Do you get bothered seeing dub names?

[Adamant]

It can be elitism, yes. I'm not saying dub fan's can't be pretty awful sometimes too, and extremely excluding towards original Japanese version fans, but...too completely assume they're any less of a fan just because they're used to the names they're used to? Or to throw out statements like it's more 'adult' to use the original names, or to say they 'shouldn't' use those names just because they're not the original ones? That's definitely sounding a little elitist, even if it wasn't meant that way.

That's not what I was saying. Of course English dub fans are used to "Tien", just like Mexican dub fans are used to "Milk" and French dub fans are used to "Sangoku". The point is that the two latter are courteous enough to use the original names they know everybody knows rather than the dub names they're use to, while the former have a major tendency to refuse to do so, to the point of dodging word filters purely to push their dub names.

[Gyt Kaliba]

My mistake then, I wasn't aware that Pokemon's name changes had more thought put into it than that. So in retrospect I guess that wasn't the best example that I could have made - it was the first thing that came to mind after my Robotnik/Eggman example though.

That said though, I still stand by my statement of not being able to understand why it's that much of a problem, at least outside of one's own personal preference. If seeing 'King Kai' and hearing Schemmel's take is that bad to anyone on a personal level, then that's fine obviously, but I cannot get behind the idea of anyone looking down at fellow fans because of that being the version they're used to or even prefer. Judge a fan based on their conduct and/or basic general knowledge aside from their viewing preferences, not by their viewing preferences, that's all I'm saying.

That's not what I was saying. Of course English dub fans are used to "Tien", just like Mexican dub fans are used to "Milk" and French dub fans are used to "Sangoku". The point is that the two latter are courteous enough to use the original names they know everybody knows rather than the dub names they're use to, while the former have a major tendency to refuse to do so, to the point of dodging word filters purely to push their dub names.

That's still speaking in rather broad strokes, though - not all dub fans are like that. Maybe a grand majority of them, yes, but to try and say they all are is extremely folly. Outside of the Dragons in GT who I just cannot for the life of me re-memorize their Japanese names for some reason, and Turles rather than Tullece that I can't shake for some reason either, I generally do use the Japanese names while on this forum. But if I'm talking to someone more used to the English dub names, then I don't mind changing to those to continue the conversation if need be. Just because someone is more used to the dub names, any dub names, doesn't automatically mean they're lesser of a fan. They might not know every single bit of minutia that most of us here are privy to learning, but the broad strokes of stories and characters? They tend to remember more than they're often given credit for.

All I am trying to say is that this automatic, knee-jerk defense that a lot of original version fans have of going 'UGH, his name is not *insert dub name here*, it's *insert original name here*' is not the kind of outlook that's going to bring in new fans. It's not an inviting tone, and if anything, it's just going to make most dub fans all the more unwilling to ever check out the original. And for what it's worth, while I don't think I've ever seen anyone use 'Milk', I've definitely seen 'Sangoku' a few times over the years here. And unlike with the dub names, I don't recall anyone calling foul on it.

[B]

Especially when the word filter was active, seeing someone intentionally go around it just seemed to scream "I'm going to intentionally be ignorant. I know it's wrong but I don't care".

That always baffled me, because unless you really have a huge disdain for the original names, there was no point. For anyone who did this I'd like to know why.

And, you know, it wasn't like the common problem you would run into with the filter, like when you're in a thread just like this, and you're talking about name changes, and your post reads "They changed Mr. Satan to Mr. Satan, what gives?" That was obviously annoying, and probably one of the big reasons the filter's gone. But then you'd have instances just in a regular post discussing the series, like a general "Do you like Tenshinhan?" thread, where someone italicizes or bolds or underlines one of the letters so they can use "Tien."

Maybe I'm the one fabricating persecution in my head now, but that seemed like a lot of work to make a dumb point about what name you use. No one is stopping you from writing "Tien" a thousand times, but the world filter is going to change it. So going around it always, to me, showed where someone's head is at regarding all this nonsense. For whatever reason, they need other people to know what naming conventions they use.

[dario03]

If people want to keep saying the wrong names and pronunciations , at least don't try to make up reasons like "it sounds better" or "its more natural". Just go with the actual reason: you grew up with them and are more used to them.

You don't know if that's the actual reason or not for every single person that prefers the dub names.

It can be elitism, yes. I'm not saying dub fan's can't be pretty awful sometimes too, and extremely excluding towards original Japanese version fans, but...too completely assume they're any less of a fan just because they're used to the names they're used to? Or to throw out statements like it's more 'adult' to use the original names, or to say they 'shouldn't' use those names just because they're not the original ones? That's definitely sounding a little elitist, even if it wasn't meant that way.

