"Kakarotto" vs Other Spellings

[veshira]

Err... nope. I lived in Italy where I've watched all the Dragon Ball trilogy... and I'm pretty sure those were the names: Karot and Vegeku. In fact the episode where Vegetto appears and battles Buu is called: "Vegeku contro Majin Bu". Many websites like Dragon Ball Arena corrected the name, while others like: http://www.otakuland.it kept the original Italian dub names.

Really? Wow. Never knew that. Grazie, signore!

Refer to my sig.

I seriously hope you didn't write that.

He didn't. "The Great Saiyaman" did.

[TripleRach]

That fun detour taken, I choose Kakarotto. Why? I take it as a foreign name. Do you call a Spanish person named Juan "John"? I don't.

If it were written in kanji or hiragana, then that would be a good point. But it's written in katakana, and clearly a pun on an English word. Romanizing it so that it resembles said English word is not bastardizing it or Americanizing it; the Japanese can easily see the connection between カロット and カカロット, so making it so that an English speaker can also easily see the connection to "carrot" is actually a more accurate transliteration than kakarotto is.

[Daimao]

That fun detour taken, I choose Kakarotto. Why? I take it as a foreign name. Do you call a Spanish person named Juan "John"? I don't.

If it were written in kanji or hiragana, then that would be a good point. But it's written in katakana, and clearly a pun on an English word. Romanizing it so that it resembles said English word is not bastardizing it or Americanizing it; the Japanese can easily see the connection between カロット and カカロット, so making it so that an English speaker can also easily see the connection to "carrot" is actually a more accurate transliteration than kakarotto is.

If it were カカロト instead of カカロット, I think the case for the final "o" would be a lot stronger, but in the vast majority of cases, that ット ending indicates a hard "T' ending for words in katakana ("allegretto" being the only exception on that page).

I don't begrudge anyone their choice of spellings, though. Not to contradict TripleRach, but "Kakarotto" is absolutely the most accurate transliteration into English. In my opinion, "Kakarrot" is the better translation into English, because the pun is preserved (which is what I think you were trying to say). Use whichever one you prefer.

Why not "Kacarrot" or "Cacarrot"? I dunno, they just "look" wrong. Spelling it that way would be krazy. There's a legitimate case to be made for it, though. YMMV

[TripleRach]

I don't begrudge anyone their choice of spellings, though. Not to contradict TripleRach, but "Kakarotto" is absolutely the most accurate transliteration into English. In my opinion, "Kakarrot" is the better translation into English, because the pun is preserved (which is what I think you were trying to say). Use whichever one you prefer.

Aye, that is what I meant. I knew "transliteration" probably wasn't the right term, but couldn't think of what the word I'd wanted was. Figures it would be a simple one.

But I'm not trying to knock anyone's choice of spelling, either. I'm just disagreeing with the analogy of Kakarotto -> Kakarrot being similar to Juan -> John.

[Xyex]

I usually stick with the Kakarotto spelling, if for no other reason, than to make the origins of Vegetto's name more obvious.

That and the "o" and the end of Kakarotto seems more audible than some of the ending vowels like the ones on Raditz or Oob. Particularly when Broli says it in Movie 10.

Ah, the line from movie 10. That's the first time I ever heard his name in the Japanese version, from a clip of that, and it's the reason why I use "Kakkarotto" in my fics cause it just sounded like "Kak-ka-rot-to" though, typically in posts I'll right "Kakarotto" mainly because of Vegetto but I still say it as Kakarot. I just leave to last two letters silent. *shrug*

[desirecampbell]

If it were カカロト instead of カカロット, I think the case for the final "o" would be a lot stronger, but in the vast majority of cases, that ット ending indicates a hard "T' ending for words in katakana ("allegretto" being the only exception on that page).

I don't begrudge anyone their choice of spellings, though. Not to contradict TripleRach, but "Kakarotto" is absolutely the most accurate transliteration into English. In my opinion, "Kakarrot" is the better translation into English, because the pun is preserved (which is what I think you were trying to say). Use whichever one you prefer.

