this is modern day and Funi will keep Frost because there are no other ways to spell it without flat out making it look stupid or changing it completely.

There's nothing wrong with Hercule because Funi doesn't want people from the west who are religious to be offended I guess. Like imagine little kids shouting Satan. lol

[Gyt Kaliba]

I always thought Frieza was just one of the ways it could be spelled when translated. Battle Stadium D.O.N. spells it like that, and the game is Japanese only.

Every now and then you'll see something from a dub make it's way into an original Japanese product just by...I don't even know if I want to call it an accident, or what, really, but it's been known to happen here and there on rare occasions.

Just recently no less, in the first Digimon Adventure Tri movie, the term 'Digidestined' is used on screen (like, in the animation, not spoken audio), despite the fact that that term is only ever used in the dub. It's always been 'Chosen Children' in Japanese. ...Okay, technically it's 'Digidistined' on the screen, but it's still pretty clear what they were going for, and I'm not sure if it's some kind of accident, or an on purpose tip of the hat towards the English version.

[Gaffer Tape]

So here's my confession: I use Freeza, to the point that anything else looks weird. I'm just really used to it. But at the same time, Frieza doesn't really bother me all that much. I'm totally fine with that spelling. If that was the worst thing FUNi ever got wrong with the franchise, I'd never have anything to complain about. I mean, the pronunciation's the same, the pun is only obscured in the most minor of ways. Sure, it doesn't need to be there. It's not like Raazuberi where you just have to kind of reach to make something different in English to drive in the point that it's not spelled exactly like raspberry. I certainly wouldn't choose to have it there. But I don't think it's doing even the slightest bit of damage.

[Fionordequester]

So here's my confession: I use Freeza, to the point that anything else looks weird. I'm just really used to it. But at the same time, Frieza doesn't really bother me all that much. I'm totally fine with that spelling. If that was the worst thing FUNi ever got wrong with the franchise, I'd never have anything to complain about. I mean, the pronunciation's the same, the pun is only obscured in the most minor of ways. Sure, it doesn't need to be there. It's not like Raazuberi where you just have to kind of reach to make something different in English to drive in the point that it's not spelled exactly like raspberry. I certainly wouldn't choose to have it there. But I don't think it's doing even the slightest bit of damage.

Personally I think that's a reasonable opinion. But then, you all know me .

When a dub company says they're going to "make the dub as perfect as possible" they're not implying they're going to produce a replacement score and hire punch-up writers to make random one-liners they can replace dialogue with. Now you're just being difficult for the sake of it.

I actually sincerely am not trying to be difficult. The point I am trying to get across is that "perfect" is a subjective word. Because of that, their objectives might be different than yours. You obviously want things to be as accurate as they can possibly be (presumably with some touch ups here and there so that we don't get stilted dialogue like "it sickens me with how utterly lenient you are").

FUNI, however, is in a different boat. Their primary responsibility, to Toei, is that they make them money. No, I'm not saying that they should've handled the old Z dub the way they did, that's not what I'm saying. I'm simply saying that their responsibility is to make sure that Toei is paid back for all the hard work they put into providing them the materials needed to dub the show. If a company produces the most accurate dub possible, but somehow manages to alienate 90% of it's viewership (this is a hypothetical, I'm not saying this has happened)...then they've still utterly failed the company that gave them the materials.

So, back to FUNI. Right now, they're in a place where they actually DO want to be as accurate as possible...but that still doesn't change the ever-present reality that they need to make money. And they're not going to make money by alienating the people who grew up watching their dub (regardless of how flawed it was). Heck, they're already having ENOUGH of a problem with that as it is, considering how many people STILL think that the Nicktoons dub is the dub that they're going to be getting if they buy the uncut DVD's. They're still yelling stuff like "WHERE'S THE FAULCONER SCORE?!" or "where's all the blood and guts?", and various things like that.

So again, we at Kanzenshuu are not FUNi's only audience. Everyone else is a part of their audience as well. So they could very well be defining "perfect" (which is, again, a subjective word) as "as appealing to EVERYONE as we can make it". Therefore, I don't think you can say they didn't live up to what they promised.

[Adamant]

So, back to FUNI. Right now, they're in a place where they actually DO want to be as accurate as possible...but that still doesn't change the ever-present reality that they need to make money. And they're not going to make money by alienating the people who grew up watching their dub (regardless of how flawed it was). Heck, they're already having ENOUGH of a problem with that as it is, considering how many people STILL think that the Nicktoons dub is the dub that they're going to be getting if they buy the uncut DVD's. They're still yelling stuff like "WHERE'S THE FAULCONER SCORE?!" or "where's all the blood and guts?", and various things like that.

Yes. But when Funi says "We want to make this as perfect as it can be", they're not going to hire Falconer to make a new score and then go "Well we wanted to make it perfect, and to many people a perfect Dragonball dub has music by that guy, so we brought him in."

"A perfect dub" obviously means "a dub that's true to the original" here. That's what it means to everyone except people with nostalgic fondness for specific changes in specific dubs that they'd consider "perfect in every shape and form" no matter what they did, because their nostalgia for the specific products they watched is too strong.

[Super Sonic]

What was the last name FUNI changed in the dub from the original? I can't remember.

Panty and Stocking with Garterbelt with the Transformers parody episode. In Japanese, their names were "Masculimus Surprise" and "Femitron". The dub had their names as "Cocktimus Prime" and "Minge-atron". Like the latter names more as they're funnier.

And speaking of TF and perfect dubs, not sure if y'all cared about this, but no one wanted any of the TF animes to keep "Convoy" in the English versions.

[Dbzfan94]

Honestly why do people care so much? Is 'Say-in' really that bad to you guys? I mean most of you probably won't even watch the dub so it shouldn't be an issue. There would be millions of fans annoyed if FUNi changed to 'Sigh-yan' which just sounds wrong no matter how many times I hear it.

Let us dub fans enjoy a near perfect dub (with some minor things like Say-in that you guys would consider imperfections) while you continue to prefer the sub anyway. No disrespect intended, I'm just saying.