Your Fandom X Years Later

[MozillaVulpix]

Well, from my whole...2 1/2 years in the fandom...

I can definitely say I actually appreciate the series for what it is more. When I started watching the series, all I could see were the flaws, the formulas and the missed opportunities. It was only through something like DBZA where I could appreciate the story, because there it seemed keenly aware of flaws.

But the more I see the entire series start to end, the more I appreciate everything. I appreciate formula for making the stories easy to follow, and stopping story arcs from getting too out-there and different from the core of the story. And I appreciate inconsistencies if it's just a by-product of Toriyama trying something fresh, or if it leads to a much better moment later on.

And I found out the fandom was better than I thought, then worse than I thought, then better than I thought again. Basically, I found little parts of the fandom that are really enjoyable. But then I remembered they're not everyone and it makes me actually surprised when I get exposed to parts of the fandom I don't care about. I think I get a little insular.

Oh, yeah! And I realised the people who I don't agree with can still have valid points, and they can still deserve someone listening to them.

Yep, I really am young...

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

This series is probably the only real pop culture thing that I hold near and dear to my heart. When I was a kid and first discovering the show in the 90's it was kind of just a fun ride. My friend discovered the Ocean Dub on UPN in the mornings and I instantly fell in love. It came right at that sweet spot in my life where I was into Ninja Turtles and Power Rangers and this was like a whole different level of amazing. It disappeared for awhile and then I rediscovered it again on Toonami, when a lot of people my age did.

From 99'-04' I consumed everything: t-shirts, toys, video games, VHS', bootleg VHS'. I was hooked, but my knowledge was limited to a friend who would print screenshots from websites(hiding the htmls with sharpies), Becket magazine, the dub and the even more poorly translated subs. After GT ended syndication on Toonami I didn't have much to talk about with people(and I wasn't really a fan of GT anyway) but I continued to buy and play all of the games and that's were my fandom transferred around high school.

Around that time, in high school I started to grow more mesmerized by Toriyama's work in general. I wanted to know more about him as an artist and I started reading more books like Dr. Slump, Sandland...anything I could find. I love the simplicity but detailed works of his art, it's really something unique. That's when I started really digging into things and I found this place by following a linked reference to Daizenshuu on Wikipedia. That's when Pandora's box opened up truly.

I went crazy after finding this site. Reading all the interviews, learning about everything, talking to older fans on the site. I'm a dub guy who really appreciates Funimation and it's voice actors, their work is a big part of why I'm a fan in the first place but coming here I went back and re-watched everything in Japanese too. My knowledge grew to an obnoxious level but it was fun to discover/rediscover everything. It did get old though. There was a solid 2-3 years where everything was Dragonball: My art, my conversations, it kind of started to burn me out a bit so I cooled off and took a break.

Strangely that's when pop culture started bringing it back. Dragon Ball Z: Battle of Gods sparked a lot of America's interest in the show again and now all I see at Hot Topic, FYE, and websites are like Dragon Ball merchandise. It's cool to see and I'm falling back in love again(never really fell out honestly).

[z_cherub]

You're a grumpy old bastard towards me because you want to be. Just like I'm a grumpy old bastard towards fans that were born in 1995/2000 and got into the show via the dub that was already complete by the time they were old enough to talk.

I bolded that bit because its incredibly telling. You're personalizing a VERY broad sentiment and taking it as aimed directly "at you", when in reality I have absolutely ZERO idea who in the utter hell you are from Adam. Even within this forum, you're name rings not a single, solitary bell in my mind. We've never interacted before, and if we somehow did I can assure you I certainly do not remember one whit of it whatsoever. I have no familiarity with any of your posts or thoughts about anything here. Everything I wrote couldn't have been LESS aimed at you personally in anything that could even be mistaken for resembling a direct way.

And moreover you're also playing amateur psychic and telling me what my intentions "actually" are and putting words in my mouth, when the reality is that you, likewise, don't know who the fuck I am from Adam nor what any of the stuff that bothers me about later fandom actually is (seeing as how I haven't actually gone all that deeply into any of it yet).

Since you brought it up though, no I DON'T "want" to be nasty or hostile or "grumpy" or whatever towards ANYONE. I don't give two solid fucks when someone was born as a principal in and of itself. In spite of everything else, I've made actual, fairly tight off-site friendships with a few people who I've met on here that I have roughly close to a solid decade-ish (or just under a decade) in age over. The reality of the sources for where my issues with later eras of anime fandom are actually VERY nuanced and multi-faceted, enough so that it WOULD more than justifiably require one of my particular "giant sized" posts to really properly cover it.

