So in retrospect Freeza during Namek wasn't all that strong
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So in retrospect Freeza during Namek wasn't all that strong
Freeza managed to take over most of the galaxy (or even most of that 1 universe, now that we know there's 12 universes), but in retrospect Namek era Freeza wasn't all that strong.
He's been passed up time and time again by Saiyans, demons, androids, sealed away creatures, etc. It almost looks odd in retrospect how "weak" Namek era Freeza was when a basic just transformed Super Saiyan 1 was more powerful than he was, or at least even that he had to use 100% of his power to fight.
Makes you wonder how Freeza's reign of terror managed to go on for so many years that he and his family had an entire empire and never ran into anyone stronger.
He's been passed up time and time again by Saiyans, demons, androids, sealed away creatures, etc. It almost looks odd in retrospect how "weak" Namek era Freeza was when a basic just transformed Super Saiyan 1 was more powerful than he was, or at least even that he had to use 100% of his power to fight.
Makes you wonder how Freeza's reign of terror managed to go on for so many years that he and his family had an entire empire and never ran into anyone stronger.
Re: So in retrospect Freeza during Namek wasn't all that str
This can really be said about ANY ongoing media like this, especially one as long running as Dragon Ball.
First, Vegeta hyped himself up as the "Strongest in the Universe". Then Goku beat him, and then Toriyama needed a new big bad. If Goku is strong enough to beat Vegeta, the new Big Bad has to be much stronger or the story won't feel like it has any stakes. Boom, you get it retconned that the stuff Vegeta said was all ego and bluffing and Freeza is the real "Strongest in the Universe" and was built up as this supreme threat because... that makes it more dramatic and fun to read. If Goku just curbstomped Freeza in 5 minutes, it wouldn't have been interesting. Having it take effort and require a dramatic last minute transformation to beat him definitely ups the wow factor
After Goku beats Freeza tho, since the story went on, they needed to make the new big bads stronger because, again, if Goku can beat Freeza now, a bad guy that doesn't Dwarf Freeza isn't exciting to read about.
To his credit tho, Toriyama (And Toei I guess) did a fairly decent job of explaining why the new threats after Freeza were stronger yet didn't stand up to him.
Cyborgs/Cell - Creations made on Earth not created or at least released until after Gero had data and DNA of Freeza to work with to make sure his creations were stronger.
Boo - Being sealed away due to being uncontrollable. Was therefore not an active threat during Freeza's Rule
Beers - Portrayed as being so strong that to some extent, he was apathetic towards Freeza. He clearly knew Freeza was a thing, and even mused the concept of stopping Freeza, but apparently didn't care enough to make this a priority and instead, went into one of his naps/hibernations instead.
All the Universe 6 Guys - From a completely different universe. Entirely unable to become involved.
Toriyama/Toei even came up with an excuse for why Freeza could potentially be strong enough to be a threat Post Boo and Battle of Gods with the whole "His Strength in the Namek/Pre Cyborg Arc was his base strength without any training" stuff so they could make him a threat again for the Movie/Super Arc.
To sum up, it's not really strange at all.
Everybody stronger than Freeza during his rule either didn't exist yet (Cell), Were incapacitated and unable to intervene (Boo) or partially apathetic to his rule (Beers)
First, Vegeta hyped himself up as the "Strongest in the Universe". Then Goku beat him, and then Toriyama needed a new big bad. If Goku is strong enough to beat Vegeta, the new Big Bad has to be much stronger or the story won't feel like it has any stakes. Boom, you get it retconned that the stuff Vegeta said was all ego and bluffing and Freeza is the real "Strongest in the Universe" and was built up as this supreme threat because... that makes it more dramatic and fun to read. If Goku just curbstomped Freeza in 5 minutes, it wouldn't have been interesting. Having it take effort and require a dramatic last minute transformation to beat him definitely ups the wow factor
After Goku beats Freeza tho, since the story went on, they needed to make the new big bads stronger because, again, if Goku can beat Freeza now, a bad guy that doesn't Dwarf Freeza isn't exciting to read about.
