Doesn't Funi care about releasing DBZ in its original AR?

[ABED]

"You'd think they'd not try to scalp their own fans but well, it's capitalism." It was also capitalism when they sold them at reasonable prices. Sorry if this is off topic, but this comes off as you using the term as a pejorative. No one forced those buyers to accept those higher prices.

No one did, you're correct on that but there are fans that rather than think with their head it's with their wallet so regardless of its price, they'll purchase it.

And it's those people who ruin it for everyone else. You do understand that FUNimation only charges those prices because that's what the demand is for those items. They aren't the standard release, they're collectors items for people with a lot of money to spend on Dragon Ball.

A handful of people willing to pay a much higher margin than the MSRP aren't ruining it for anyone. I doubt FUNimation made more from the upsells than when they were being sold in stores. The truly important issue is aspect ratio. That's the thing that irritates me. What if one of my discs gets scratched? I'm screwed.

No one did, you're correct on that but there are fans that rather than think with their head it's with their wallet so regardless of its price, they'll purchase it.
Or they just value it so much they are willing to pay a premium. However, I am a relatively cheap person, so if the worst was to happen, I'd most likely suck it up and buy the blu ray, cropping and all.

[LuckyCat]

I doubt FUNimation made more from the upsells than when they were being sold in stores.

You're comparing the standard release of the past to a limited item now. The cost of going back to an old format and reprinting isn't going to be worth it for the relatively small number of fans who would not buy unless the release was 4:3. Despite even what a majority of the fans want, the industry production standard is 16:9.

[ABED]

I doubt FUNimation made more from the upsells than when they were being sold in stores.

You're comparing the standard release of the past to a limited item now. The cost of going back to an old format and reprinting isn't going to be worth it for the relatively small number of fans who would not buy unless the release was 4:3. Despite even what a majority of the fans want, the industry production standard is 16:9.

How do you know what "the majority of fans want"? I'm also unsure what your point is regarding the rest of your post. I'm not trying to come off as argumentative, I honestly don't understand the point being made and how it relates to mine.

[ZodaEX]

I doubt FUNimation made more from the upsells than when they were being sold in stores.

You're comparing the standard release of the past to a limited item now. The cost of going back to an old format and reprinting isn't going to be worth it for the relatively small number of fans who would not buy unless the release was 4:3. Despite even what a majority of the fans want, the industry production standard is 16:9.

The industry production standard as of now in 2016 is 16:9. When DBZ was produced in what, 1989? It was not. We are talking about a show produced in 1989, not 2016.......... Big difference there.........

[LuckyCat]

The industry production standard as of now in 2016 is 16:9. When DBZ was produced in what, 1989? It was not. We are talking about a show produced in 1989, not 2016.......... Big difference there.........

FUNimation isn't adapting the footage for a 1989 audience though. It's adapting it for a 201X audience where HDTVs have been standardized since 2009.

[Bardo117]

The industry production standard as of now in 2016 is 16:9. When DBZ was produced in what, 1989? It was not. We are talking about a show produced in 1989, not 2016.......... Big difference there.........

FUNimation isn't adapting the footage for a 1989 audience though. It's adapting it for a 201X audience where HDTVs have been standardized since 2009.

What he means is that DBZ was made in a 4:3 era, and we are no longer in a 4:3 era.... So it's just more convinent for them to release the footage according to what EVERYBODY has in their home.... And that's a 16:9 widescreen TV.

[ABED]

But it's not like adapting a script, to change the frame is to change the composition of the shot. It doesn't matter that standards have changed, you can't change the past like that. Either you will lose image or gain image you shouldn't be seeing. If you are watching Cheers, either you are going to cut nearly a quarter of the image or you might end up seeing the guy holding the boom mic over Norm.

Yes, you have a widescreen TV, but cropping it isn't more convenient. It's an extra step plus, are the black bars that much of a nuisance?

[LuckyCat]

The industry production standard as of now in 2016 is 16:9. When DBZ was produced in what, 1989? It was not. We are talking about a show produced in 1989, not 2016.......... Big difference there.........