That's not what I was saying. Of course English dub fans are used to "Tien", just like Mexican dub fans are used to "Milk" and French dub fans are used to "Sangoku". The point is that the two latter are courteous enough to use the original names they know everybody knows rather than the dub names they're use to, while the former have a major tendency to refuse to do so, to the point of dodging word filters purely to push their dub names.

This is a English board so that's to be expected. On a Mexican or French board you probably would see those more often.

[rereboy]

Maybe people don't like having their words altered/censored and thus they take the time to bypass the filter. If a fan wants to use a specific name, frankly, why shouldn't he/she?

[Kuririn Fan]

Maybe people don't like having their words altered/censored and thus they take the time to bypass the filter. If a fan wants to use a specific name, frankly, why shouldn't he/she?

What? The name they want to use is altered/censored in the first place! And they bypass the filter just so they can write it incorrectly.

[rereboy]

Maybe people don't like having their words altered/censored and thus they take the time to bypass the filter. If a fan wants to use a specific name, frankly, why shouldn't he/she?

What? The name they want to use is altered/censored in the first place! And they bypass the filter just so they can write it incorrectly.

So? Why can't a fan use a dub name, for example, if he wants to? It's his choice, his preference. Maybe he doesn't care nearly as much about using the original name as other fans or he just prefers it.

And nobody forced the companies to change the names. It was their choice. Their preference. The word filter doesn't give any choice. It tries to force people. In other words, the forum that a fan is supposed to enjoy is altering/censoring what he is saying, in order to force him to use the original name, despite not wanting to. So, trying to compare the word filter to the choice of the companies doesn't really work. One is basically coercion, the other is simply choice.

It's no wonder some take the time to bypass the filter, imo... They may not even care all that much about the name they use but having your words altered/censored is a big no-no for lots of folks.

[Herms]

Maybe people don't like having their words altered/censored and thus they take the time to bypass the filter. If a fan wants to use a specific name, frankly, why shouldn't he/she?

As the forum rules states, "emphasis will be placed on the original Japanese version, as it is the single “global” version that can be enjoyed by all, and is the primary focus of Kanzenshuu as a whole. Furthermore, certain regional-specific spellings and quirks may automatically be adjusted by the forum to reflect this global perspective." That's what people agree to when they sign up here. Mike and the others spend lots of time, effort, and money setting this place up and keeping it running, and in return users follow the rules they establish. That's the deal. Nobody is forced to come post here. If they're not interested in the Japanese version of the series, they're free to not come post on forums that explicitly place emphasis on the Japanese version of the series. But once they do choose to come here, it's rude and ridiculous of them to actively refuse to place such emphasis. It's Mike's house, you play by Mike's rules. The word filter is gone, but when it was around it was one of the rules, and people who actively went against it solely for personal preference showed that they weren't comfortable with the concept of rules, and weren't really a good fit for Kanzenshuu.

[mecha3000]

I've never understood the rationale that Tenshinhan is somehow a mouthful. I mean, it's three syllables. Piccolo has three syllables. Vegeta has three syllables. But I never hear anyone say those are mouthfuls. I never see anyone propose they alter them to Piec or Vieg for ease of conversation.

Agreed. If you're going to say "Kamehameha", don't tell me "Tenshinhan" is difficult to say.

Especially if Naruto can have names like SHIKAMARU or OROCHIMARU. But I get where he was coming from with Tenshinhan because unlike Vegeta or Piccolo, it's not based on an English wording (like vegetable or piccolo) so Funimation probably felt a need to make it a little less of a mouthful. I know they kept Murasaki later on, but I guess in the beginning - They felt the need to change things (which could also expain why they changed Paikuhan, because it felt too much of a Japanese mouthful word like Tenshinhan). And now it's at the point where they probably can't change names like Tien, Frieza, or Pikkon because Western fans recognize the names that way and would get confused if they were suddenly changed. And Funimation probably doesn't want to risk losing people.

Still, Freeza is better than Frieza. That change is admittedly completely unnecessary. Also, I prefer Tenshinhan over Tien. As for Pikkon, it bothers me less - but I'd still like it to be Paikuhan for accuracy's sake. Still, we can all still enjoy the series despite the name differences.

[saiyanvegetable]

I think it's such a stupid thing to care about unless the dub is really out in left field. Turles, Krillin, Tien, etc. are all fine by me. I remember the bleach dub used "Zankpaktou" and the original names for their bankai and it was just so bad. Soul reaper or something would have sufficed tbh. The voice actors have no connection to the word and it's awkward every time it comes out - not to mention it's for a Western audience. Why not psuedo translate it into something that western audiences can understand and relate to? Makes perfect sense to me over the spanglish version of Japanese and English.