And the real kicker is, in all honesty I don't even consider ALL of it to be even entirely their fault directly. Some of it is in actual fact very much tied more to shitty circumstances and weirdly specific timing of when various crucial things occurred within the broader anime industry of their time period, as well as a SLEW of other absurdly detailed cultural factors (both on the East AND Western ends of things) that I'll be the very first to admit I'm nowhere NEAR close enough to be considered any kind of an "expert" on in the slightest (but I try the best I can with grasping what bits of it I can all the same).

So don't for a second mistake this for some sort of "ah, fucking stupid kids!" mindless scapegoating-fest. There's certainly plenty of aspects of these things that I DO hold the younger fans accountable for, don't get me wrong, but it also damn sure isn't anything close to a black and white, 100% "they all suck about everything and are completely at fault for everything I don't like, always" type of thing.

But that doesn't really matter either honestly (partly because who the hell even knows if I'll ever get around to actually finishing and posting any of this shit: its not exactly my #1 priority in life at this moment): what really gets me about a post like this, beyond just the "I know what you're REALLY thinking"-style of reading into my thoughts and intentions, is that you yourself just admitted that you have a bias against fans who were born past a certain year, and are basically trying to make me "complicit" in that bias along with you (for whatever fucked up reason).

You're a grumpy old bastard... ...Just like I'm a grumpy old bastard towards fans that were born in 1995/2000 and got into the show via the dub that was already complete by the time they were old enough to talk.

By your own admission at least, you have a problem with being a "grumpy old bastard" towards fans of a certain age range. Whatever man, that's on you and good luck with that really. I on the other hand have some complex issues with the way that modern anime fandom has "evolved" (so to speak) over the years, and its brought me into awkward and uncomfortable conflict with a lot of younger folks in places like this... much to my honest to god, genuine regret: I'd LOVE nothing more than to just get along swimmingly with as many people as possible within these types of little subcultures as I possibly can. I enjoy few things more in life than meeting new people and making a lot of new friends wherever I can, no matter what their age or background.

Whatever your own issues with younger fans are, I have no idea what they are and I'm honestly not judging: just leave me the hell out of it and quit projecting. Cause that's what everything about that above quoted post positively reeks of: pure projection of your own issues onto a random stranger you just met.

Yes, I certainly have problems with younger fans from a specific era: quite a lot of them in fact. But NONE of it is because I "want to" and I DAMN fucking sure do not derive the slightest lick of enjoyment out of it. Why in the hell anyone would actively WANT to be and make a purposeful effort toward being an embittered, ostracized crank within a given group is a notion that is without a doubt entirely beyond me.

Oh for God sakes, come off it dude. You essentially said, "I hate younger fans". I'm a younger fan, evidently, so I made an impossible & absurd logical leap & concluded I was lumped into that group along with many others.

I'm not "projecting" - I'm just literally reading what you f*cking wrote. You can't pull the, "YOU DON'T KNOW ME" game & cry foul when someone basically just literally reads what you post.

That's like me posting that I want to brutally murder everyone that has a red shirt, you stating that you have a red shirt and that I have a problem with red-shirted people, then I reply, "Why would you assume that?! Zomg lol, you're personalizing what I just said because you have issues! YOU DONT KNOW ME - YOU CAN'T TELL ME WHAT I MEANT!!".

Unless you're at autistic levels of social retardation, you certainly see the inconsistency here...

You come off as one of those snide keyboard warriors that interrupts a civil conversation with "everyone who does x is inferior" comments, then laughably tries to "high road" it with the, "oooh, I hit a nerve huh?" canned reply. No, nobody's losing their cool more than likely, they just casually spot the person being an asshole and note it.

Take that for what it is - an attempt to outline the miscommunication above.

On to what I posted - my intent was to acknowledge that you come off as a grumpy old bastard (and you absolutely do, whether your limited social skills permit you to perceive it or not), not to judge, but to recognize that I have a similar reaction to certain corners of the fanbase.

While yours seems to be indiscriminately based on age, mine is based more on the attitude a fan takes to things like the Japanese cast, the original DB, the original script or manga, etc.

