Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR?

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Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR?

Post by Iberian_Saiyan » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:40 pm

To date Funimation only did it once with the Dragon Box Z release whilst the others were either censored or cancelled so fans that would want to watch the Freeza arc in its original aspect ratio are stuck watching it via Kai's recut of the arc (definitely way better and especially with Yamamoto/Original BGM) or cropped + crappily remastered through the Orange Bricks / Season BDs which isn't ideal. Going by popularity, it seems DBZ Widescreen is more important than DBZ Fullscreen.

Maybe Funimation has burned a bridge they can no longer rebuild as fans who've bought the 16x9 now think they're superior because "it fits the entire screen" and "looks much better" so that crowd wouldn't be buying said release.

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Re: Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR

Post by DB1984 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:44 pm

No, they do not. They should be called out for NOT listening to their fans, who voted for OAR in a poll.

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Re: Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR

Post by Ajay » Fri Mar 18, 2016 9:50 pm

No, they don't care. We know that 4:3 won the surveys, but Funimation opted to release the show in widescreen due to the high sales of the Orange Bricks. To them, repeating the success of the past is the most important thing, and that's a sensible business decision.

From a fan's perspective, it is absolutely mindblowing to see a company disregard a poll that's clearly telling them it was never about the remastering process, but all about price point and timing.

Oh well. That's Funimation for you.
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Re: Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:33 pm

I mean, lets break this down to the sum of its parts: we are chastising an American video producer for regarding a work's (Not just a work, but their bread and butter property) proper aspect ratio as a matter of purist fanaticism in 2016. That's bizarre.
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Re: Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR

Post by Wezenheim » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:21 pm

I'm gonna have to echo everyone else's sentiments here and say no. Both 16x9 releases sold pretty well and probably didn't cost too much to produce, it makes sense from a business standpoint. Still, it's frustrating to say the least. Sure we have the old DVD releases for Z, but you have a ton of those to hunt down and they don't really look good on my TV. Plus I don't even think those are totally complete, from what I recall they didn't even include the Japanese audio until the "Ginyu" set. The Dragon Boxes are outstanding but very expensive.

A 4:3 release that looks okay, isn't out of print, and comes with Japanese audio isn't too much to ask for is it?

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Re: Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR

Post by Iberian_Saiyan » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:28 pm

Wezenheim wrote:I'm gonna have to echo everyone else's sentiments here and say no. Both 16x9 releases sold pretty well and probably didn't cost too much to produce, it makes sense from a business standpoint. Still, it's frustrating to say the least. Sure we have the old DVD releases for Z, but you have a ton of those to hunt down and they don't really look good on my TV. Plus I don't even think those are totally complete, from what I recall they didn't even include the Japanese audio until the "Ginyu" set.

A 4:3 release that looks okay, isn't out of print, and comes with Japanese audio isn't too much to ask for is it?
Couldn't they make a cheap 4x3 release with an automated "remaster" that just focused on the centre picture without any filters activated? Sort of like they did for the Blue Bricks except it wouldn't be too zoomed in. As bad as Viz may be with their remasters I'm sure they wouldn't try to turn the show to 16x9.

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Re: Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR

Post by Danfun64 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:38 pm

Not trying to defend Funi, but their masters of DB and DBGT are AFAIK SD Digibeta tapes. Cropping such footage to 16:9 probably would have been more noticeable than Funi cropping their 16mm masters of DBZ, which were then scanned to 1080p. It could be argued that such a crop might be too low res to be considered DVD quality. 640x360 :P
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Re: Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR

Post by B » Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:08 am

I feel the most important thing to remember in all of this is the simple fact that there was no clamoring for 16:9 DBZ, and that "widescreen fans", a term I actually saw being used the other day, did not exist. The licensing company made the arrogant decision to not leave well enough alone, got extremely lucky, and pat themselves on the back for it.

Dragon Ball's the baby; the moneymaker; gotta tinker with it, gotta treat it super-extra-special... Thanks for the concern.

I'm honestly convinced, at this point, that they themselves believe putting out a "perfect" version of the show isn't viable. If they make the show as-is readily available, how will they sell it again in a year?
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Re: Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR

Post by ShadowDude112 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:51 am

B wrote:I'm honestly convinced, at this point, that they themselves believe putting out a "perfect" version of the show isn't viable. If they make the show as-is readily available, how will they sell it again in a year?
They did that though. Finished the Dragon Boxes and then started releasing the Level Sets.
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Re: Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR

Post by B » Sat Mar 19, 2016 2:22 am

Except both of those things are gone now. Not readily available.
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Re: Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR

Post by Danfun64 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:12 am

Both are the level sets are available on Amazon used for about $20 in "Very Good" condition.

As for the Dragon Boxes...
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Re: Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:02 am

No, in fact they actually responded to criticisms against them reverting back to 16:9 releases in 2013 and tried to justify it with "going with widescreen over standard definition was a must" for the series to live up to modern HDTV standards, even though somehow they made the level sets which were full-screen and that didn't change the fact they were not standard definition :problem: :

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/12/31/fu ... questions/

They should honestly reprint the first two level sets and continue making them (as Blu-Rays are cheaper now than they were 5 years ago so the sets could potentially sell better) or reprint the Dragon Boxes at a reasonable price.
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Re: Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR

Post by Wezenheim » Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:34 am

Danfun64 wrote:Both are the level sets are available on Amazon used for about $20 in "Very Good" condition.