[B]

I think it's such a stupid thing to care about unless the dub is really out in left field. Turles, Krillin, Tien, etc. are all fine by me.

"Turles" and "Krillin" destroy their pun meanings. "Tien" is just nonsense. And, I guess we need to define "caring." No one is hunting down dub fans, burning their houses down and screaming "KRILLIN'S NOT IN DA HOOOOUSE ANYMORE", but it was silly and dumb to actively circumvent the filter just so you could wave your FUNi flag high; that's what creates an "us VS them" dynamic. (That is a general "you" by the way)

I remember the bleach dub used "Zankpaktou" and the original names for their bankai and it was just so bad. Soul reaper or something would have sufficed tbh.

Not the place to go too deep into this, but in broad strokes:

• BLEACH actually has Japanese individuals in its narrative. The closest DB gets is the Penguin Village crossover.
• The English dub for that show always establishes what a Japanese term is once it's introduced(konpaku = modified soul, dangai = precipice world, etc.). That of course brings up the question "why don't they just go with that then?" but it's more effort than FUNimation normally put into anything like that.
• The various Bankai releases are proper nouns, and are separate individuals from the users. There's an argument to be had for not translating "Tensa Zangetsu" or "Konjiki Ashisogi Jizou" the same as there's an argument to be had for not translating "Makankosappo" or "Kaioushin" and leaving them as-is.

[Herms]

That said though, I still stand by my statement of not being able to understand why it's that much of a problem, at least outside of one's own personal preference. If seeing 'King Kai' and hearing Schemmel's take is that bad to anyone on a personal level, then that's fine obviously, but I cannot get behind the idea of anyone looking down at fellow fans because of that being the version they're used to or even prefer. Judge a fan based on their conduct and/or basic general knowledge aside from their viewing preferences, not by their viewing preferences, that's all I'm saying.

I agree that there's nothing wrong with people liking a particular version or using Funi names in general. The problems arise when people come to Kanzenshuu and actively insist on using Funi names and push back against efforts to enforce the original names as standard, even though Kanzenshuu is explicit about prioritizing the original Japanese version. Nobody is obligated to come post on these forums, but if they choose to come, it's only common courtesy that they follow the rules and respect the culture. I understand that not everyone cares about the Japanese version or accurate translations and all that jazz, but the entire point behind Kanzenshuu is that here, we do. That's the culture we strive for. So I don't get why people who don't care about those things, or even actively dislike them, would bother to come here. If someone on YouTube or Twitter or wherever says "Hercule", "Tien", "King Kai", etc, that's fine, it just shows that person likes the Funi dub. But if a person comes here and uses Hercule/Tien/King Kai/etc, I do wonder why. I mean, if someone's not big on the Japanese version, why hang out at Japanese Version Central? If they say "hey, one set of names is as good as another!", that just ties back into my earlier point about how inaccurate those certain Funi names are. And again, I understand not everyone gives a monkey about accuracy, but then why hang out at Accuracy Central?

[ekrolo2]

And again, I understand not everyone gives a monkey about accuracy, but then why hang out at Accuracy Central?

Maybe for good discussions? I mean, have you seen DB related placed outside Kanzenshuu and DBZF? Regardless, speaking as a guy who knows about the inaccuracies, the accurate names and doesn't particularly give a rats ass about debates pertaining to them (like people throwing fits over Frieza vs Freeza or Boo vs Buu when they're pronounced the same damn way!) I'd say that's why I come here from the particular crowd you mention here. I don't imagine I'm alone in this.

Well, that and I think there's plenty of more interesting stuff to butt heads over from the actual story & characters. But then again, I am that weirdo who doesn't cringe to death over the fact someone has the audacity to use *le gasp* computer effects over practical ones in movies.

Ultimately, if someone wants to call Freeza Space NapolHitler and write it in hieroglyphics, as long as I and the other people know that's Freeza, use whatever the hell name you want from any dub for all I care.

[Herms]

Maybe for good discussions? I mean, have you seen DB related placed outside Kanzenshuu and DBZF?

And, to be super mega arrogant, how do you think it is we manage to maintain a level of discussion above just about any other DB place on the web? I'd say it's very closely related to our core principles of accuracy and sticking to the original sources, which ties directly back into emphasizing the original version and the original names. Not to say that using"Tenshinhan" instead of "Tien" magically creates good discussion, but I think they're both side-effects of the same source, a culture of striving to be as accurate, well-researched, and authoritative as possible. It's not necessary for everyone on Kanzenshuu to get super hung up on names, but if we ever reached a point where all or most forum users went "eh, I don't care whether these names are accurate or not", I think that would signal a definite drop in the overall level of discussion.