[VegettoEX]

Neither of you are particularly "good" at getting your points across in this thread without coming off terribly, and it would be helpful if you could acknowledge that about yourselves. z_cherub, let's be honest here: you're just plain ol' cruel, and yet you follow it up with the exact same thing you're railing against, which is "but I'm just pointing it out, so it's fine?!" I have absolutely zero reason to bother with your posts for the very reason that you personally outline about someone else's posts.

Something I was really reflecting on yesterday, and I'm not sure if it's worthy of a separate thread, was the tossaway comment I made about fandom basically "stalling" from ~1999-2002. Was it just me (and what Daizenshuu EX was producing), or was it everyone else, too? Because there really WASN'T anyone else. I'm not gonna pretend there weren't other fansites, but no-one else was producing major/important/worthwhile documentation at that point, either. So did we ALL collectively stop because we were too focused on fighting the boogeyman that was FUNimation and their awful dub? Or was it truly just an ego thing and there WAS a pocket out there that kept going but somehow faded away and got lost to time? I guess part of the answer there is that Hujio kept going on his own in silence and a few years later took the opportunity to launch Kanzentai, so there's that. It really did feel to me like the "old guard" (Wuken, Ed, etc.) all just stopped entirely when FUNimation's dub went through the transition. The syndication was a curiosity, but didn't otherwise affect what they were still doing for a couple years there... but they were ALL done by the time 1999 hit. Did the rest of us just burn them out and make them not want to bother? I don't blame them. And then did our own histrionics totally stall whatever progress we could have been making? Is that our fault? Or was that 1999 dub just that goddamn awful and ubiquitous that it couldn't be avoided?

[ABED]

None of this makes me feel old, I'm just aware that a lot of time has passed quickly and that feeling is going to increase over time. Back in 1996-99, I couldn't wait for the next video tape or next episode to come out, and it seemed like forever when it did. That was just a span of three years. More time has passed since then and yet if feels in some ways like less.

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

My fandom doesn't have very many years to retrospect on. I only discovered the series by watching Kai on Nickelodeon. I liked it enough that I wanted to read up on the "lore" so I read through the DBZ wiki (my mistake). Eventually I checked out all the manga volumes from the library to "get to the source" and was then fully converted. With Bog and Super, it feels like there's been a continual release of new DB content since I got into the series so I guess I joined at a lucky time

And Kanzenshuu was a life-saver. Have you ever tried talking about "Kuririn" or Nozawa on Youtube?

[ABED]

Something I was really reflecting on yesterday... but they were ALL done by the time 1999 hit. Did the rest of us just burn them out and make them not want to bother? I don't blame them. And then did our own histrionics totally stall whatever progress we could have been making? Is that our fault? Or was that 1999 dub just that goddamn awful and ubiquitous that it couldn't be avoided?

That's a great question. I don't know the answer. Was it a bit of a defeatist attitude? Like were you all thinking "I don't think we're going to get better than this in the USA"?

[z_cherub]

Neither of you are particularly "good" at getting your points across in this thread without coming off terribly, and it would be helpful if you could acknowledge that about yourselves. z_cherub, let's be honest here: you're just plain ol' cruel, and yet you follow it up with the exact same thing you're railing against, which is "but I'm just pointing it out, so it's fine?!" I have absolutely zero reason to bother with your posts for the very reason that you personally outline about someone else's posts.

Something I was really reflecting on yesterday, and I'm not sure if it's worthy of a separate thread, was the tossaway comment I made about fandom basically "stalling" from ~1999-2002. Was it just me (and what Daizenshuu EX was producing), or was it everyone else, too? Because there really WASN'T anyone else. I'm not gonna pretend there weren't other fansites, but no-one else was producing major/important/worthwhile documentation at that point, either. So did we ALL collectively stop because we were too focused on fighting the boogeyman that was FUNimation and their awful dub? Or was it truly just an ego thing and there WAS a pocket out there that kept going but somehow faded away and got lost to time? I guess part of the answer there is that Hujio kept going on his own in silence and a few years later took the opportunity to launch Kanzentai, so there's that. It really did feel to me like the "old guard" (Wuken, Ed, etc.) all just stopped entirely when FUNimation's dub went through the transition. The syndication was a curiosity, but didn't otherwise affect what they were still doing for a couple years there... but they were ALL done by the time 1999 hit. Did the rest of us just burn them out and make them not want to bother? I don't blame them. And then did our own histrionics totally stall whatever progress we could have been making? Is that our fault? Or was that 1999 dub just that goddamn awful and ubiquitous that it couldn't be avoided?