As for the Dragon Boxes...
I've considered buying the Level Sets for the Saiyan arc for the longest time, but oddly enough I almost think I'd be better off buying the first Dragon Box on Ebay. I've seen it priced pretty decently there quite a few times and you get more episodes, a cool box, and some extra stuff. It's still more expensive than the two level sets for sure, but it's really tempting.
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote:No, in fact they actually responded to criticisms against them reverting back to 16:9 releases in 2013 and tried to justify it with "going with widescreen over standard definition was a must" for the series to live up to modern HDTV standards, even though somehow they made the level sets which were full-screen and that didn't change the fact they were not standard definition :problem: :

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2013/12/31/fu ... questions/

They should honestly reprint the first two level sets and continue making them (as Blu-Rays are cheaper now than they were 5 years ago so the sets could potentially sell better) or reprint the Dragon Boxes at a reasonable price.
Ugh.

The Level sets were released way too soon, I really wish they could have held off on those. It's unrealistic to expect a company to wait and plan that far ahead, but I imagine there would have been a fair amount of hype generated if the Level Sets had released now as a celebration of the 30th anniversary of the Dragon Ball anime or something.

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Re: Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:56 am

B wrote:I feel the most important thing to remember in all of this is the simple fact that there was no clamoring for 16:9 DBZ, and that "widescreen fans", a term I actually saw being used the other day, did not exist. The licensing company made the arrogant decision to not leave well enough alone, got extremely lucky, and pat themselves on the back for it.
Oh, of course. The discussion only happens because non-videophiles (in no way a moral designation, just the state of things) took well to FUNi's decision in a way that, beyond their treating the Season Sets as prime cinema more broadly, they had no hand in. You would have no notion of considering Dragon Ball Z in aspect ratios until FUNi gave you reason to.
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Re: Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR

Post by KentalSSJ6 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 9:39 am

Well at least Kai was kept in 4:3. Shame Buu Kai is apparently going to be 16:9 everywhere though. Yay. :problem:
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Re: Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR

Post by Tanooki Kuribo » Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:36 am

I actually feel like they do care, but at the end of the day they really just have to put out what sells.

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Re: Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Sat Mar 19, 2016 10:59 am

Tanooki Kuribo wrote:I actually feel like they do care, but at the end of the day they really just have to put out what sells.

That the Level Sets happened at all should be a testament to that. It just confuses me as to how they became so beholden to a monster of their own making.
JacobYBM wrote:
Pannaliciour wrote:Reading all the comments and interviews, my conclusion is: nobody knows what the hell is going on.
Just like Dragon Ball since Chapter #4.
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BlazingFiddlesticks wrote:Kingdom Piccolo
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Re: Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR

Post by sangofe » Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:48 pm

B wrote:Except both of those things are gone now. Not readily available.
And not perfect. The Dragon Boxes are slightly out of sync and don't have the best audio. Neither the right colors.

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Re: Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR

Post by Danfun64 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:11 pm

sangofe wrote:The Dragon Boxes ... don't have the best audio.
On the Japanese end of things, the Funi Dragon Boxes probably have the best audio in America, the only commercially available source better being the Japanese Dragon Boxes. The Japanese audio that Funi uses comes from several generations old film, so even in its best state (Level Sets and Blu-Ray Season Sets) it is slightly inferior to the First Generation masters used for the Japanese Dragon Box. Of course, IMO the best way to watch DBZ in Japanese requires the Funi Dragon Boxes (in order to legally own the subs), the Toei Dragon Boxes (best quality), and thejeremymenace's subtitle conversion kit as listed here. Since the pastebin link there is dead, I have it preserved here. Shame nobody has yet adapted that script so that the DB (not counting Saga of Goku unless R4) and especially the DBGT singles subtitles can be used. The ladder because it has NEP's that the Green Bricks lack. I'm not 100% if the japanese NEPs included are subbed or not though.

On the English end of things, you're right. The source of the English audio is the based off the Orange Bricks partial redub, with a few more tweaks added in, and using the Kikuchi score instead of Faulconer's music. While I like the Kikuchi music, it doesn't sound right when used with the English dub, because of all the other changes it made. It further aggrivates the inconsistency that the OB partial redub already has.
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Re: Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR

Post by Iberian_Saiyan » Sat Mar 19, 2016 5:10 pm

Danfun64 wrote:
sangofe wrote:The Dragon Boxes ... don't have the best audio.
On the Japanese end of things, the Funi Dragon Boxes probably have the best audio in America, the only commercially available source better being the Japanese Dragon Boxes. The Japanese audio that Funi uses comes from several generations old film, so even in its best state (Level Sets and Blu-Ray Season Sets) it is slightly inferior to the First Generation masters used for the Japanese Dragon Box. Of course, IMO the best way to watch DBZ in Japanese requires the Funi Dragon Boxes (in order to legally own the subs), the Toei Dragon Boxes (best quality), and thejeremymenace's subtitle conversion kit as listed here. Since the pastebin link there is dead, I have it preserved here. Shame nobody has yet adapted that script so that the DB (not counting Saga of Goku unless R4) and especially the DBGT singles subtitles can be used. The ladder because it has NEP's that the Green Bricks lack. I'm not 100% if the japanese NEPs included are subbed or not though.

On the English end of things, you're right. The source of the English audio is the based off the Orange Bricks partial redub, with a few more tweaks added in, and using the Kikuchi score instead of Faulconer's music. While I like the Kikuchi music, it doesn't sound right when used with the English dub, because of all the other changes it made. It further aggrivates the inconsistency that the OB partial redub already has.
You're totally right. The American dub was produced in mind with their own custom soundtrack than the official Kikuchi score so it's inadequate to listen to the old US dub with the JPN BGM score. Just for example, take that scene where Trunks and Kuririn are about to blow Dr. Gero's secret lab and with the Kikuchi BGM you just don't get the same feeling as you would with the US score. It's too serious and liveless whilst with the Faulconer music it made it pumped up and comical.

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