[ekrolo2]

Maybe for good discussions? I mean, have you seen DB related placed outside Kanzenshuu and DBZF?

And, to be super mega arrogant, how do you think it is we manage to maintain a level of discussion above just about any other DB place on the web? I'd say it's very closely related to our core principles of accuracy and sticking to the original sources, which ties directly back into emphasizing the original version and the original names. Not to say that using"Tenshinhan" instead of "Tien" magically creates good discussion, but I think they're both side-effects of the same source, a culture of striving to be as accurate, well-researched, and authoritative as possible. It's not necessary for everyone on Kanzenshuu to get super hung up on names, but if we ever reached a point where all or most forum users went "eh, I don't care whether these names are accurate or not", I think that would signal a definite drop in the overall level of discussion.

I've actually never thought of this way, seems so obvious now that you've pointed it out.

[rereboy]

Maybe people don't like having their words altered/censored and thus they take the time to bypass the filter. If a fan wants to use a specific name, frankly, why shouldn't he/she?

As the forum rules states, "emphasis will be placed on the original Japanese version, as it is the single “global” version that can be enjoyed by all, and is the primary focus of Kanzenshuu as a whole. Furthermore, certain regional-specific spellings and quirks may automatically be adjusted by the forum to reflect this global perspective." That's what people agree to when they sign up here. Mike and the others spend lots of time, effort, and money setting this place up and keeping it running, and in return users follow the rules they establish. That's the deal. Nobody is forced to come post here. If they're not interested in the Japanese version of the series, they're free to not come post on forums that explicitly place emphasis on the Japanese version of the series. But once they do choose to come here, it's rude and ridiculous of them to actively refuse to place such emphasis. It's Mike's house, you play by Mike's rules. The word filter is gone, but when it was around it was one of the rules, and people who actively went against it solely for personal preference showed that they weren't comfortable with the concept of rules, and weren't really a good fit for Kanzenshuu.

There's two points in my post:

1 - wondering if the word filter was a worthwhile idea, due to the issues I mentioned;

2 - state that it's not surprising that some went out of their way to get around it.

In none of those two points I stated that people should try to go around it.

The people that own the forum set the rules that they want, and the users should obey them or face possible consequences, of course. However, reflecting whether a certain policy is a worthwhile idea is not the same as saying that the users should try to break it, nor is not finding very surprising that users try to break a certain policy if we have doubts about the policy.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Believe me, I get and fully understand that the main focus of this forum, and the site as a whole, has always been the Japanese version of the show. And even though I'm still perfectly capable of enjoying the dub for what it is, I love that about this place...now. Back, way back, before though, like actually around the time my join date says? The forum was definitely pretty inhospitable to fans who dared to even mention the dub in a breath that wasn't cursing it's very existence. We've come a long way since then - me, the site staff and forum members (at least in so far as I can see, anyway), FUNi, the fandom at large - that's why it just disappoints me when even a bit of that separation that really doesn't need to be there rears it's ugly head again.

To re-state it again, it's just the way that the disdain for the dub is often phrased that just seems a little overboard to me. Being met with 'No, you're wrong, and your dub is horrible, idiot!' mentality is definitely what kept me out of the Japanese version for the longest time, and I can't imagine it doesn't do the same to other fans now too. There's always going to be some that you won't win over no matter what of course, but an altered mentality more along the lines of 'Actually, that part's different in the original version' would go a long way IMO.

Also, I hope this isn't stirring the pot further cuz I really don't want it to, but I'm curious - I can definitely see how it would have looked to the staff to see people circumvent the word filter to use dub names, but was it really a 'rule' so to speak? If so, I don't really remember ever seeing it enforced. Or was it more in the case of someone needlessly flouting it, instead of flouting it to make a point (IE using 'Hercule' to talk about his dub voice in comparison to 'Mr. Satan' for his Japanese voice, for example)?

[Hellspawn28]

At times yes. I still hate the video games and Kai still call Oozaru as "Great Apes" when they have tails. Apes do not have tails . Even Dragon Ball Evolution call them "Oozaru".

[Xeztin]

I love both the Dub and original but I seem to use names from both. For example, I hate using the name Hercule so I use Mr. Satan from the original. I use Tien from the Dub just because I heard that name for about all of my childhood. It has nothing to do with me disrespecting what version this forum is about, just the version of the name that I've grown to and in habit of using. However, I do try to stay true to the original side for the sake of the forum and even though I use Tien a lot, I try and sometimes catch myself and use Tenshinhan.

[precita]

If the forums/site didn't want anything to do with the dub, maybe dub discussion should have been banned entirely from the getgo. But obviously that wasn't the case, so the dub is discussed here regularly.