Why not "Kacarrot" or "Cacarrot"? I dunno, they just "look" wrong. Spelling it that way would be krazy. There's a legitimate case to be made for it, though.

That's exactly the kind of answer I was hoping for - facts about how the language works. There's no 'anti-Kakarrot' argument left

YMMV

"You make me violent"?! No! We've angered the deamon! Thank goodness I have this 'mystical holding canister' now

[The S]

How did this turn out to be such a grand masse argument? Obviously someone is trying to vindicate their lack of knowledge of the Japanese language, and is drawing it out any further than it should be.

the s is pretty much silent

(says nothing more)

[Olivier Hague]

First post here... Hi guys!

How do we know Kakarroto is his real name?

We don't, but it can be inferred... Kinda. Sorta.

I mean, we do know that the name "ベジータ" (beji-ta) is supposed to be spelled "Vegeta" in our alphabet, as that's how it's spelled in official Japanese merchandise (most of the time, anyway).
And then, we know that the name "ベジット" (bejitto) is supposed to be spelled "Vegetto" in our alphabet, for the same reasons.

While I've yet to see the name "カカロット" (kakarotto) spelled in our alphabet in any official Japanese book/game/figure/whatever, you pretty much have to assume that the alphabet spelling should end with the letter "o". Otherwise, the official spelling "Vegetto" wouldn't quite make sense, would it?
Without the final "o" in Gokû's Saiyan name, the "Gokû/Vegeta fusion" would be named "Veget" or "Vegett", and that would be even more biased towards Vegeta than "Vegetto" already is. ^^;

As for the rest of the name...

Well, it's obviously based on the English word "carrot", but "carrot" actually becomes "キャロット" (kyarotto) in Japanese, not "カロット" (karotto), as the English "ca" is generally pronounced/spelled "kya" in Japanese, rather than "ka".
So the kana spelling "kaka" becoming the alphabet spelling "kaka" appears to be a safe bet. It's not necessarily "the" correct answer (I guess you'd have to ask Toriyama), but it's the simplest one and it's logical, at least.

Then, we have the "ro" part...
Should it be "ro" or "rro"? "Rro" would make the "carrot" pun more apparent, but would also make the final name even longer than it already is ("Kakarrotto")... Not that the name wasn't long already in Japanese...
I don't know which one I'd choose, really. I guess it could go both ways (and again, Toriyama or some Tôei/Bandai guy could come up with something else altogether anyway, like "rho" or who knows what).

So I guess I'd say "Kakarotto" or "Kakarrotto"?

The "o" at the end of kakarotto (カカロット) is extraneous and unnecessary, simply due to the way the Japanese language is.

The thing is, sometimes, it's not "extraneous". Sometimes, it's actually meant to be there. And here, I'd say that's the case.

What's left to discuss?! It's not a matter of preference, of translation, or faith. There's a correct way to say it, and an incorrect way. Just like how you wouldn't say Bejita, you shouldn't say Kakarrotto.

Er... Sorry, but how do you know which way is the correct one, here?

Look at Aeris/Aerith from Final Fantasy VII. エアリス is a Japanese transliteration of 'Earth'

No, that would be "アース" (a-su), actually.

In kana, the name is "エアリス" (earisu) and in alphabet, it was always supposed to be "Aerith".
Now, according to a Japanese guide, the alphabet spelling "Aerith" was based on the English word "Earth": an anagram, with an extra "I" thrown in (for no reason explicitly stated by the guide). That guide was written by Studio BentStuff and they're generally reliable, so I don't think they made that up.

Whoever translated the game decided to change the alphabet spelling of the name to "Aeris"... But that was just the US localization team's choice at the time. They went back to "Aerith" after that.

[MajinVejitaXV]

Look at Aeris/Aerith from Final Fantasy VII. エアリス is a Japanese transliteration of 'Earth'

No, that would be "アース" (a-su), actually.

