Was the Saiyan arc the perfect ending for Dragon Ball?

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Re: Was the Saiyan arc the perfect ending for Dragon Ball?

Post by dbgtFO » Thu Apr 21, 2016 5:25 am

sintzu wrote:
MajinMan wrote:I JUST wrote a response to the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai ending points written by sintzu, but my internet crashed as soon as I hit submit. ABED basically wrote what I had to say so there we go.
This has nothing to do with the topic but if you write a long reply you should copy it in case something like that happens without you knowing.
Indeed! Lord knows how many posts I've lost due to a sudden problem with posting it(whether that be connection problems or Kanzenshuu suddenly having internal server problems).

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Re: Was the Saiyan arc the perfect ending for Dragon Ball?

Post by Kuririn Fan » Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:18 am

The Cell arc would be far from satisfying ending. Our protagonist, Son Goku, staying dead at the age of 30, depressed Vegeta giving up on fighting and little nerd that doesn't like to fight being forced as the new main character. No, fuck that, the series needed to continue and i'm glad it did - the Majin Boo arc is favorite.

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Re: Was the Saiyan arc the perfect ending for Dragon Ball?

Post by ABED » Thu Apr 21, 2016 7:53 am

Kuririn Fan wrote:The Cell arc would be far from satisfying ending. Our protagonist, Son Goku, staying dead at the age of 30, depressed Vegeta giving up on fighting and little nerd that doesn't like to fight being forced as the new main character. No, fuck that, the series needed to continue and i'm glad it did - the Majin Boo arc is favorite.
Goku died after hundreds of episodes, and why should we care that Vegeta is depressed? He's a douchebag. Why is Vegeta giving up on fighting unsatisfying? While I have my qualms with the way he was written in the arc, the idea of someone taking Goku's role as Earth's protector is fine especially as a coda. Goku might have died, but he was vital to killing Cell. So what if he's a nerd? Lastly, I'm not a fan of the Buu arc, it's too long, the comedy undercuts the tension far too much, and as it gets closer to the end, it seems like Toriyama just wanted it to be over with.
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Re: Was the Saiyan arc the perfect ending for Dragon Ball?

Post by Kuririn Fan » Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:07 am

All i'm saying is, there was absolutely no reason to end it with depressing Cell arc, the manga ending is fine. Dragon Ball started as a gag, light-hearted series and i love Boo arc because it returns to the roots and Dragon Ball deserved that kind of ending.

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Re: Was the Saiyan arc the perfect ending for Dragon Ball?

Post by Gorou » Thu Apr 21, 2016 8:13 am

The cell arc final wasn't so depressing; Goku was dead but was still happy in the afterlife, where he would continue to fight other great fighters
However, I think that the original final is even better.
Last edited by Gorou on Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Was the Saiyan arc the perfect ending for Dragon Ball?

Post by ABED » Thu Apr 21, 2016 9:33 am

The Cell arc isn't what I would qualify as depressing. Breaking Bad is depressing. Even at its darkest, there's still plenty of light-heartedness. Yes, it started as a gag manga, but it moved away from that pretty quickly. The Buu arc has a lot of humor and that's an issue I have with it, it's too lighthearted. It undercuts the drama at every turn, which is my biggest problem with Marvel's phase two.
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Re: Was the Saiyan arc the perfect ending for Dragon Ball?

Post by sintzu » Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:28 am

Kuririn Fan wrote:Our protagonist, Son Goku, staying dead at the age of 30, depressed Vegeta giving up on fighting and little nerd that doesn't like to fight being forced as the new main character.
When you put it that way it's a very bad ending so thankfully he continued with another arc.
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Re: Was the Saiyan arc the perfect ending for Dragon Ball?

Post by ABED » Thu Apr 21, 2016 11:44 am

sintzu wrote:
Kuririn Fan wrote:Our protagonist, Son Goku, staying dead at the age of 30, depressed Vegeta giving up on fighting and little nerd that doesn't like to fight being forced as the new main character.
When you put it that way it's a very bad ending so thankfully he continued with another arc.
Sure, when that's your perspective, but I'm not sure why anyone would honestly consider it depressing.
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Re: Was the Saiyan arc the perfect ending for Dragon Ball?

Post by apex_pretador » Thu Apr 21, 2016 12:32 pm

I'll be honest. Saiyan arc is the WORST place to end the series.

1. Goku's character:

Saiyan arc adds 0 to goku's character except explaining why he loved fighting ever since he was a kid and the explanation to transformation (which was already given in BoZ arc). If anything, the freeza arc completes his character (which still continues to grow in cell & Buu arc). Except revealing that he's an alien, I'd say that this arc does the least to add to goku's character.

2. Piccolo:

Piccolo was supposedly son of a demon who separated from god himself. He is a fighter, a bloodlusted enemy of goku, the strongest on earth after goku. He was suddenly given a backstory. Leaving it just as it is, isn't justified.
Also, his death is definitely the worst way to settle things.