FUNimation isn't adapting the footage for a 1989 audience though. It's adapting it for a 201X audience where HDTVs have been standardized since 2009.

What he means is that DBZ was made in a 4:3 era, and we are no longer in a 4:3 era.... So it's just more convinent for them to release the footage according to what EVERYBODY has in their home.... And that's a 16:9 widescreen TV.

I think we all agree on this. It seems like they could go back to 4:3 easily, but for all we know some FUNi executive has said "All releases of FUNimation henceforth shall follow the HDTV standards" etc. I don't think it's as simple as FUNimation being greedy.

[Bardo117]

To be honest, I think there's a grand total of 200-300 people that want an original 4:3 release

[ABED]

To be honest, I think there's a grand total of 200-300 people that want an original 4:3 release

I get that, but that's a painful fact. Their reason boils down to "I want the image to fill my screen". It was the same way during the 4:3 era.

[ZodaEX]

To be honest, I think there's a grand total of 200-300 people that want an original 4:3 release

In that case you are wrong. Many many more than 300 people want DBZ in it's original aspect ratio. The fan base for DBZ is much larger than you realize and even if only 5% of fans wanted original aspect ratio, that would still be more than 300 people.........

[Iberian_Saiyan]

The industry production standard as of now in 2016 is 16:9. When DBZ was produced in what, 1989? It was not. We are talking about a show produced in 1989, not 2016.......... Big difference there.........

The show's original intended aspect ratio was/is 4:3 which is also the reason Funimation has never done a very good job with cropping the show properly, whereas Toei Animation has. At least Toei puts effort to cropping the show knowingly it's not the original AR. Plus, if only they had stretched the image it'd still have been better than cropping but well, either one you chose, you lose quality although if stretched then the viewer could set the TV to 4:3 and it'd be 'fixed'.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

The thing that makes me hesitate in saying that Dragon Ball Z in 4:3 cannot sell is that, again, no one actively wanted 16:9. I would wager that the value of the Season Sets has always been king.

Though it did take me back to this gem:

http://widescreen.org/index.shtml

Blast from the recent past that is. The podcast the still going, though.

[OutlawTorn]

The American dub was produced in mind with their own custom soundtrack than the official Kikuchi score so it's inadequate to listen to the old US dub with the JPN BGM score.

I have to disagree. I always found the Faulconer score to be incredibly difficult to listen to, with its eclectic clash of noise switching from hard rock to bells to what can only be digitized farting depending on who happens to be the focus of a shot at any given moment. I could never watch to the dub with the Faulconer score after having the option to watch it with the Kikuchi score.

Though it did take me back to this gem:

http://widescreen.org/index.shtml

Took you back in a positive or negative way? It's tough to tell when it was just a link to the home page. While the site is advocating widescreen, it is advocating widescreen for content originally produced in widescreen, as opposed to cropping it to 4:3 which was an extremely common practice in the days of 4:3 television. The site does, however, advocate against creating a false widescreen from 4:3 content as seen here:

http://widescreen.org/widescreen_academy.shtml

I think anybody with a lick of sense could deduce that the primary reason the 16:9 version of DBZ sold better than the 4:3 release is the price point was much more affordable and they were mass produced in exponentially higher numbers than the lone complete 4:3 release. A secondary reason, regardless of how many may feel about it, would be the lack of the dub with the dub score on the Dragon Boxes. It didn't help that the value release was widely available through-out the Dragon Box lifespan.

People really have to vote with their wallets on stuff like these and not buy the product if they are opposed to the butchering of the OAR. We can protest on forums or social media or vote in polls all we want, but if we buy the product we are endorsing that modification of the aspect ratio, it's the only vote which a business will actually care about. I made that mistake with the original season sets, as it appeared to be the only way we would ever get DBZ released but I didn't waste my money on the cropped blu-rays.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

The American dub was produced in mind with their own custom soundtrack than the official Kikuchi score so it's inadequate to listen to the old US dub with the JPN BGM score.