While there is some merit to your point about our fruitless disagreement here, I tend to think that coming off a little grumpy is different than asserting how much you hate other fans because of their age and regardless of any other factor are two different things. The former I kind of get, the latter is ridiculous, IMO.

If my responding in an abrasive manner to the latter attitude is "cruel", then I'm sorry it comes off that way.

To be clear, I recognize that too much of the "get off my lawn" mentality probably isn't good, but I also recognize I've developed a bit of it and don't hold it against anyone else in a hypocritical fashion. I DO take issue with the "everyone under X age is inferior" implied in some of his comments above - especially when someone makes such an inflammatory statement and then gets upset when someone takes exception to it citing, "you don't know what I REALLY meant" as an excuse.

It's not about what we mean, it's about how we present ourselves and how we're perceived by others (granted, I'm sure I look abrasive in this thread, but as noted above, it's not totally without merit, IMO).

In any case, I'd gladly buy you both a beet IRL given the opportunity

On topic - what got me through the "down time" you spoke of was the "Ultimate DBZ Information Site" by a guy named Greg I believe. Lost track of him, but you're probably more familiar than I.

It was a great site that highlighted the differences in the Ocean dub (all that was in NA at the time) and the original. It also let me read up on what happened in the rest of the Freeza arc before I found the fan subs (although it sounded like his re-telling was based on Anime Labs subs in retrospect).

That mey be a part of the "dark times rallying against the evil Funimation" to you as well, but I tend to recall it as a time of discovery of the actual source material and remember it fondly.

[VegettoEX]

You can buy me a beet, but I'd prefer a beer!

If you're talking about Greg Werner's "Ultimate DBZ Info Site" (and not Chris Psaros' "DBZ Uncensored"), I just interviewed him on the podcast for our 400th episode and you should listen to it .

[z_cherub]

You can buy me a beet, but I'd prefer a beer!

If you're talking about Greg Werner's "Ultimate DBZ Info Site" (and not Chris Psaros' "DBZ Uncensored"), I just interviewed him on the podcast for our 400th episode and you should listen to it .

D'oh. Beer it is.

I AM referring to the Ultimate DBZ Info site - I'll absolutely give that a listen - thanks!

That was a fantastic part of my fandom when I was only a couple years in - I still recall waiting on my awful dial up to load his Piccolo tiled wallpaper as the background, lol.

[B]

And I found out the fandom was better than I thought, then worse than I thought, then better than I thought again. Basically, I found little parts of the fandom that are really enjoyable. But then I remembered they're not everyone and it makes me actually surprised when I get exposed to parts of the fandom I don't care about. I think I get a little insular.

This is very relevant to my experience as fan as well, and it's kind of a mixed bag. It's never good to live or exist in a vacuum, but... aren't those different parts of the fandom doing the exact same thing? You've got multiple bubbles going on, but the only difference I see, personally, is the bubble I've chosen to sit in is dedicated to embracing what Dragon Ball is truly about and what it has to offer. The other bubbles seem to actively, willfully ignore that; the only reason my bubble is a bubble in the first place is because other folks wanted their own bubbles. So when somebody occasionally links to a crazy YouTube troll or some other message board where people are posting nonsense things, I always tilt my head as to how this stuff is even uncovered. This is the most knowledgeable, comprehensive place for DB information. The only reason you would end up anywhere else is if you didn't want that type of experience; you wanted an experience catered to you as opposed to what that experience actually is.

On the other hand, I guess I can understand the scope and the breadth of these other factions being fascinating. DBZ Abridged is huge. That Facebook image of "Toriyama's press conference" moved like wildfire. People will actually take stock in those inane YouTube ramblings, so if your goal is to spread the right information around, I suppose you have to be peripherally aware of it all. My condolences and respect to those who undergo such tasks.

[z_cherub]

You can buy me a beet, but I'd prefer a beer!

If you're talking about Greg Werner's "Ultimate DBZ Info Site" (and not Chris Psaros' "DBZ Uncensored"), I just interviewed him on the podcast for our 400th episode and you should listen to it .

Just listened to the podcast you directed me to. That was fantastic!

I completely lost track of Greg over the years. I assumed he was a decade my senior, but to find out he's maybe 1-3 years older than me tops, and put out the material he did on in that site at that age is fantastic. I couldn't have run a website in middle school or at 16/17!

Greg is almost single-handedly responsible for my love of the original DB/Z cast and the subs (and maybe a bit of my "grumpy old man" attitude towards old Funi and people that prefer that dub that still lingers 15+ years later).