To his credit tho, Toriyama (And Toei I guess) did a fairly decent job of explaining why the new threats after Freeza were stronger yet didn't stand up to him.
Cyborgs/Cell - Creations made on Earth not created or at least released until after Gero had data and DNA of Freeza to work with to make sure his creations were stronger.
Boo - Being sealed away due to being uncontrollable. Was therefore not an active threat during Freeza's Rule
Beers - Portrayed as being so strong that to some extent, he was apathetic towards Freeza. He clearly knew Freeza was a thing, and even mused the concept of stopping Freeza, but apparently didn't care enough to make this a priority and instead, went into one of his naps/hibernations instead.
All the Universe 6 Guys - From a completely different universe. Entirely unable to become involved.
Toriyama/Toei even came up with an excuse for why Freeza could potentially be strong enough to be a threat Post Boo and Battle of Gods with the whole "His Strength in the Namek/Pre Cyborg Arc was his base strength without any training" stuff so they could make him a threat again for the Movie/Super Arc.
To sum up, it's not really strange at all.
Everybody stronger than Freeza during his rule either didn't exist yet (Cell), Were incapacitated and unable to intervene (Boo) or partially apathetic to his rule (Beers)
"FUNi should take [DBZ] out behind the woodshed, give it one last treat, then blow its f%#@$ng brains out before it attacks the baby again." ~Rocketman
Re: So in retrospect Freeza during Namek wasn't all that str
Power levels in Dragon Ball are broken and Freeza is the biggest offender. He was more than a thousand times stronger than his strongest underling, and yet was quickly superseded by future villains. Toriyama didn't put much thought into how this would affect his story, and we probably shouldn't either. There's simply no way to make sense out of the rapid increase in power levels that started on Namek.
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Favorite Shows: Cardcaptor Sakura, Doctor Who, Wallace and Gromit, Wakfu, Yu Yu Hakusho
Favorite Manga: Fullmetal Alchemist, Hunter x Hunter, Dragon Ball
Augenis wrote:The power level view into the series has trained a significant portion of the fan base into real life stereotypical members of the Freeza empire, where each and every individual is reduced to a floating number above their heads and any sudden changes to said number are met with shock and confusion.
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Re: So in retrospect Freeza during Namek wasn't all that str
True, while technically a retcon, it's not out of character for Vegeta to boast.Boom, you get it retconned that the stuff Vegeta said was all ego and bluffing and Freeza is the real "Strongest in the Universe" and was built up as this supreme threat because... that makes it more dramatic and fun to read.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
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Re: So in retrospect Freeza during Namek wasn't all that str
I guess the galaxy was big enough were he never had to encounter someone stronger, until he did.
I'm sure other beings existed such as Dabura and Buu that were stronger, but the galaxy was vast enough, and perhaps all stronger beings were content with their piece of the pie at the time.
Although not canon, but Soba existed on Yardrat, who apparently was stronger than Frieza.
Not all strong beings wish to further their strength and seek out other strong opponents.
Worse case scenario, destroy the planet from space, kill the super strong guy, continue to rule the galaxy.
I'm sure other beings existed such as Dabura and Buu that were stronger, but the galaxy was vast enough, and perhaps all stronger beings were content with their piece of the pie at the time.
Although not canon, but Soba existed on Yardrat, who apparently was stronger than Frieza.
Not all strong beings wish to further their strength and seek out other strong opponents.
Worse case scenario, destroy the planet from space, kill the super strong guy, continue to rule the galaxy.
Re: So in retrospect Freeza during Namek wasn't all that str
He was that strong. I think everyone who was stronger than him was special in some way. Ignoring the movies, let's do a run-down:
Goku and Vegeta, obtained Super Saiyan and fathered three Half-Saiyans, a race with supreme potential and genes. Pretty rare.
Piccolo, a Namekian who was called a genius. Had access to amazing training regiments and fused with the strongest Namekian Warrior. Very unlikely that another Namekian like Piccolo emerges.