I have to disagree. I always found the Faulconer score to be incredibly difficult to listen to, with its eclectic clash of noise switching from hard rock to bells to what can only be digitized farting depending on who happens to be the focus of a shot at any given moment. I could never watch to the dub with the Faulconer score after having the option to watch it with the Kikuchi score.

I agree, I do like a fair few of Faulconer's tracks but it doesn't suit DBZ. For me it's the world the series is set in, I don't watch the original Funi Z dub much anymore (I much prefer Kai and have watched parts of Japanese Z but I intend to watch it from start to finish soon), but whenever I do the Kikuchi score helps me drown out all the cheesy dialogue and appreciate the setting and atmosphere that was originally intended.

I believe sales of the orange bricks and season blu-rays boils down to two things, convenience and the Faulconer score. Both releases came at a reasonable price with a high number of episodes per set and they gave the American fans the score they wanted for nostalgia. It was an alternative to collecting the old singles, which was time consuming and expensive in the long run for most people. The level sets were, in a sense going back to that, but to a lesser extent because fans who bought the orange bricks were happy to have the entire first "season" (home release season, not TV of course) with a single purchase, with levels 1.1, 1.2 and the cancelled 2.1 set people needed three purchases to have all 39 episodes. The Dragon Boxes had the convenience aspect, but they were significantly more expensive upon release than the orange bricks and they lacked the Faulconer score, so fans who prefer the dub saw little point in double dipping.

I honestly think the orange bricks would have sold just as well if they were 4:3. It was never going to benefit from the HD remaster since it was released on DVD, and the option is always there on HDTVs for manually changing the aspect ratio if the viewer is uncomfortable with what they are given.

[ABED]

The American dub was produced in mind with their own custom soundtrack than the official Kikuchi score so it's inadequate to listen to the old US dub with the JPN BGM score.

I have to disagree. I always found the Faulconer score to be incredibly difficult to listen to, with its eclectic clash of noise switching from hard rock to bells to what can only be digitized farting depending on who happens to be the focus of a shot at any given moment. I could never watch to the dub with the Faulconer score after having the option to watch it with the Kikuchi score.

I agree, I do like a fair few of Faulconer's tracks but it doesn't suit DBZ. For me it's the world the series is set in, I don't watch the original Funi Z dub much anymore (I much prefer Kai and have watched parts of Japanese Z but I intend to watch it from start to finish soon), but whenever I do the Kikuchi score helps me drown out all the cheesy dialogue and appreciate the setting and atmosphere that was originally intended.

I believe sales of the orange bricks and season blu-rays boils down to two things, convenience and the Faulconer score. Both releases came at a reasonable price with a high number of episodes per set and they gave the American fans the score they wanted for nostalgia. It was an alternative to collecting the old singles, which was time consuming and expensive in the long run for most people. The level sets were, in a sense going back to that, but to a lesser extent because fans who bought the orange bricks were happy to have the entire first "season" (home release season, not TV of course) with a single purchase, with levels 1.1, 1.2 and the cancelled 2.1 set people needed three purchases to have all 39 episodes. The Dragon Boxes had the convenience aspect, but they were significantly more expensive upon release than the orange bricks and they lacked the Faulconer score, so fans who prefer the dub saw little point in double dipping.

I honestly think the orange bricks would have sold just as well if they were 4:3. It was never going to benefit from the HD remaster since it was released on DVD, and the option is always there on HDTVs for manually changing the aspect ratio if the viewer is uncomfortable with what they are given.

Exactly, I don't know how there's an argument against this.

[Kakacarrottop]

I believe sales of the orange bricks and season blu-rays boils down to two things, convenience and the Faulconer score. Both releases came at a reasonable price with a high number of episodes per set and they gave the American fans the score they wanted for nostalgia.