I was blissfully ignorant of a lot of what was going on in the "community" at the time (renting dbz fan subs from an anime shop near me and checking Greg's site for updates was the extent of my community involvement), but it's interesting hearing about all of that after the fact.

Thanks for the great work there!

[Kunzait_83]

I tend to think that coming off a little grumpy is different than asserting how much you hate other fans because of their age and regardless of any other factor are two different things. The former I kind of get, the latter is ridiculous, IMO.

You essentially said, "I hate younger fans".

While yours seems to be indiscriminately based on age

I'm going to try one final, final time to make this as clear and unmistakable as I possibly can: I at no point EVER said (or at least INTENDED to convey) that I "indiscriminately hate all younger fans" with some kind of seething, burning passion. Again I've maintained, and continue to maintain, dearly held friendships IRL with more than my fair share of younger fans: if I loathe and despise all fans below a certain age, I'm certainly doing a shitty job at it by remaining very good friends with so many of them. My issue isn't some sort of seething vitriol that goes for each and every single fan below a certain age range on an individual basis. That would be fucking just plain idiotic and irrational.

All it boils down to is this: I have a lot of very nuanced and specific problems with overall shifts in trends and attitudes across wider anime fandom that occurred during a specific time period and that is generally attributable to a specific subsection of younger fans from within a certain age range. That does NOT in ANY way translate to "I irrationally and indiscriminately hate anyone and everyone ever whose birthday is below X date". Having issues with VERY broad viewpoint shifts across a whole subculture and despising each and every last person within that subculture on an individual level are two ENTIRELY different things from one another.

I'll more than happily take responsibility and apologize for conveying that point terribly and awkwardly if you'll concede that you're blowing what I tried to say (however poorly) into a wild, wild, over-exaggerated and reactionary extreme. That fair enough?

If my responding in an abrasive manner to the latter attitude is "cruel", then I'm sorry it comes off that way.

If I had to guess, I'd wager he was referring to stuff like this:

Unless you're at autistic levels of social retardation, you certainly see the inconsistency here...

You come off as one of those snide keyboard warriors that interrupts a civil conversation with "everyone who does x is inferior" comments, then laughably tries to "high road" it with the, "oooh, I hit a nerve huh?" canned reply. No, nobody's losing their cool more than likely, they just casually spot the person being an asshole and note it.

On to what I posted - my intent was to acknowledge that you come off as a grumpy old bastard (and you absolutely do, whether your limited social skills permit you to perceive it or not)

This is escalating into WAY overly needlessly personal insults now. I accused you of projecting, which was probably inappropriate of me to begin with: but you're response then was to basically call me an "autistic social retard". Call me crazy, but I'd say that that was a MORE than disproportionate reaction given the discussion. Again neither of us knows each other, and this sort of unthinkingly fast escalation is exactly how an awkward disagreement turns into a VERY asinine, 4chan-like internet squabble.

If nothing else though, this thread has certainly clinched that I'll probably not be doing that thread about my "fandom history/deconstruction" after all. I originally avoided touching on it back in the day because I saw clearly that it would be all but impossible for me to find a way to convey it without it then leading to people getting incredibly over-defensive and thus probably lead to all kinds of tedious back and forths like this, which I simply just don't have the patience or the time or the energy for: and I was probably right.

[z_cherub]

lots of stuff I mostly agree with

Mostly fair points. I did, perhaps, misconstrue your hate for younger fans as you seem to have put it more eloquently here (or I'm just doing a better job of understanding now).

I'm not personally attacking you or your character, just being very blunt about how you come across in this instance. I'll gladly concede that this has gone on for far too long, & that I played a part in that with the hyperbole I used in the areas you quoted.

As I already said, no hard feelings on my end, & I'd still gladly buy you a beer should we have the opportunity to meet in person if for no other reason that we're both fans of a great show and part of a (mostly) like-minded community here

[jjgp1112]

Man, this takes me back. I'd been familiar with Dragon Ball since at least 1999 - that was when I recall first seeing a Namek saga episode on Fox Kids or one of the other early morning syndication blocks on New York network TV. In fact, whenever I watch the episode where Vegeta steals the Dragon Balls from Frieza's ship, I get taken right back to that day in 1999 and wondering what was up with the spiky haired fuckface .

