Is Goku a superhero?

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Is Goku a superhero?

Post by i'mfuckingevil » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:25 am

I regret that this question even needs to be asked but based on some petty arguments I've had both on the internet and in real life, to satisfy my own restfulness...asking the question here should give some conclusive remarks.

Is Goku a superhero?

My answer is yes.

Some people say he isn't...and it seems to me that the reason for this is because superhero is synonymous with comic book. In that, in order to be a superhero, you have to be a character from a series of comic books...so, Batman, Superman, Spiderman, they are all originated in comics so they qualify as superheroes, but Goku isn't because he didn't...

...except, he does, he originated in a manga. Do mangas not qualify as comic books?

-Better yet, there are a series of Bollywood films called Krrish, which, (obviously were influenced by Western comics, but) did not have any comic book origin, but are superhero movies. So does a superhero have to originate from a comic book to qualify as one?

What do you think?

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Re: Is Goku a superhero?

Post by Cetra » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:41 am

I think Goku is a (super) hero. A lot of people nowadays insist so much on reflecting the Toriyama-san interview in which he explained Goku's selfishness but the truth is, a) he never denied that Goku also can act out of something else than selfishness b) from a psychological point of view actually everything is selfish (as everything, even wanting to help someone root from your desire to help someone which ultimately means you do something for yourself - however if you do not want to count that, fine, I also think it should not be taken into consideration) and c) Goku very often does things that not originate from his selfish mindset as well as the definition of what a hero is, is very flexible and subjective.

If Goku were half as selfish as people claim he is he would not have chosen to stay dead. He stayed dead to prevent others from getting in danger again. But the selfish side would have just said "oh, no problem, I can fight them for you guys and OH! new enemy i have to fight". But no, he preferred something else.
Last edited by Cetra on Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is Goku a superhero?

Post by Vijay » Mon Mar 21, 2016 8:42 am

Lol

Goku is Jesus of Anime for Christ sake!

Superhero is childs-play when it comes to Goku. Sure, there are a TON of man's: Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Antman, IronMan bla bla bla....

Then, there's one. Goku. One & only Son Goku

Lol at Krrissh reference there pal. Dat film was absolute joke. Except Hrithik's suave presence, nothing was "good" abt the film. Talk abt having comic/manga as its source of adaptation. Bollywood got this habit of fu*king things up regardless of how great its original material is. Hrithik's Bang Bang is classic example of Bolly ruined TC's Knight & Day

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Re: Is Goku a superhero?

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:05 am

Spread the words apart from each other. Goku is both "super" in that he is capable of extraordinary feats (in all sorts of realms, including physical and spiritual), and he is also a "hero" in that he has performed selfless acts in support of other characters.

"Superhero" as a singular phrase, however, has a very specific connotation. It implies righteousness. It implies moral purity. It implies consistency. *1 & *2

Goku is some of those things some of the time (teleports Cell off of Earth), but more often than not, he is not those things (literally every single other thing he's ever done...?!). He is selfish and he constantly has ulterior motives. Yes, he is very loving and protective, but many times he's inadvertently being those things while striving toward something else.

I can't help but link these two specific interviews/Q&As with Toriyama:
Akira Toriyama wrote:There’s how, basically, Son Goku from Dragon Ball doesn't fight for the sake of others, but because he wants to fight against strong guys. So once Dragon Ball got animated, at any rate, I've always been dissatisfied with the "righteous hero"-type portrayal they gave him. I guess I couldn't quite get them to grasp the elements of "poison" that slip in and out of sight among the shadows.
Akira Toriyama wrote:At any rate, I wanted him to have the sense of being that rare guy who seeks only "to become stronger than before", so much so that it feels like "there’s no one as pure as this person". And while he does end up saving everyone as a result of that, he himself at least has a very pure sincerity about "wanting to become stronger". What I wanted to depict the most was the sense that he might not be a good guy at all, although he does do good things as a result.
Goku is a superhero in the literal sense of the word, but is not a "superhero". If that makes sense. He's a super-dude that made some very questionable life decisions!

*1 (And no, it's absurd to say that a "superhero" can't come from anything other than, say, the printed page of an American comic book. And manga is literally just a comic book, so yeah.)