Androids, well if in your suspension of disbelief you think Dr.Gero could create them, then they are reasonable.
Cell, the genetic dream includes Freeza's cells.
Dabra, he is a Demon King. That's special, I guess.
Kaioshin, God of Creation.
Beerus and Whis, God of Destruction and his attendant.
Boo, an ancient being who causes destruction when he's awake.
That's not a lot, all of them are justified. Freeza is kinda the same as Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo. An amazing prodigy, who is amazing for a "human". The rest are either Gods, Androids or Weird and rare creatures.
Goku and Vegeta, obtained Super Saiyan and fathered three Half-Saiyans, a race with supreme potential and genes. Pretty rare.
Piccolo, a Namekian who was called a genius. Had access to amazing training regiments and fused with the strongest Namekian Warrior. Very unlikely that another Namekian like Piccolo emerges.
Androids, well if in your suspension of disbelief you think Dr.Gero could create them, then they are reasonable.
Cell, the genetic dream includes Freeza's cells.
Dabra, he is a Demon King. That's special, I guess.
Kaioshin, God of Creation.
Beerus and Whis, God of Destruction and his attendant.
Boo, an ancient being who causes destruction when he's awake.
That's not a lot, all of them are justified. Freeza is kinda the same as Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo. An amazing prodigy, who is amazing for a "human". The rest are either Gods, Androids or Weird and rare creatures.
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Re: So in retrospect Freeza during Namek wasn't all that str
While Beerus and Whis being a thing is dumb, there's not a lot wrong with having some people more powerful than Freeza spread throughout the universe. He mostly stuck to one galaxy, and the number of people stronger than him, including the actual gods, is... what, a couple dozen? Including all the movies, Super, and filler? That's really not much.
1. Whis
2. Beerus [hibernating]
3. Hildegarn [sealed]
4. Buu [sealed]
5. Dabra [in another realm]
6. Bojack [sealed]
7. Broly [true power sealed]
8. Kaioshin
9-12. Bojack's henchmen [sealed]
13. Cooler
14. Freeza
If you include other universes, you can add Vados, Champa, and the five U6 fighters to the list (or just half of them, if you go by the manga; Botamo, Cabba, and Frost's first three forms are weaker than the base saiyans, who are still implied to be below Freeza; also Frost never uses his final form). If you include beings made after his death, add Androids 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, and 18, plus Cell and the seven Cell Juniors. We're still only dealing with 31-34 guys total, spread throughout the multiverse. Several of them are sealed and therefore not relevant. Nearly half of them didn't even exist while Freeza was ravaging the galaxy.
1. Whis
2. Beerus [hibernating]
3. Hildegarn [sealed]
4. Buu [sealed]
5. Dabra [in another realm]
6. Bojack [sealed]
7. Broly [true power sealed]
8. Kaioshin
9-12. Bojack's henchmen [sealed]
13. Cooler
14. Freeza
If you include other universes, you can add Vados, Champa, and the five U6 fighters to the list (or just half of them, if you go by the manga; Botamo, Cabba, and Frost's first three forms are weaker than the base saiyans, who are still implied to be below Freeza; also Frost never uses his final form). If you include beings made after his death, add Androids 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, and 18, plus Cell and the seven Cell Juniors. We're still only dealing with 31-34 guys total, spread throughout the multiverse. Several of them are sealed and therefore not relevant. Nearly half of them didn't even exist while Freeza was ravaging the galaxy.
This has been debunked before. He wasn't boasting to anyone. He was thinking to himself.ABED wrote:True, while technically a retcon, it's not out of character for Vegeta to boast.Boom, you get it retconned that the stuff Vegeta said was all ego and bluffing and Freeza is the real "Strongest in the Universe" and was built up as this supreme threat because... that makes it more dramatic and fun to read.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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Re: So in retrospect Freeza during Namek wasn't all that str
That's not debunked, it's not uncommon for people to lie to themselves.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.