From there, I started seeing it all around me. My friends were fans. My older brother and his friends, who were in high school and the polar opposite of the type of people you'd picture being anime fans (more like extras in a Jay-Z music video :p) used to watch bootleg fansubs. Shit, back in 2000 my mom got me a DBZ bookbag assuming I was into it too. But whatever cable service we had back then didn't carry Cartoon Network so I was out of the loop and resented the series. Whether it was some preconceived bias or sour grapes because I wasn't in on it (the likelier of the two), I dunno.

That all changed on April 2, 2001 (only reason i remember the date was because it was the day after WrestleMania 17), when we got DirecTV in my house. Naturally, the first thing I did was watch Cartoon Network. I liked what I saw, and later on I randomly changed it to catch one of their shows and lo and behold, Dragon Ball Z was on. I scoffed in disgust and changed the channel, until I noticed something - the dude in the orange had black hair on my bookbag, but on the episode I just flipped to, it was blond and spikier. Wazzupwitdat?! So I flipped back in hopes of uncovering the Mystery of the Golden Hair.

That decision pretty much changed my entire life, if we're being honest. It was the episode where Goku stepped down from his fight with Cell and chose Gohan in his place. It immediately caught my interest and the story of Gohan, a little kid, having all of this potential but needing to find it within himself to bring it out left me wanting to see where it went next, and when Gohan snapped and transformed, I was hooked for life. My friends couldn't have been happier - after months and months, I finally "got" what they'd been trying to get me hip to for so long. One of them lent me his big ass Pojo DBZ magazine, and so the rest of 2001 was spent flying down the Dragon Ball rabbit hole. Just as gripping to me about DB was the art style, and I liked to draw a lot as a kid, so I spent a lot of time finding any pictures I could draw. I'd never gotten into a series at that level before. 5:30 on Weekdays were an event in elementary school, and I'd hang out at my friends place watching AMVs set to the same Linkin Park songs, too.

I'd say that initial phase of my fandom peaked around 2004, which is also when I first discovered this site. Other interests and general anime fatigue made my interest in Dragon Ball wane, until a friend of mine in 2007 told me about the season sets. I'd never watched the uncut DBZ from the beginning so I gave it a shot, and suddenly my days of being a Dragon Ball Junkie had returned! In a vastly different way, of course, as now I'm not a whimsical kid living vicariously through the show and trying to draw every last piece of artwork associated with it. I've milked as much out of the story as I can, and I'd say over the last few years my interest in the show has faded again. Simple burnout I guess. It's been 15 years, and the latter half of those years exposed me to the more fractured end of the fandom.

Plus, One Piece has pretty much cannibalized my interest. After a while, watching the same ol' DBZ cast gets incredibly stale, and One Piece presented a fresh new story and crop of characters while carrying the same spirit, energy and humor of Dragon Ball, while also presenting a vaster universe, deeper characters, and a richer story. But that's not to say I still don't love Dragon Ball. I guess I'm just a bit more...detached, is the word?

[Kunzait_83]

Mostly fair points. I did, perhaps, misconstrue your hate for younger fans as you seem to have put it more eloquently here (or I'm just doing a better job of understanding now).

Thank you. Cause once again: there's a reason that if you were to actually look back through my earlier posts in this thread, you won't find the word "hate" used once. There's a reason for that: if I ACTUALLY hated all younger fans, you know what I would have said? "I hate all younger fans." I'm kinda direct that way usually.

The idea that I'm just trying to be snide with and hurtful towards people (particularly random, faceless strangers) in some Machiavellian, "carefully worded" manner is absolutely fucking laugh out loud bonkers: if for no other reason than it implies I have anywhere NEAR the time, dedication, energy, and inclination within my 32-year-old-man real life for even passingly bothering with that kind of petty, asinine nonsense... on of all things, a fucking forum dedicated to a fucking kids' cartoon. You're confusing me literally with a stereotypical 4channer in that respect: anyone who's known me for 0.2 seconds IRL knows that I'm about as much the antithesis of that type of internet persona as it gets.

I have DEEPLY strong disagreements with the very core, fundamental nature of the direction that a BROAD MAJORITY (but certainly not each and every single last individual one) of younger fans have taken U.S. anime fandom as a whole over the last 16 years. I'd like to think that those feelings are at the very least SOMEWHAT justified and rooted in tangibly coherent and logical arguments...