3. Exploring the universe:

Dragon ball started as an adventure exploring the world. At 23rd TB, goku has far, FAR surpassed anything on earth, including god himself, nothing left on earth. After arrival of raditz, then nappa and vegeta, it seems possible that it is now the time to explore the strongest beings in the universe, because why not?

Freeza arc gave a solid conclusion to this after defeat of the strongest in the universe and a NEW strongest in the universe.

4. GOHAN

A Major point. Gohan has HUGE build-up by this point of time, he can't be just dropped like nothing. BoZ arc builds him up to the top and then the piccolo training, all just ends with nothing? The potential?

5. Death of humans

Humans stay dead? Why so? Isn't it an untimely death due to battle for earth's safety?

6. Vegeta

Does vegeta get killed ? If no, then will he come back later? Will he bring any non-saiyan alien allies to earth with him? What if goku isn't strong enough to face him? How will they handle him? What if he just plans to deal destruction to earth and run away?
If yes, then when? Is it with the spirit bomb? Or krillin cuts him with a sword? Because the latter will be too dark to end the series IMO.

7. Planet namek?

8. Dragon balls

The series is DRAGON BALL, and it ends with lack of dragon balls just because piccolo saves goku's kid? Kami's death is meaningless and so is death of DB's. A lack of concern about dragon balls to end the dragon ball series? No, jsut no.

-__________________________________________________________________________-
With that said, 23rd TB is the only "alternate ending" which works IMO.

Freeza arc comes in a distant second.
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Re: Was the Saiyan arc the perfect ending for Dragon Ball?

Post by Lord Beerus » Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:43 pm

Hell no. The Saiyan arc opened an almighty can of worms with the revelation of Goku's origins and with the fashion in with the Dragon Ball universe was expanded, ending the story on that note would have been beyond ridiculous and a waste of a story. I would be like accidentally finding a winning lottery ticket and then ripping it in half and throwing it in the trash.

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Re: Was the Saiyan arc the perfect ending for Dragon Ball?

Post by sintzu » Thu Apr 21, 2016 4:59 pm

The original story ending after the Saiyan arc would be like the current DB story ending after the Beerus arc.

"Yeah there's someone who can easily defeat Goku and everyone, the someone who trained him is even stronger, there are 12 universe and Vegeta will reach Goku's level without any ritual but you don't need to see how any of that plays out so it's ending here, bye"

How illogical would that be ?
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Re: Was the Saiyan arc the perfect ending for Dragon Ball?

Post by Captain Strawberry » Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:29 am

Toriyama already foreshadowed Frieza as the root of evil. Besides, they couldn't end it as Vegeta and Nappa were just part of a organization; presumably on the lower part with Frieza being on the top.
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Re: Was the Saiyan arc the perfect ending for Dragon Ball?

Post by Godo » Sun Apr 24, 2016 2:24 pm

I believe that the Freeza arc would be the most fitting ending, since Goku there accepts his Saiya-jin heritage.
But as for his character development, there are also the time where Goku finds out that he is the root of all evil enemies that attack Earth in the end of the Cell arc (and decides to stay dead), as well as him (briefly) putting the next generation on the task to protect Earth (Gohan and later Gotenks). But those two instances do not really stick IMO, as Goku still returns and also defeats Buu by himself, and also since Gohan, Goten and Trunks don't keep training after all.

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Re: Was the Saiyan arc the perfect ending for Dragon Ball?

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Apr 24, 2016 9:25 pm

Ending on a depressing note would be out of place for Dragon Ball. That would be like if Star Wars ended with Empire Strikes Back.

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Re: Was the Saiyan arc the perfect ending for Dragon Ball?

Post by keyz05 » Mon Apr 25, 2016 12:25 am

I don't think so. The story would feel unfinished.

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Re: Was the Saiyan arc the perfect ending for Dragon Ball?

Post by Travis Touchdown » Wed Apr 27, 2016 12:12 am

I always felt the Cell Saga was the perfect ending for the following reasons:
1. You have the story be about Goku's childhood and ending with his death. His character arc is complete and the torch is passed down to his son.

2. Since Trunks is an adult and the Androids were the only threat in his time, it wouldn't have been hard to believe that there were no more villains for our heroes to fight.

3. Vegeta's arc was finished. Vegeta tried hard to beat Goku and not only did he fail, he was even eclipsed by Goku's son. With Goku dead, he'll never avenge the loss he suffered in the Saiyan Saga. He even declares his will to fight is gone.

4. The Super Saiyans all tried to surpass the form and came to the conclusion that it couldn't be done without seriously debilitating side effects and so they go back to using the basic form, only to finish off Gohan's arc by having his hidden power that's been built up since his introduction be the way to successfully push beyond Super Saiyan and the form was exclusive to him.

5. Finally, from a story point of view it was nice to see an old enemy from Goku's childhood return with the Red Ribbon Army and it was the last time the non-Saiyans were of any use of help.
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