Is Dragon Ball the Star Wars of anime?

[sintzu]

What's so difficult to understand about someone preferring new installments done "for the love of the art" rather than "for the love of profit"? Sure, with things like Star Wars and Dragon Ball, you're really only setting yourself up for disappointment (after all, GT was made immediately after Toriyama had ended on his own terms, just so Toei could cash in), but a person can dream.

Making art for art and making art for profit are not mutually exclusive, they're one in the same, it's a profession like anything else.

I agree that art is made to make $$$ but there are artists who actually care about their work and see more than $$$ signs.

Look at Chris Nolan, he could've made a batman movie every other year for the rest of his life and made money off them but instead he took his time with the ones he made and stopped with the 3rd one.

On the other hand you have directors like Micheal Bay who'll milk a franchise until it's dead regardless of how bad it messes up their and the franchise's reputation.

Look at Toriyama back in the day, he could've milked DB into the ground but decided to stop after his 10th year even though at the time it was at its most profitable while you have writers like Tite Kubo who kept writing Bleach until it got so unpopular and lost so much $$$ that the magazine it's published in might be cancelling it.

Look at CD Project Red, they could've milked gamers for everything in the witcher 3 but they didn't, instead they treated it and their fans with respect and put everything they had and then some into their game which is pretty much the complete opposite of how the majority of other publishers and developers work.

[MetaMoss]

What's so difficult to understand about someone preferring new installments done "for the love of the art" rather than "for the love of profit"? Sure, with things like Star Wars and Dragon Ball, you're really only setting yourself up for disappointment (after all, GT was made immediately after Toriyama had ended on his own terms, just so Toei could cash in), but a person can dream.

Making art for art and making art for profit are not mutually exclusive, they're one in the same, it's a profession like anything else.

I don't disagree, but there are certainly times when the profit side becomes the primary driver, to the detriment of the art.

[ABED]

My big issue is that we treat profit like it's dirty. Conversely we treat art as pure. And you can certainly make art with profit as your goal, but seeing as how no one knows exactly what will sell, that goal is hard to hit.

[MetaMoss]

My big issue is that we treat profit like it's dirty. Conversely we treat art as pure. And you can certainly make art with profit as your goal, but seeing as how no one knows exactly what will sell, that goal is hard to hit.

It would be naive for me to pretend that media I consume didn't have profit as one of the primary goals, but there's something to be said of a creator ending their work when they believe they've used the concept to its fullest, rather than when it stops giving them paychecks. I'd rather something go out when it's still enjoyable than have it fade away in mediocrity. That's not to say a creator can't come back to it or let someone else pick up the torch. Battle of Gods, Resurrection F, and The Force Awakens were all really enjoyable and more than worthy installments to their respective franchises. With how Super seems to be going and Disney's stated goal of making Star Wars a yearly movie franchise, things may not end well for either, but we'll have to wait and see how it goes.

[ABED]

I keep going back to the Bond example because it's apt, Every once in a while, the franchise is run into the ground but then it bounces back with a change in direction and fresh talent. And whether something is run into the ground or jumps the shark is a subjective assessment.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

My big issue is that we treat profit like it's dirty. Conversely we treat art as pure. And you can certainly make art with profit as your goal, but seeing as how no one knows exactly what will sell, that goal is hard to hit.

It would be naive for me to pretend that media I consume didn't have profit as one of the primary goals, but there's something to be said of a creator ending their work when they believe they've used the concept to its fullest, rather than when it stops giving them paychecks. I'd rather something go out when it's still enjoyable than have it fade away in mediocrity. That's not to say a creator can't come back to it or let someone else pick up the torch. Battle of Gods, Resurrection F, and The Force Awakens were all really enjoyable and more than worthy installments to their respective franchises. With how Super seems to be going and Disney's stated goal of making Star Wars a yearly movie franchise, things may not end well for either, but we'll have to wait and see how it goes.

I consume a lot of media with profit as one of the primary goals too, but nothing's wrong with that. People need money to get by in this world. Filmmakers are the perfect example of this, they are given budgets to make their movies, some of them make it back but not all do. It would be naïve for a filmmaker to make their film without even considering how they would not go bankrupt. Yes there are the Michael Bays of this world, but not all filmmakers can keep pumping out mindless action flicks based on known properties, you could even say Bay got lucky. Power Rangers was a popular property in the 90s and the 1997 film only made over $9 million at the box office. Conversely Star Wars is as popular as ever, The Force Awakens is the highest grossing film in domestic history, and unlike the Transformers films it's been well received critically.

As for Super, I'm cautiously optimistic with how the current arc is playing out, if it turns out to be an interesting and engaging story I will be open to seeing the series continue for a little while longer. It could be interesting if they really expand on the 12 universes, and give us good stories utilizing each one and the characters and gods within it. My thoughts on Star Wars are kinda similar because it's such a huge universe and spans so many generations, there is endless potential for great stories. I'm not too worried about it though, if Disney make one movie a year and take the time to hire quality talent and make sure the stories are well written and executed I'm all for it.

[DragonBallFoodie]

DB has undoubtedly been a major game-changer and definer to the anime genre. I think even Akira Toriyama himself was shocked and unprepared at how big it became.

Looking at anime history (my knowledge is only broad strokes though), before DB anime was divided into gag comedies and serious action. DB may have been the one of the first stories to successfully blend action and comedy in a manner that made it unique and appealing at the time. Its situations/characters of both silliness and seriousness made for awesome entertainment and set the trend for anime stories since to follow a similar format.

It also helps that when DB hit the USA and the English regions in the 90s, around the time of the major anime boom, people took to it like fire to oil. But while Toriyama may have gotten drained by putting so much into the saga, I feel that his reviving the franchise with BOG/ROF and Super proves that even in current times, with all sorts of anime stories out, his work is still fairly enjoyable and popular.

[chaosyoshimage]

While maybe not the most insightful addition to the topic, I did find it interesting to see multiple Star Wars fans in Dragon Ball apparel while I was attending Star Was Celebration, the biggest Star Wars con in the world, this weekend. No full cosplay, but some shirts and jackets and such. There were some other pop culture crossovers present, but none of the ones I saw were anime based (Unless one considers Pokemon despite its origins as a video game). Dragon Ball's popularity in the West will likely never have that same level of ubiquitousness that Star Wars enjoys worldwide, but I do think it's a property that has that same accessibility and ability to touch multiple generations.

[ABED]

Star Wars was a mainstream cultural phenomena and has incredible staying power. Dragon Ball is like that on a smaller scale. Dragon Ball is popular the world over. I don't know how popular it is in other countries, but in the US, it's as popular as any anime that's not called Pokemon and also has incredible staying power.