Does Toriyama hate Gohan and Yamcha?

[floofychan333]

He's basically ruined Gohan from what I've heard about DB Super...and of course he makes it so Yamcha never gets a big break. Would you people think Toriyama hates these 2 characters?

[Cipher]

There's that scene in Super when Vegeta sneaks up on both of them when they're sleeping and just draws a big ol' dick on both of their faces that really surprised me! I didn't think they could get away with such a thing in children's shows anymore. They weren't even in the same place--Vegeta just tells Bulma he's going out and sneaks into both of their houses. It really shocked me that Toriyama would write something like that.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

No,he does not. Gohan and Yamucha aren't that interesting to Toriyama which is why they aren't that relevant but it does not mean he hates them.

- Travis

[NitroEX]

I think it's clear to anyone with open eyes that he does. Granted, Toei might've also been behind Gohan's fall from grace as they treated him pretty poorly in GT but if we're being honest with ourselves, you have to acknowledge that they're getting their stories straight from the man himself and if Toriyama chooses not to do anything with Gohan (other than getting his ass kicked and shamed on every occasion) then you can't place all the blame on them.

DB Super and the new movies have made me lose a lot of respect for Toriyama as a storyteller because it's clear that he let's his personal feelings towards certain characters get in the way of telling a good story. He had a perfect opportunity to fix the mistakes he made during the Buu arc and repair the damage done to these characters but instead he chose to be spiteful and play favourites, he's only made things worse by coming back in my opinion.

As cruel as it sounds, Yamcha is beyond saving at this point. There's no rebuilding his public image, he's been thoroughly emasculated for decades.

[sintzu]

Apart of Bulma and Vegeta, everyone who've been introduced ended up like this so I don't think he has anything against them, it's just that he doesn't know how to use them and the majority of the cast for very long.

[Araki]

DB Super and the new movies have made me lose a lot of respect for Toriyama as a storyteller because it's clear that he let's his personal feelings towards certain characters get in the way of telling a good story. He had a perfect opportunity to fix the mistakes he made during the Buu arc and repair the damage done to these characters but instead he chose to be spiteful and play favourites, he's only made things worse by coming back in my opinion.

I completely disagree. He's taking the natural route he believes his characters have to follow, that's it. Some fans of course will disagree because they have their own favorites and always want their most beloved characters to stay relevant, no matter how ridiculous the excuse is - and Toriyama isn't like that. The thing is, Toriyama was never the type to find reasons to make a character who fell into the background rise and shine again, just to please anyone. THAT would be letting it get in the way of telling a good story.

But if Toriyama were playing favorites he wouldn't have, for instance, Vegeta replacing Piccolo in the tournament, as he always had more sympathy for Piccolo.

[NitroEX]

I completely disagree. He's taking the natural route he believes his characters have to follow, that's it. Some fans of course will disagree because they have their own favorites and always want their most beloved characters to stay relevant, no matter how ridiculous the excuse is - and Toriyama isn't like that.

Yeah... no. Nerfing characters like Gohan & Gotenks then giving Vegeta a second wind when the Buu arc basically established he had hit his peak is not "the natural route", it's the exact opposite. When a character's popularity is the main thing driving their prominence in the story, you have a problem. The only ridiculous excuses I see are from fans who defend Toriyama's bad decisions.

The thing is, Toriyama was never the type to find reasons to make a character who fell into the background rise and shine again, just to please anyone. THAT would be letting it get in the way of telling a good story.

Vegeta's been elevated compared to what he was before and I think pleasing fans is definitely a reason for it. You also have Freeza and Trunks being shoehorned in which I'd class as fanservice so I think you're wrong there.

Anyway, I was trying to point out that he had the opportunity to fix past mistakes and not repeat them. He didn't have to stick to his old ways and keep burying characters but he did just that, he could have utilized his supporting cast for once and the story would've been better off for it but he instead chose not to. Also, I don't see how using characters like Gohan in a more prominent role (and not humiliating him) would have gotten in the way of telling a good story, Is Super's story good the way it is? I don't think so.

[Bagginses]

There's that scene in Super when Vegeta sneaks up on both of them when they're sleeping and just draws a big ol' dick on both of their faces that really surprised me! I didn't think they could get away with such a thing in children's shows anymore. They weren't even in the same place--Vegeta just tells Bulma he's going out and sneaks into both of their houses. It really shocked me that Toriyama would write something like that.

I have as of yet never seen a SINGLE episode of DB Super. Could you tell me the episode number in which that scene happens? I'm pretty curious.

A bit OT, but by the way, how deep Toriyama is involved with Super?

[RedRibbonSoldier#42]

There's that scene in Super when Vegeta sneaks up on both of them when they're sleeping and just draws a big ol' dick on both of their faces that really surprised me! I didn't think they could get away with such a thing in children's shows anymore. They weren't even in the same place--Vegeta just tells Bulma he's going out and sneaks into both of their houses. It really shocked me that Toriyama would write something like that.

I have as of yet never seen a SINGLE episode of DB Super. Could you tell me the episode number in which that scene happens? I'm pretty curious.

A bit OT, but by the way, how deep Toriyama is involved with Super?

It was a joke

[LightBing]

If find the idea that the author hates any of his characters beyond ridiculous. I won't deny many characters sliding into the background, without any consideration for some type of "closure", for the lack of a better word.
That doesn't mean they are being marginalized. Sometimes I think people have an inferiority complex regarding their favored characters, making them see everything through a very narrow scope. Not everybody can receive the same treatment as Goku. Which by the way implies losing, a lot...