In kana, the name is "エアリス" (earisu) and in alphabet, it was always supposed to be "Aerith".
Now, according to a Japanese guide, the alphabet spelling "Aerith" was based on the English word "Earth": an anagram, with an extra "I" thrown in (for no reason explicitly stated by the guide). That guide was written by Studio BentStuff and they're generally reliable, so I don't think they made that up.

Hey Olivier, great to see you here. I've seen you at GameFAQs and was shocked to see your name here, but in a good way

I was actually going off of Studio BentStuff's "Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega" guide when I mentioned エアリス being related to the English word 'Earth'. "Transliteration" was a bad choice of words though, sorry for the confusion.

One thing though, and keep in mind I'm an amateur in Japanese, how does one decide whether to translate a ス as 's' (Trunks, for example) as opposed to 'th' (Aerith, Sephiroth)? Typically, the 'u' isn't pronounced, so I'm at a loss as to how one would determine the correct romanization. If I was reading the katakana, I wouldn't render it as 'Aerith'.

-Corey

[Olivier Hague]

Hey Olivier, great to see you here. I've seen you at GameFAQs and was shocked to see your name here, but in a good way

Oh. Hi. ^_^;

I was actually going off of Studio BentStuff's "Final Fantasy VII Ultimania Omega" guide when I mentioned エアリス being related to the English word 'Earth'.

Actually, I was referring to another non-Ultimania guide of theirs that was released back then (almost ten years ago, now?? you've got to be kidding me).
I didn't know about that explanation also being in their recent Ultimania guide. I guess it just gained a few Credibility Points, then.

One thing though, and keep in mind I'm an amateur in Japanese, how does one decide whether to translate a ス as 's' (Trunks, for example) as opposed to 'th' (Aerith, Sephiroth)? Typically, the 'u' isn't pronounced, so I'm at a loss as to how one would determine the correct romanization. If I was reading the katakana, I wouldn't render it as 'Aerith'.

Well, it's not like there's a given "rule"...
Myself, I always try to check if the authors/makers have specified an "official romanization". If I find something, I generally go with that.
If I don't, on the other hand... Well, you just have to "guess". See if the name already exists in the real world or in other works of fiction, if it's a pun, etc...

In the case of "sefirosu", for example, even without any official spelling, one could deduce that it has something to do with the kabbalah, and thus decide that "th" is a "more likely" possibility for the final "su"... But you can never be 100% sure that's indeed what the author had in mind (supposing the author had a specific romanization in mind at all).

[MajinVejitaXV]

Well, it's not like there's a given "rule"...
Myself, I always try to check if the authors/makers have specified an "official romanization". If I find something, I generally go with that.
If I don't, on the other hand... Well, you just have to "guess". See if the name already exists in the real world or in other works of fiction, if it's a pun, etc...

In the case of "sefirosu", for example, even without any official spelling, one could deduce that it has something to do with the kabbalah, and thus decide that "th" is a "more likely" possibility for the final "su"... But you can never be 100% sure that's indeed what the author had in mind (supposing the author had a specific romanization in mind at all).

*nod* I figured that was going to be the answer, I just figured I'd ask anyway. Trunks and Sephiroth are more clear cut, whereas if I were to look at Aeris I wouldn't first think of it as having any ties to the word 'Earth' (if anything, I'd think it was tied to Erith/Eritha, which is a Hebrew name meaning "flower", which justifies 'Aerith' anyway).

Hm, my looking into this has been fairly educational. Thanks for entertaining my questions, and for your explanation on the topic matter. Hope you stick around, I always enjoyed reading your input at GameFAQs.

-Corey

EDIT:I'm completely wrong. The reference to Aerith being tied to the English word 'Earth' doesn't come from the Ultimania Omega guide, it came from "Final Fantasy VII: Kaitai Shinsho". I'm mixing up my resources >_<;;