...but that's moot at this point, cause back and forths like this continue to reinforce the notion in me that no matter WHAT approach I could conceivably come at this from, there just IS NO "palatable" way of putting any of this that WON'T instinctively set off some deeply, deeply held emotions in people that make them reactionarily lash out rather than actually just calm the hell down, set aside the childhood baggage, put on their critical thinking caps, and just listen for a second and potentially be reciprocative towards a (what would be for most people on a place like this at least) radically different perspective on Japanese anime that hasn't been a part of the fandom narrative since at least the early-ish 2000s.

Not that I probably put even the vague allusion to it here in anything resembling the "best" way possible, so that much at least is on me.

As I already said, no hard feelings on my end, & I'd still gladly buy you a beer should we have the opportunity to meet in person if for no other reason that we're both fans of a great show and part of a (mostly) like-minded community here

The sentiment/offer is very much sincerely appreciated.

[Akira]

I've responded to topics like this one many times, but this time I do not wish to recap my history with the series in full detail. I'll high point it within a paragraph, then move onto responding to some of the things that have come up within this topic. Became a fan in 1995ish, with the dub of the first 13 episodes of DB in an afternoon cartoon block. I was a teenager at the time. Got sick of watching those same episodes re-run a few times and cancelled, and wanted to know if Goku got to train with the old turtle master, and what happened next. That led to a difficult quest of tracking down people with fansubbed VHS tapes and trading around stuff to get my hands on more of the series. Ended up seeing everything fansubbed, while simultaneously checking out the new dub of Z that came around in 1998 or so. Was a tail end joiner to the earlier generation of fans, and experienced their non-internet assisted struggle of acquiring new material, but embraced the newer generation fans just getting interested in the show with Cartoon network and the aide of internet searches. Rode that horse, was considered one of the older fans even back then, and a guy many turned to when they had questions about the series and its story. So the story goes for many of us, faded interest, revived interest as new material, OVAs and movies started to trickle out late last decade.

Now, I always have come back to this site all these years, because the guys running it and creating content always had some new factoid or new snippet or historical context that I found fascinating. I rarely posted anything, but would click here from my bookmarks menu once or twice a month to see what, if anything was new to read about. The forums continued to be well moderated, and bad apples swept out from causing too much of a ruckus. Go anywhere else online in the english speaking realm of internet travel, and tell me if there is any place even remotely related to Dragonball discussion that you'd be able to stand for more than a day before just saying to heck with it, it isn't worth the headache. There isn't such a place, and I believe the few remaining older fans that have any interest in discussing things anymore have congregated here, or are lost to time otherwise.

There does exist a generation gap here, with the jumping on point being different for many of us. This has always been a haven for all Dragonball fans, past, present, and hopefully future fans will feel welcomed here too. What can we enjoy about what brings us together? What can we share or learn from different perspectives? That is part of what makes Dragonball a generation gap spanning bridge. I found this out myself when the Resurrection of Freeza movie hit theaters. I went and saw it with two guys that I work with. We were all equally excited to see it, but there is about a 10-15 year age gap between myself and them. They got all excited about the other anime trailers being shown at the theater, and were whispering that this might have to become a regular event. I just shrugged my shoulders and said, "Guys, maybe not for me. I know Dragonball, and have long enjoyed it, but I don't have the slightest clue what all this other stuff is, and I think I might be too old to even try to understand any of it. Count me in if they make another Dragonball feature though."

One of those guys, the one closer to me in age, has been watching Super religiously, and asks me every week if I saw the latest episode and wants to discuss it. Subtitles and original voice cast are his cup of tea too. The other guy, the youngest of us, won't even watch it. Says he has to wait for the english version because he can't quote "deal with Goku sounding like a girl." So, even though the property brought us together for that movie, and for two of us, Super continues to do so, there is a stark difference where one of us broke from the rest, probably based on his point and time of entry to the series.

There was of course a time when I would have jumped his case and told him how wrong he was, and how he was missing out, but I just shrugged and said, "well, we can discuss it when the dub eventually comes out then." I let it be at that, and just respected the differing opinions on things. That's what we need to do more of here, come together when there is common ground, and agree to disagree rather than start a slam fest when there is a point of contention. All that does is make people dig in and hold their ground rather than anyone having their opinions changed on anything. Ever since I've adopted this position, I've had a more enjoyable time here.

My advice to fellow older gen guys is this, we know the most about things, and need to take the role of archivist, or historian, or guru of information. There is a ton of information, and we can be the ones to answer questions or set things straight if there is confusion on various aspects of the series from over the years. How that information is received is all based on how we present it, and how we present ourselves when explaining it.

