Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Zephyr wrote:The only argument I'd give in favor of leaving most attacks untranslated is that Vegeta has his attacks already in English, even in the Japanese version. That sort of sets them apart. If you translate all of everyone else's attack names, what's left to set Vegeta's attack names apart? At the same time, a lot of the Japanese names can definitely be a mouthful, but I think that this is the lesser of two evils.
True, good point. I guess it's mostly just the lack of any kind of notation explaining them, in those particular cases. I was able to find out what stuff like 'kikoho', 'kienzan', and 'makankosappo' would roughly mean, but stuff like the attacks I mentioned? I don't think I found out the origin of those until a good few years after first encountering them, so some kind of notation or something would definitely have been helpful.
In the grand scheme of things though, it was just a small, personal nitpick though, nothing deal-breaking.
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Polyphase Avatron wrote:The translation issue doesn't matter, what I said still applies either way...
Well, not really. It's not about a power level debate and probably has nothing to do with the fans either.
Big Green: Do whateveryoulike, Ghos
Broly: haha He calls me a goohst, but IMMMD DA DEVVVVAAALLL! RAHAHAHAHA!
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Trunks: "Dhe computer selffishy intesnafiy dosuementos."
Android 13: Yum Boy
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Vegeta: The Legendary Warrior of SpaZe.
Gyt Kaliba wrote:I guess it's mostly just the lack of any kind of notation explaining them, in those particular cases. I was able to find out what stuff like 'kikoho', 'kienzan', and 'makankosappo' would roughly mean, but stuff like the attacks I mentioned? I don't think I found out the origin of those until a good few years after first encountering them, so some kind of notation or something would definitely have been helpful.
Oh yeah, definitely. It'd be nice if we could see what the attack names are supposed to mean, because that likewise adds context to things. Like the "ma" in "makankosappo" and "masenko" are the same, indicating that Gohan is adding "demon" to his attack name, out of respect for Piccolo.
Polyphase Avatron wrote:The translation issue doesn't matter, what I said still applies either way...
Well, not really. It's not about a power level debate and probably has nothing to do with the fans either.
What I meant was it doesn't change the fact that it's possible to interpret the line that way.
I agree. As soon as Zen'ou was introduced and said to be the supreme being, if people started to picturing him as a fighter, considering his power in terms of actual strength, that's just like Goku and Vegeta did.
I think that line was written not as a jab though, but to clarify it based on the natural reaction the Dragon Ball audience would have.
"while mostly fine" Hmmm...
It's because of what he wrote that one time about reddit and Dragon Team, so no matter how much he improved, he'll always be terrible.
Kuririn Fan wrote:"while mostly fine" Hmmm...
It's because of what he wrote that one time about reddit and Dragon Team, so no matter how much he improved, he'll always be terrible.
Incorrect. That's an excuse he likes to throw around when questioned. That page used to not recommend him at all, but has since been updated. That doesn't change the fact he is spotty at best.
But hey, you admitted he wasn't great and that you don't care about accuracy, and that's all that matters. I'm not here to argue with you about your poor fansub choices, I just don't want folks reading this thread and getting bad information.
The posts and reactions really speak for themselves. Hopefully this person can get the help they need somewhere else. We can't be that community for them. I wish them all the best, and expect they'll probably just come around at some point again, anyway (they always do).
Carry on!
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
Ozotto wrote:Spend most of your life ruled by another, watch your race dwindle to a handful...and then tell me what has more meaning than your own strength.
I actually read that subconsciously in Sabat's voice.
So did I. Then you look at my signature lol
And looks like I was right about Kuririn Fan from the beginning. Oh well.
On topic, I just watch the raw and read Herm's tweets then come here. Otherwise, I'm waiting for the dub.
I'm sorry to take this off topic, but... what the hell happened in here? Oh my god. I feel like I should apologize for this kid's comments and I didn't even have anything to do with them.
Anyway, I don't know if this line was a jab at fans (whether it's determining, or putting a lot of faith in power being a bad trait), but it is very true. Then again, there aren't many strategies in DBZ (not so much Dragon Ball). I don't know how it is in Super, but in DBZ, everything was kind of determined by power and strength. The only thing close to strategy that I can think of from DBZ, was Cell and Goku realizing that the "ascended" form of Super Saiyan wouldn't get the job done despite power due to speed. Sure, in Resurrection "F," there's kind of strategy when they're training with Whis (as I said, I don't know about Super; this is all I have to go by), but I feel like it's not enough to erase the general notion that power rules all. I mean, come on, what was it, two movies or 40 episodes or so and we already had two brand new transformations? So I don't think the series can blame the fans for following along the trend that was set. It was always a simple formula: Villain beats up hero; stronger hero comes and defeats the villain; stronger villain comes and outshines the hero; hero finds a way to get even more powerful out of nowhere and defeats the villain. With that formula, who can blame the fans for putting so much importance on power?