*2 (Lots of comics eventually paved the way for flawed heroes; Batman does terrible things, Iron Man battles his own demons, etc. We all generally know this. However, the term "superhero" still brings about those early meanings/connotations/preconceptions for many people.)
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Re: Is Goku a superhero?

Post by Cetra » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:18 am

I cannot agree that a super hero is morally pure. Beginning with morals not being absolute, a lot of Super heroes have their "dark side" or whatever you want to call it, as well. Basically what you said with *2. Significant but that's it. And I think in a way Goku's pure heart could even count as that.
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Re: Is Goku a superhero?

Post by Vijay » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:30 am

I'm astonished at lengths you guys go to define "superhero"

I mean, sure. Morality, education does come into consideration. But hey, its fictional work. Not real-life person like Al Pacino, Tom Cruise, John Travolta etc who have been condemned for scientology & stuff

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Re: Is Goku a superhero?

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Mar 21, 2016 9:35 am

Vijay wrote:I'm astonished at lengths you guys go to define "superhero"

I mean, sure. Morality, education does come into consideration. But hey, its fictional work. Not real-life person like Al Pacino, Tom Cruise, John Travolta etc who have been condemned for scientology & stuff
I mean... do you want to actually have a conversation? Share ideas back and forth? Learn something new?

Posting "lolz nope not a superhero NEXT QUESTION!" isn't going to accomplish much. Sure, Dragon Ball is stupid and comic books are stupid and you can be out in the world having adventures and furthering yourself as a human being. But we're all here to talk about it, so might as well talk about it.
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Re: Is Goku a superhero?

Post by Vijay » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:01 am

VegettoEX wrote:
Vijay wrote:I'm astonished at lengths you guys go to define "superhero"

I mean, sure. Morality, education does come into consideration. But hey, its fictional work. Not real-life person like Al Pacino, Tom Cruise, John Travolta etc who have been condemned for scientology & stuff
I mean... do you want to actually have a conversation? Share ideas back and forth? Learn something new?

Posting "lolz nope not a superhero NEXT QUESTION!" isn't going to accomplish much. Sure, Dragon Ball is stupid and comic books are stupid and you can be out in the world having adventures and furthering yourself as a human being. But we're all here to talk about it, so might as well talk about it.
I wonder why you gotta be so authoritative all the time?

I get that your job is to moderate but there's this limit when it comes to reality & fictional entertainment for me at least.

I sure as hell like sharing & learning via various thoughful posts frm veteran members as Ajay, fadeddreams, ABED, Lord Beerus, sintzu etc

But I also tend to notice how minute, small things can be blown way out of proportion. My 2 cents

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Re: Is Goku a superhero?

Post by VegettoEX » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:09 am

But nothing's blown out of proportion. It's an interesting question with interesting tidbits to point to from the author. If you don't like the discussion, no-one is forcing you to participate. Please don't rain on someone else's parade with "this is a pointless conversation"; I don't think you would very much enjoy having that thrown at you during whatever conversation it is you happen to be having elsewhere about some other topic.
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Re: Is Goku a superhero?

Post by Vijay » Mon Mar 21, 2016 10:39 am

Who's raining on who's parade?

I posted how Goku is a cut above regular Superheroes. Even poked at Bolly's Krissh 3 which never had any comic/manga as backing for a Superhero series

Just an ordinary remark of "extent" could give off these much uneasyness/no one's forcing you/rain on someones parade kinda posts makes me think not twice, but thrice to even bother posting on a thread which VegitoEx has posted. Gosh...

Not playing victim by the way. I dont let anyone's insecurity sear my confidence.

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Re: Is Goku a superhero?

Post by sintzu » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:43 am

When I see the word superhero I think of someone like Batman or Superman who go around looking for people to save which doesn't describe Goku at all.
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Re: Is Goku a superhero?

Post by Cetra » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:48 am

sintzu wrote:When I see the word superhero I think of someone like Batman or Superman who go around looking for people to save which doesn't describe Goku at all.
So you think Gohan as the Great Saiyaman is the only Superhero?
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Re: Is Goku a superhero?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:57 am

Gohan and Videl seem the only one will fit under the normal superhero definition since they both go around saving other people. Goku does not really do that. He is a hero, but not a superhero.
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Re: Is Goku a superhero?