In 2007, i don't think anyone (outside of hardcore Toonami fans) would have even cared about what music was or wasn't included on the OBs. FUNimation could have added a soundtrack consisting of fart noises, and the Orange Bricks still would have sold well. Obviously now it's different, since people have become so attached to BF's score due to all the rereleases and popular Youtube videos with it.

[ABED]

I feel like whatever score DBZ had would've been popular with dub fans just by virtue of it being associated with DBZ.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Though it did take me back to this gem:

http://widescreen.org/index.shtml

Took you back in a positive or negative way? It's tough to tell when it was just a link to the home page. While the site is advocating widescreen, it is advocating widescreen for content originally produced in widescreen, as opposed to cropping it to 4:3 which was an extremely common practice in the days of 4:3 television. The site does, however, advocate against creating a false widescreen from 4:3 content as seen here:

http://widescreen.org/widescreen_academy.shtml

Humorously positive; some of his old rants chastising people who do not understand aspect ratios are still funny. Even more so when my family has a good number of 4:3-cropped movies sitting around, which have now become entirely antiquated after hauling off our last CRT last month.

People really have to vote with their wallets on stuff like these and not buy the product if they are opposed to the butchering of the OAR. We can protest on forums or social media or vote in polls all we want, but if we buy the product we are endorsing that modification of the aspect ratio, it's the only vote which a business will actually care about. I made that mistake with the original season sets, as it appeared to be the only way we would ever get DBZ released but I didn't waste my money on the cropped blu-rays.

Of course. If you whine and buy, one of those actions has more weight. I just do not know what we should tell folks interested in FUNi's releases who missed the Dragon Boxes beyond buying the series used.

[Vegard Aune]

The industry production standard as of now in 2016 is 16:9. When DBZ was produced in what, 1989? It was not. We are talking about a show produced in 1989, not 2016.......... Big difference there.........

FUNimation isn't adapting the footage for a 1989 audience though. It's adapting it for a 201X audience where HDTVs have been standardized since 2009.

CBS was also releasing for a 201X audience when they went back and completely re-edited Star Trek: The Next Generation from scratch for the BD-releases... But you know what? They kept it in 4:3. They also kept all the shoddy outdated special effects that look extremely awkward in the 21st century. Despite the fact that they went straight back to the original, unedited source film and recomposited everything (with the exception of like 4 minutes over the course of the entire show, where they were unable to locate the source footage and had to upscale the DVD-material instead), they went to great lengths to not do anything that would harm the integrity of the show that fans knew and loved. Which is why, even though the BDs are technically a "new version" of the show, TNG fans for the most part welcomed it with open arms. It was still very much the show they knew and loved... only no longer looking like a 1990s VHS-recording.
Disney has also kept the original aspect ratio for their older movies that were done back before widescreen was the standard anywhere, and judging from the fact that they haven't since gone and re-released Pinocchio in a Super Special Widescreen Edition, I'm going to assume that these 4:3 releases of their old classics still sold just fine for them.

At the end of the day, I must just agree with everyone saying that if FUNi had never cropped the show to begin with, and just released the Orange Bricks in 4:3, they still would have sold like hotcakes. Sure, a handful of people might have complained because the series didn't fill their TV-screens, but would anyone really have refused to buy the show for that reason? Furthermore, assuming the answer to that question is yes, would that crowd really have been sizable enough that the Bricks wouldn't have ended up being by far the best-selling anime releases of the years they came out? I rather doubt it. If Disney can turn a profit while releasing their old classics in 4:3, and CBS can go through the painstaking and no doubt incredibly expensive effort of redoing an entire 7-season show from scratch while maintaining an almost obsessive dedication to not doing anything that would change the overall experience and still have it be a success... FUNi could obviously have released Dragon Ball Z in its original aspect ratio and it would still print money for them. The Level sets didn't fail because they were 4:3... They failed because they were 4:3 after FUNi had gone out of their way to put the idea into people's minds that 16:9 was better, on top of being significantly more expensive than the Orange Bricks or the only just finished Dragon Boxes... well, back when the latter was still readily available anyway.