My advice to the younger gen fans is this, you're just as important to the fanbase as anyone else, and more so to its continued success as a global franchise. If you've been around, be nicer to the even younger guys coming in, and help explain things to them, and answer questions they may have. You have to take the reigns, and show them that this is a fun series, and fun discussions. The rest of the internet is going to turn them off to DB fandom if everyone acts in a standoffish, dismissive manner. Let the new fans see that there is a haven for serious discussion here.

My advice to those just getting into DB, read the original manga, it is the purest form of the story. Check everything against that for reference. "TL;DR" is a form of dismissal, and if your attention span is too short to read the manga or read what others have to say, then don't expect anyone to read or take seriously anything that you spent time and effort typing up. A post where you dissect and quote various parts of someone else's post for the sole purpose of trying to counterpoint every aspect of it, really isn't anything anyone cares to wade through trying to see what you have to say. Respect is a two way street, and I'm making every effort to not block the oncoming lane. Give respect, and you'll earn respect. Have fun, and enjoy this wacky story that we all seem to love so much.

(For reference, nothing in this post is directed at any one individual or response. It is meant to be nothing more than a generalized goodwill statement, and a smoothing of what I perceive as some rough pavement.)

[Ozotto]

I've been a fan since it first aired in Canada back in the early 90's on YTV.
Nothings been the same since.
Had lots of the action figures and stuff growing up from christmas and birthdays.
Lost interest around the time GT aired, played ultimate battle 22.

Early 2000's Budokai games kept me going. I think there may have been the odd movie release.
The games got progressively worse as time went on, peaked at Budokai 3... Tenkaichi was meh, kinda cool cuz of characters but meh.

Started getting stuff like Yo son Goku & Friends return and the remake of Plan to Eradicate the Saiyans.

It didn't feel the same, it had been too long, I appreciate the older stuff more now because of the newer stuff.
I know any new games going forward will always have super characters and won't pander to my nostalgia so I'm glad i kept every DBZ game I ever owned.

The figures/ toys have gotten a lot better quality tho.

[Xeztin]

I was born in the late 90's so I didn't get to have the fun of collecting the old Japanese audio tapes back in the day which were hard to come by. I was however introduced to Dragon Ball at an early age. Around 2001-2003 I recall a friend having the Japanese Dragon Boxes and tons of unopened figures covering his wall. I also recall him getting the PS2 solely for Dragon Ball Budokai and Mortal Kombat Deadly Alliance. That Budokai game was my real introduction to Dragon Ball, and after that I became curious and he let me watch the show introducing me to that as well. Eventually I discovered it on Toonami and began watching it on a regular basis along with Yu-Gi-OH! While Dragon Ball came on at nights, Yu-Gi-Oh! came on during the mornings. I remember constantly bugging my cousin to let me open the DBZ action figures and let me play with them, he'd always reply no. Back then I thought he was being mean but after I got older and reflected back on that I started to understand. He eventually grew tired of Dragon Ball and sold all of his collection, games, manga, boxes and all for a few thousand if i remember right. He replaced them with another series, but I forgot what it was. I want to say it was Yu yu hakusho. Anyways, after that Dragon Ball stuck with me ever since that time and though there has been a lot of times where I stepped away because of no new content, I've always held it to be the best series ever. I would say my fandom has grown years later along with my knowledge and its most likely because of this site which I give you all my thanks for that! Dragon Ball has a rep of having the worst fan-base ever but I don't see it on this site. I'm guessing when people say that, they refer to the early 2000's which I sadly wasn't old enough to be apart of the fan base back then.

[Thanos]

I've been a fan since 2000. In not so long, I'll have been into it for 20 years. That's pretty incomprehensible for me. Hell, I've even been on this forum for almost ten years. It's one of the few constants in my life in terms of interests. It's the one thing that, for whatever reason, my interest never seems to waiver, even within the confines of anime. I haven't been into anime outside of Dragon Ball as a genre in over ten years. It's gotten to the point where, after nearly two decades and well over half my life, I'm going to start having to face the real possibility that I will most likely be a fan for life, even if I outlive the series' activity and popularity... I can't see the interest suddenly dying. I'm as into the series as I've ever been (save for perhaps the "honeymoon phase" of being ten years old and discovering something new and bad ass), so it's literally a fixture of my life and part of my identity. So odds are, my future children will end up being fans.

I wasn't intending to unload quite that much, but it's only been since I've been making this post that I've come to a couple of those conclusions, so do forgive me.