Post by Esfír Dedragón » Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:54 pm

Goku seems to be more of an "Accidental Hero" to me.
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Re: Is Goku a superhero?

Post by sintzu » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:08 pm

Cetra wrote:
sintzu wrote:When I see the word superhero I think of someone like Batman or Superman who go around looking for people to save which doesn't describe Goku at all.
So you think Gohan as the Great Saiyaman is the only Superhero?
I forgot about him but yeah he's the only one alongside Videl who fit the description.
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Re: Is Goku a superhero?

Post by Cetra » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:20 pm

sintzu wrote:
Cetra wrote:
sintzu wrote:When I see the word superhero I think of someone like Batman or Superman who go around looking for people to save which doesn't describe Goku at all.
So you think Gohan as the Great Saiyaman is the only Superhero?
I forgot about him but yeah he's the only one alongside Videl who fit the description.
Don't you think that is a bit ... supericial? Just because they do not act like Spider-Man or Superman and watch out for every crime that happens they are no super heroes? They still come when the world needs them. Selfish or not, I think at least at the end of GT when Goku fights Super Yi XIng Long is a superhero (and well that final round is not even a selfish one).
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Re: Is Goku a superhero?

Post by dbzfan7 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:25 pm

Esfír Dedragón wrote:Goku seems to be more of an "Accidental Hero" to me.
Agreed. Goku is definitely not a Superhero. The Great Saiyaman is a Superhero. Goku is not. Goku is a hero, sometimes. He's not really actively trying to save people, he just happens to. He's a morally good guy, sometimes, but he's very selfish. He's the guy who will go "Fuck the future, I want a strong challenge", which is what he does when it comes to the Cyborgs prophesied to be bring ruin. He's not totally evil as he wants to bring the fight away from people, but he's not good enough to prevent the people from ever getting hurt because of his selfish desire. No Superhero puts others in danger for their own selfish want. If they did then they're more anti-hero, or maybe an accidental hero. Goku doesn't use his powers to benefit mankind or help. He uses them for his own selfish gain. He's more like a Ancient Greek like Hero as Rocketman once said. That fits him more than a superhero. Toriyama himself doesn't even like the hero portrayal toei tried to paint Goku into.
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Re: Is Goku a superhero?

Post by Cetra » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:26 pm

dbzfan7 wrote: He's not really actively trying to save people, he just happens to..
You are not really convinced of that, are you?
dbzfan7 wrote:..., but he's not good enough to prevent the people from ever getting hurt because of his selfish desire.
Dead Cell Games Goku who does not want to be revived wants to disagree with you. Same does Boo Saga Goku who wants to train the future generation so they do not need him but can take care of themselves.
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Re: Is Goku a superhero?

Post by dbzfan7 » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:31 pm

Cetra wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote: He's not really actively trying to save people, he just happens to..
You are not really convinced of that, are you?
Yes. A superhero puts the world above his own needs. They do what's best for the people, not for themselves. Goku literally had the full opportunity to stop the world from falling into ruin, and said "Fuck it I want to fight them instead". No Superhero would ever do this. He's not heartless as he wants to limit casualties from his selfish desires, by taking away fights from people and wishing them back, but he does not put the people first ever. He puts a fight above all else. If it comes to a fight that could destroy the world, and peace. Goku will pick the fight that could destroy the world every single time. Goku doesn't want people hurt because of his selfish desires, but he puts his selfish desires above the safety of people. He's not full careless like Beerus, but he's pretty damn careless. Saitama is a better Superhero, and he's bad at his job.
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Re: Is Goku a superhero?

Post by Cetra » Mon Mar 21, 2016 1:34 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
Yes. A superhero puts the world above his own needs. They do what's best for the people, not for themselves.
Eh, extremely superficial and again treating moral like something absolute. As said as well, I can also play this game and say "what is better for others" is still a choice that is ultimately broken down to "what your own desire (the Freudian Id) asks the most for" from a psychological perspective. And as mentioned in my previous post, some time x-Goku wants to disagree with you.
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