Polyphase: That pic was exactly how I felt when I entered this thread before work, and read through and saw the overkill senseless stuff that had been posted apparently minutes before I clicked on the thread. I chuckled when I saw that just now. Thanks for that, I needed it after a long day at work.
Anyway, now that the thread is back on track, I found it interesting that many of you came to this same conclusion. I also thought it was a subtle jab when I watched the episode. It was most assuredly an episode of despair. The first time we were introduced to Future Trunks, he came in out of nowhere and straight wrecked the (at that point) most powerful villain yet seen in the series before warning the others of an upcoming threat. This time we see him struggling to survive in a way that makes the reign of the androids look like nothing. I am anxious to see what happens next, and I rather enjoy watching the team struggle despite the two primary characters becoming gods themselves.
It really had to evolve in this fashion for the series to continue, and for Toriyama to write in ways that bring the unexpected. I liked Whis's comment, because it shows that it will take a little more planning and thought to win fights in the future, rather than straight overpowering everyone. He makes his comment about saiyans in general, but the intent is clear, he is guiding his pupils towards greater heights. Even older guys like Son Goku and Vegeta can learn a thing or two to become more efficient warriors. I liked it from an in-universe perspective, as well as the "read between the lines" as a lesson for the fans too. Very well done.
"Of" =/= "Have"
Contractions:
-Should have = Should've
-Could have = Could've
-Would have = Would've
The heck does "should of" even mean anyway? Think about what those two words mean individually, and then try to read them back to back in a sentence and make sense of it. Are you forming a prepositional phrase, is "should" a part of a larger grouping, or are you just typing random words based on how you think you hear them used verbally? Perhaps take a moment to contemplate this, and see if it becomes as mind jarring for you to look at as it does for me..
Akira wrote:It really had to evolve in this fashion for the series to continue, and for Toriyama to write in ways that bring the unexpected. I liked Whis's comment, because it shows that it will take a little more planning and thought to win fights in the future, rather than straight overpowering everyone. He makes his comment about saiyans in general, but the intent is clear, he is guiding his pupils towards greater heights. Even older guys like Son Goku and Vegeta can learn a thing or two to become more efficient warriors. I liked it from an in-universe perspective, as well as the "read between the lines" as a lesson for the fans too. Very well done.
Yeah, I think so too. Could possibly be hinting at this new enemy having other qualities than just his strength that makes him a difficult opponent.
I imagine he's going to be weaker than Beerus, but might escape the wrath of the Gods by using abilities not dependent on overwhelming power.
Yeah. Looks to me that the line just means that Goku and Vegeta shouldn't judge people based solely on their strengths. Probably a hint that a new villain or Zen’ō is more than just a guy who punches hard and throw ki blasts. A hint that they have some kind of reality warping, matter manipulation, or any other kinds of abilities that can beat someone even if he's several times weaker raw power wise.
Which makes me think that Toriyama's comment about " confusing bits with time changing here and there " might tie into this. Probably the new foe will have some reality warping abilities ?
Shut up Whis, half the guess work and madness over powers wouldn't happen if you just spoke up and gave us some details to work with!
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
I never really saw it as a jab at the fanbase. I don't think Toei or Toriyama take much consideration into what people think in regards to battle power.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Which is why I think that Toriyama's response to any elaborate power explanation from anyone would essentially come to: "Cool story bro!".
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
Spoiler:
Absolute Zamasu(my name for their fusion) wins. He fulfils his utopia and dwells in his loneliness(x amount of time for this to happen). He starts to doubt of his achievements, Goku's body influences him to seek out challenges but there's nothing. Perfection becomes a curse. Absolute Zamasu starts to dread his existence and presents himself to the Omni-King, detailing on his actions.
Using his powers the Omni-King restores everything to the moment before Goku and Vegeta perish, humanity's last barrier. Zamasu concedes. He ask for forgiveness(mainly to Goku, Gowasu and Trunks) and understands that his justice isn't justice at all. He asks for judgement and the Omni-King delivers.
Trunks is forced never to travel in time ever again, all the time-machines are destroyed.
ekrolo2 wrote:Which is why I think that Toriyama's response to any elaborate power explanation from anyone would essentially come to: "Cool story bro!".
I dream of a day that Akira Toriyama himself creates a Kanzenshuu account, goes into the Dragon Ball Super Power Level Discussion Thread and The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread, posts a comment saying "lol" in both of those threads, logs out and never returns to the forum again.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
ekrolo2 wrote:Which is why I think that Toriyama's response to any elaborate power explanation from anyone would essentially come to: "Cool story bro!".
I dream of a day that Akira Toriyama himself creates a Kanzenshuu account, goes into the Dragon Ball Super Power Level Discussion Thread and The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread, posts a comment saying "lol" in both of those threads, logs out and never returns to the forum again.
Correct that to, "www", and have him forget his login details once he sees a response that interests him to answer with something he made up on the spot and I think that little sidestory ends perfectly.