[Kanassa]

Has he stated that he hates them anywhere? Because you could apply your current evidence to most DB characters. Plus, Akira already explained that when writing Gohan in high school, he realised that Gohan shouldn't become a fighter. He saids that the more he wrote, the more he saw a different direction for Gohan.

The only thing I've heard pertaining to his dislike of a character is that he might of said one time that he doesn't like Vegeta (Though I do not know if that is true).

[Bagginses]

There's that scene in Super when Vegeta sneaks up on both of them when they're sleeping and just draws a big ol' dick on both of their faces that really surprised me! I didn't think they could get away with such a thing in children's shows anymore. They weren't even in the same place--Vegeta just tells Bulma he's going out and sneaks into both of their houses. It really shocked me that Toriyama would write something like that.

I have as of yet never seen a SINGLE episode of DB Super. Could you tell me the episode number in which that scene happens? I'm pretty curious.

A bit OT, but by the way, how deep Toriyama is involved with Super?

It was a joke

LMAO, I considered that possibility, but didn't actually write it down. I even thought about it, but gave up. But, I'm glad that didn't happen in Super, for obvious reasons.

Anyway, pretty elaborate joke, huh?

It's just that this forum is so crazy, I cannot even tell fact from fiction in some instances...

[Kuririn Fan]

Yeah, we're crazy, man.
I never thought that Vegeta drawing dicks on Gohan and Yamcha could be a joke.

[dbzfan7]

No. He does not hate them. Just doesn't seem interested in them. Which is fine, as he's not interested in like 90% of the cast anyways. He's really bad at keeping a group interesting, and shines mainly at sticking to just a few characters. Oda is more of a group person who at least tries to do more with a cast. When Toriyama tries to force someone in he isn't particularly interested in using and doesn't like, you get an absolutely awful relationship with Goku. The only worthwhile thing was them having kids, and that's it.

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... nakatsuru/

Toriyama: To be honest, I’m really not fond of Chi-Chi as a character. (laughs) In the middle of the comic, I started to think, “I don’t want to draw her anymore,” and, sort of as a way of spiting myself, I decided, “you’ll have to draw her if she gets married to Goku, so marry them off!” So, I drew her as a kind of punishment. (laughs)

I don't really buy the natural direction proclamation or damn that's a lot of bad comic book direction in american stories for what's said to be a natural progression of storylines and characters.

[JulieYBM]

Something tells me nobody has ever created a story before. Good writing is not shoe-horning nack into the story every character. It is doing what you eant in a clear, enticing and fun manner. If Toriyama has no interest in doing something, he has no interest. If he's going to putsome effort into something he might as well do what pleases him. If you don'tlike it, go elsewhere. Nobody is accomplishing anything.

[Bagginses]

Yeah, we're crazy, man.
I never thought that Vegeta drawing dicks on Gohan and Yamcha could be a joke.

I just have seen so much weird shit here and elsewhere across the internet that to me pretty much *everything* is possible now...

And yes, spending 5-10 (or more!) years on the Internet arguing about a fictional universe doesn't speak ''HEATHLY MIND!!!'' to me either...

[Lord Beerus]

"Hate" is very strong word to throw around. I'd say Toriyama is more indifferent towards the characters more than anything.

[Cipher]

It was a joke

Are you sure? My memory's a little hazy, but I feel like something like that must have happened with the way these threads keep cropping up.

Otherwise people would just be exaggerating based on weird, character-specific viewings.

[omaro34]

There's that scene in Super when Vegeta sneaks up on both of them when they're sleeping and just draws a big ol' dick on both of their faces that really surprised me! I didn't think they could get away with such a thing in children's shows anymore. They weren't even in the same place--Vegeta just tells Bulma he's going out and sneaks into both of their houses. It really shocked me that Toriyama would write something like that.

Which episode was this if you mind me asking? I don't recall this.

[omaro34]

DB Super and the new movies have made me lose a lot of respect for Toriyama as a storyteller because it's clear that he let's his personal feelings towards certain characters get in the way of telling a good story. He had a perfect opportunity to fix the mistakes he made during the Buu arc and repair the damage done to these characters but instead he chose to be spiteful and play favourites, he's only made things worse by coming back in my opinion.

I completely disagree. He's taking the natural route he believes his characters have to follow, that's it. Some fans of course will disagree because they have their own favorites and always want their most beloved characters to stay relevant, no matter how ridiculous the excuse is - and Toriyama isn't like that. The thing is, Toriyama was never the type to find reasons to make a character who fell into the background rise and shine again, just to please anyone. THAT would be letting it get in the way of telling a good story.

But if Toriyama were playing favorites he wouldn't have, for instance, Vegeta replacing Piccolo in the tournament, as he always had more sympathy for Piccolo.

Piccolo's purpose in the tournament was for everyone to find out about Frost and his cheating ways. Buu served no purpose, which is sad. I was looking forward to seeing him in action.

To answer the OP's question, I think there's hope for Gohan. Ever since Gohanw as introduced the story was foreshadowing his incredible hidden potential through 2 consecutive arcs. To see how he is now is disappointing to Gohan fans, but it is what it is.

Yamcha on the other hand, is just in the background now. I rarely see him on the show, he rarely says anything, and when he does he almost screws up (Yamcha nearly exposing to Goku that Monaka was weak in front of everybody, nearly angering Beerus).

Another character that gets no love despite his dedication to martial arts is Tenshinhan. He is my second fav in the series, but I accepted the fact that he is never going to be relevant in Super.